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Author Topic: G5 UCE acting up..  (Read 5959 times)

mugwomp

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G5 UCE acting up..
« on: April 05, 2011, 08:11:07 PM »
Hey Guys, would like your expert opinions on an issue that came up on my 2010 G5 UCE. While riding today gave my baby some throttle and she hesitated, backfired a few times then died. Pushed her home & checked all the fuses and injector connections, all appeared ok. After she cooled down I could get her started at idle, but when I gave her throttle, she dies. Anyone have anything like this happen or what should I look for next? Appreciate 'cha in advance. Mugwomp
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 08:30:30 PM »
Could be lots of things.  Obvious thigns to check:  Does it have gas?  Any water in the gas?  Spark plug lead on tight?  Popt the gas cap and see if it will run, your vent might just be clogged.

You can ground the lead in the right tool box and read the codes by how many times the lights blink when you turn the ignition on.  If you can get the number of blinks I can check my manual and tell you what they mean.  The codes are also listed on some post here if you want to search.

Scott

GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 08:49:16 PM »
so that computer control rascal isn't flawless...have u een riding it all winter or is it the second or third time u taken it out?  did u changed out the plug?..as ducati scotty states, it could be a few things....spark and ignition being top of the agenda...let us know what u find..
Oh Magoo you done it again

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 09:00:17 PM »
Thanks Scott & GreenMachine...I've been riding it since Oct of last year when I picked her up from my dealer 280 miles from here. Gas is good, getting good spark...now that she's cooled down a little I can get it started and it idles, but when she gets a teensy throttle, she dies. I'll continue checking the obvious, but if anyone has any other ideas they would surely be welcomed! If all my limited knowledge fails I guess I can truck her up to Santa Fe, NM to the dealer Centaur Cycles (great people) and have them scratch their heads over it since she's got a lot of warranty left. (Just don't like the idea of spending $250 on gas to get her up there & back :'(
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t120rbullet

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 09:19:13 PM »
You can ground the lead in the right tool box and read the codes by how many times the lights blink when you turn the ignition on. 



On the G5 it's under the seat. Right on the connector that plugs into the ECU.

Here's the codes,
MIL BLINK CONTENT
Engine will start but not perform to its potential. MIL will glow continuous
LONG 0 SHORT 6 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 0 SHORT 9 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 1 Engine oil Temperature (TE) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 7 O2 Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 5 O2 Sensor heater circuit malfunctioning

Engine will NOT Start but will crank. MIL will glow continuous
LONG 1 SHORT 5 Rollover Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 3 Injector circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 7 Ignition Coil circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 1 Fuel Pump circuit malfunctioning
LONG 6 SHORT 6 Crankshaft position circuit malfunctioning
Testing Procedure using the Test pin in the vehicle
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mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 10:11:04 PM »
Thanks t120rbullet for that info...I'll see what she reads and at least either myself or the dealer will have a better idea on the cause :)
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singhg5

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 10:17:33 PM »
..now that she's cooled down a little I can get it started and it idles, but when she gets a teensy throttle, she dies. I'll continue checking the obvious, but if anyone has any other ideas they would surely be welcomed!

Your G5 dies if you give a little bit of throttle from idle.  Does the engine keep running if you give more than a little bit throttle, passing that throttle spot where it dies ?

If there is just a 'dead' spot between idle and good turn of throttle (without engine dying), you can slightly increase the idle speed - and then check it again.  A good and new spark plug may also be needed.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 10:31:46 PM by singhg5 »
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Chris-G5

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 10:25:34 PM »
Sorry to hear about your problem! As stated on CJs post, if there is a code stored the MIL light should stay on continuously when it is switched to run. If it comes on and goes off, there is most likely not a code stored. Can you hear the fuel pump come on and turn off when switched to run? Does it sound strong/even or irregular/erratic? Check battery voltage? if the battery voltage is too low the ECU can't "think". Sounds like it is starving for gas for some reason.

 Good luck!! Let us know what is found out.

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 11:00:56 PM »
Thanks singhg5 & Chris-G5...no dead spot in throttle...more and she still dies, idle speed fine (for me) put in a new plug with no difference. Fuel pump sings fine and light goes out like it's supposed to. Battery is fine....me thinks its a fuel/ecu issue. Going to make me a stiff drink, stroke the beard, scratch the bald spot and ponder. I honestly appreciate the brotherhood and knowledge from you Enfield Buddys. Will keep you posted on what's happening.
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singhg5

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 11:17:37 PM »
....me thinks its a fuel/ecu issue.

It can be a fuel or ecu issue - as you said.  

The service manual has a good list that may save you having to take it to dealer.  I am just listing them here so that you can go over your bike and see if it helps in any way.  Some have already been mentioned but here it goes  -

-  Low Idle RPM
- Fuel is stale
- Low Fuel Level
- Fuel Line Clogged
- Fuel Vent Clogged in fuel tank cap
- Insufficient fuel pump pressure
- Weak battery
- Loose Electrical connection
- Fouled Spark plug
- Loose Spark Plug Wire
- Loose or cracked throttle body to engine hose / air filter to throttle body
- Fuel injector partially blocked
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GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 11:33:15 PM »
this is where this ecu thing can get frustrating...i be looking for a loose connection...does taking the battery positive cable off for minute perform a reset of the ecu.....i'm thinking of a forced reboot but as u can c i own a iron but thinking of hard reboot of a cpu....
Oh Magoo you done it again

t120rbullet

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 11:45:14 PM »
this is where this ecu thing can get frustrating...i be looking for a loose connection...does taking the battery positive cable off for minute perform a reset of the ecu.....i'm thinking of a forced reboot but as u can c i own a iron but thinking of hard reboot of a cpu....

Disconnecting the battery will do nothing. The ECU is not a learning ECU it's fixed to do what it has to do so there is nothing stored to erase. You might find a bad ground wire though!

A loose connection to any of the sensors should show up with a code.


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GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 11:46:48 PM »
that answers that...
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2011, 11:56:41 PM »
On the G5 it's under the seat. Right on the connector that plugs into the ECU.

Oops!  Sorry I gave you the C5 location.  Still, see what it says.  It's easy to use and may answer your question right away.  EFI is great but one sensor goes out and the whole thing can die.

Scott

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2011, 01:27:37 PM »
Update on my G5 issues...Took her to the dealer 440mi round trip and left her with them. I received a call yesterday afternoon that they first looked at the obvious issues as I did. They finally found the green connector for the diagnostic test and it said a fault in the throttle body unit. The amperage checked out to book specs so the dealer was going to put a new ecu unit to see if it ran right. They thought the "brains" weren't telling the engine when to correctly send the spark. I'll keep you all posted on when and what corrects the issue. Again I appreciate your input. They also had two new black 5's there...sweet lookers!
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Sub

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2011, 02:35:20 PM »
Thanks for the update, its good to keep tabs on these things. Keep up posted!

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2011, 05:02:10 PM »
OK, another update...dealer called and said RE suggested changing out the crankshaft location sensor located in the stator/alternator. Seems they think the crankshaft sensor is not telling the ignition when to fire at the proper sequence. They have one coming in under warranty and will let me know if this solves the problem. I understand mechanical issues, but when you start in with electronics & computer brains I'm glad she's still in warranty and the technical gurus are on our side! I'll keep you all posted on if this solves the problem and when I'm back in the wind again.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 05:33:48 PM »
Swapping a sensor is way easier than rebuilding a carburetor.  If you understand the electronic systems they're actually faily simple.  Don't be afraid of the dark.

Scott

cyrusb

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 07:21:32 PM »
Swapping a sensor is way easier than rebuilding a carburetor.  If you understand the electronic systems they're actually fairly simple.  Don't be afraid of the dark.

Scott
Agreed, but generally you will have a leatherman, and the carb in your hand. What's in your hand with the bad sensor? If your in the dark, place both hands there.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2011, 07:26:48 PM »
Too true.  It's never a side of the road fixe with a sensor or the like.  :D

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2011, 08:57:56 PM »
OK, another update...dealer called and said RE suggested changing out the crankshaft location sensor located in the stator/alternator. Seems they think the crankshaft sensor is not telling the ignition when to fire at the proper sequence. They have one coming in under warranty and will let me know if this solves the problem. I understand mechanical issues, but when you start in with electronics & computer brains I'm glad she's still in warranty and the technical gurus are on our side! I'll keep you all posted on if this solves the problem and when I'm back in the wind again.

Oh! - You MUST keep us up on THIS one .....  ;) I think the "parts shovel" is being applied here ..... not that this is a bad thing for YOU under the warranty - it's just a curious way to search for a problem ....  ::)
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singhg5

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2011, 12:32:02 AM »
Swapping a sensor is way easier than rebuilding a carburetor.  If you understand the electronic systems they're actually faily simple.  Don't be afraid of the dark.

I have had a different experience - here it goes.

Electronic diagnosis is not always straight forward 'no brainer' thingy, because there are situations when it can mislead. It may work fine in certain circumstances but in other situations only an intelligent, knowledgeable and experienced mechanic can override the computer generated 'diagnosis' with his judgement to arrive at the heart of the problem.  

The diagnostic codes do not distiguish between the dysfunction of electronic component from the dysfunction of attached mechanical component - which may really be the cause why the electronic part did not work in the first place. So a diagnostic code is good only if there is no mechanical or wiring problem.

Seen it happen with my car - the diagnosis code only identified the symptom and the auto mechanic wanted hundreds of dollars to fix it  - he was saying it is in the code !  But another auto worker understood that the real issue was different and it was very simple to solv, that costed only pennies !

My take is, that if all the symptoms, observations point to the same thing and fully match with diagnosis code, then it can be helpful - but if there can be another explanation or possible cause that can explain symptoms then the diagnosis code may or may not be reliable.  Then "parts shovel" becomes the MO (modus operandi) leading to replacing one part and then the other.  

I hope that Mugwomp is riding his bike soon with a grin back on his face.  
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 03:08:24 AM by singhg5 »
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GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2011, 01:03:53 AM »
no problem with changing a electronic part but if that doesn't fix it..put the original part back in and don't charge me for a part i didn't need...not like any of us have a stock of ecu's and assorted sensors to troubleshoot in that way...of course understanding the error code should point a observant technician to the specific device and/or devices  causing the problem..some good test equipment and a desire to learn the fundamentals is essential in the endeavor..  what would they pay someone who specializes in motorcycle electronics? can u make a living repairing these things or is the money with BMW and Newer Harley's?  U get what u pay for....
Oh Magoo you done it again

Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2011, 03:15:44 AM »
Yes, those are the unfortunate bits.  Swapping parts instead of trying an adjustment can be annoying and electrical problems are always the intermittent ones, and now you've got more electrical.  Still, the whole loop is a fairly simple system and if you know a bit about it and can read trouble codes it's usually a quick fix.  But when it gets weird it does get really weird.  I've adapted from my old carb/magneto days.  Different systems, same level of frustration at times :P

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2011, 11:41:28 AM »
Carbs and magnetos can be frustrating as well .... I have one of each in the private museum driving me mad right now! Hahaha! The thing with the Enfield's EFI system is usually two-fold. ONE is that the actual parts are almost bomb-proof - that is the first assumption that must be made when diagnosing them. Two - using a DVOM (digital volt-ohm meter) is the ONLY way you are REALLY going to figure out anything with the system. Since you can't see, hear, taste or touch electricity unless something is horrible wrong, you must QUANTIFY its existence with a good meter ..... and numbers don't lie. It'll be interesting to see what the problem really is on this one ......
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2011, 12:47:16 PM »
Bob is absolutely correct on all counts.Once a suspect circuit is identified it is a good idea to voltage drop the wiring with an 1157 bulb.Even a wire with good continuity can break down under load.

GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2011, 02:57:57 PM »
and those wires in most cases are very tiny and just asking for it ;D
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2011, 06:05:06 PM »
Good advice as well, ROVERMAN ...... ! I have the little "urban engineered" tool in my electrical box that uses two 1156 bulbs in series to smoke test a circuit .... rude, crude, simple .... but EFFECTIVE! You HAVE serviced a Jaguar (Jag-you-ARE) before, haven't you! Hahaha!  ;)
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2011, 06:31:16 PM »
@mugwomp- I have seen this kind of problem before on a C5 and this is how it was resolved so it might help or work in your case;

1. Remove the crank position sensor/pulsar coil from the cover housing
2. You will see a metal strip on the bottom of the sensor, use a file to grind the base a bit gently.
3. Assemble everything back and see if this works

Reason behind this as I was told was that the magnet in the sensor can get weak due to metal particles sticking onto it/ sensor not aligned properly.




perri

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2011, 07:09:09 PM »
rollover sensor?
c5 2009 italy

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2011, 12:30:35 PM »
Sorry SB i missed your reply,too busy trying to fix Land Rovers/Jag's! Yeah you hit that bugger of a nail right on it's head! ::) ::) ::)
Robert & REnfield.

Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2011, 05:10:37 PM »
Following all this with interest.  I have remarked earlier (and SB seems to verify my perception) that the machanicals of the RE are far more hardy than the electicals ----I still think vibration of an unbalnced single a may play havoc with small wires and connections,----and that the on board diagnostics are only really useful with intact wiring. As has also pointed out, when stranded these aren't road side fixes , especially for the electronically naive.  All of which leads me to the conclusion that RE needs to rethink their wiring harness, upgrade wire calibres. put in qualty control steps to check routing for "pinch points" possibly add protective sleeves to protect wiring at susceptable areas   , better beefed up  connectors, factory soldered splices ,  possibly even plan in redundancy in wirng paths IF they want to gain the reuputation for reliability and longevity that Siddhartha Lal says they aspire too.  Make the Bullet "Bulllet Proof"  and it will sell like hotcakes. It has so much going for it besides the cool factor, and so much effort has been make to assemble the right bits and pieces (which by all accounts they have done) , these would be VERY CHEAP AND COST EFFECTIVE FACTORY MEASURES to protect their investment.  The devil is in the details.  How do we feed back this valuable "field testing" information to the manufacturer?  And if electricls are plagueing the bikes here on good roads in a dry climate, what the heck is happening in India with bad roads and monsoons?   Nigel

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2011, 05:28:54 PM »
can't argue your points on the electrics...In the backwater of India, their is always someone available to piecemeal it back and get u on your way...That doesn't mean it will be a better fix than what u are alluring too....Vibtration and pounding isn't a good mix for any eletrical or electronic devices and their associated  infrastructure...I accept the karma of the situation and wait my turn into the unknown prevailing winds...
Oh Magoo you done it again

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2011, 05:37:04 PM »
In the meantime, inspect your own harness for pinch points and re-route as needed.  On the C5 there's one at the rear of the tanks where it crosses a gold bracket.  Also, get some di-electric grease for the connectors to help prevent corrosion.  The RE is a great bike but requires a little polish and TLC after it leaves the factory to finish it.

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2011, 07:38:32 PM »
Following all this with interest.  I have remarked earlier (and SB seems to verify my perception) that the machanicals of the RE are far more hardy than the electicals ----I still think vibration of an unbalnced single a may play havoc with small wires and connections,----and that the on board diagnostics are only really useful with intact wiring. As has also pointed out, when stranded these aren't road side fixes , especially for the electronically naive.  All of which leads me to the conclusion that RE needs to rethink their wiring harness, upgrade wire calibres. put in qualty control steps to check routing for "pinch points" possibly add protective sleeves to protect wiring at susceptable areas   , better beefed up  connectors, factory soldered splices ,  possibly even plan in redundancy in wirng paths IF they want to gain the reuputation for reliability and longevity that Siddhartha Lal says they aspire too.  Make the Bullet "Bulllet Proof"  and it will sell like hotcakes. It has so much going for it besides the cool factor, and so much effort has been make to assemble the right bits and pieces (which by all accounts they have done) , these would be VERY CHEAP AND COST EFFECTIVE FACTORY MEASURES to protect their investment.  The devil is in the details.  How do we feed back this valuable "field testing" information to the manufacturer?  And if electricls are plagueing the bikes here on good roads in a dry climate, what the heck is happening in India with bad roads and monsoons?   Nigel

Brilliant post, Nigel, you said it all. Let's hope this board is monitored by those that can change things and I would think that it is. In two years of following this board I am hard pushed to think of a single mechanical failure other than the recent post of WillW which is as yet not concluded. On the other hand there have been numerous non starts until the headlamp wires were jiggled, the sidestand switch cleaned, (better still disabled), the starter relay hit with a hammer and on and on they go. Minor in the grand scheme of things, incredibly irritating when you just want to be going somewhere. Nylon threads on the battery clamps plus everything else you list: very cheap and cost effective to fix - spot on!

singhg5

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2011, 11:02:49 PM »
Brilliant post, Nigel, you said it all. Let's hope this board is monitored by those that can change things and I would think that it is. In two years of following this board I am hard pushed to think of a single mechanical failure other than the recent post of WillW which is as yet not concluded. On the other hand there have been numerous non starts until the headlamp wires were jiggled, the sidestand switch cleaned, (better still disabled), the starter relay hit with a hammer and on and on they go. Minor in the grand scheme of things, incredibly irritating when you just want to be going somewhere. Nylon threads on the battery clamps plus everything else you list: very cheap and cost effective to fix - spot on!

For the most part, the export bikes (US, UK etc) have done quite well. There were a few mechanical issues that occurred early on. These include - 1) a few cases of frame-related instability of C5s in US and also in India;  2)  sprag breakdowns in UK and more so in India.  In both these situations, RE India responded to eliminate the root cause of the problems. They took care of frame issues of C5 and introduced new sturdier sprags in the latter bikes.

The more recent electrical wiring problems have started to come up with the passage of time. If RE India is made aware of these issues and given some simple ideas to fix them, they can implement these suggestions to make bikes more reliable. The US and UK importers of these bikes can easily convey these issues to RE India for proper solutions.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:08:00 PM by singhg5 »
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clubman

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2011, 07:56:06 AM »
You are absolutely right, Singh, and having had two sprag clutches replaced myself I should have known better!  :) Somehow, my definition of mechanical failure had narrowed to valve train, bore and bottom end. But, as you say, RE responded to that with an upgrade and let's hope it's sorted. I've only done a couple of thousand miles with the new part so I'm not willing to say yet but fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 07:58:33 AM by clubman »

Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2011, 10:33:57 AM »
Gentlemen:   I ask this without reference to a bike to look at, so bear with me if the question seems stupid.    The smaller  wires that are commonly breaking, (neutral light indicator, side stand safety shut off switch are two that come to mind)   Are these single strand core or multistrand braided wires, copper or aluminium, and where in general with respect to their points of fixation do they break  -near one end or the the other, in the middle  where they turn sharp angles to emerge from under a casing or navigate a corner, etc,  or at a point of friction with some "hard" part -frame or other metal part.? 
  I know there have also been battery ground cable failures -are these at the point of fixation of the braided rope cable to the terminal lug?   And is the main wiring harness a flat automotive type wiring setup with conductive elements running side by side in a flexible flat ribbon, or is it a round profile running the length of the bike?  If found, cloth wrapped or plastic molded?   The answers to these questions may point the way to some very simple solutions.     Another thought I keep coming to is that wires (especially single strand) , or any structure for that mater, tend to break (under repeated cycles of movement) at the points of junction between fixed and mobile segments, or also at points where the calibre changes.  Tapered sleeves of rubber molding to support the wires where they take off from a point of fixation may help disperse the flexing forces caused by vibration and spread it out over a longer segment of the wire leading to reduced likelihood of failure.  The standard kinds of wiring and attachment used in stationary appliances clearly wont stand up to road bumps and especially not to the constant vibration of a single cylinder motorcycle. over time.  Nigel

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2011, 02:22:47 PM »
nigel: good point..i haven't notice but then again I haven't experienced what some of u guys have had to put up with..I did notice when I took off my taillight that the wiring although working looked bodged up and I'm going to assume that most of the wiring is done in a similiar manner,,,u would think they used a multistrand copper wire that would hold up to the 1 cylinder pounding that the enfield produces...Obviously a single strand solid  wire would be a recipe for disaster...Alot of the problems may not even be the wire itself but as u have suggested the human element of puttting it together and the extra care of tidying, leaving enough in place to stretch properly. clearance issues, heat shrinking ends and connections...proper solder joints/cable connections, etc......sure a size up on gauge would be nice too. now u have afraid to look inside back behind my torch....i hear that's a rat nest....
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2011, 04:19:18 PM »
I took mine in yesterday for some warranty issues. The main one was the battery cable/solenoid assembly. It was replaced by a completely different piece. I think this is the "upgrade". It sure is beefier looking. Someone is listening.

Dan

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2011, 10:23:38 PM »
sounds like u have a dealer who has his head screwed on and see this as a new opportunity to get into something different...
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2011, 11:20:39 PM »
i'm still looking at the RE. the points nigel brings up are valid. i have a KLR650 that is neither a very refined machine or one that is not subjected to vibrations. i have had no electrical (or any other) issues with the bike in 3 years and 22000 miles. is the supplier for the RE wiring delievering a sub-standard product to india for the sake of saving a few dollars. or are these problems just magnified because the rest of the bike performes so well.
Joe
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2011, 11:28:48 PM »
I took mine in yesterday for some warranty issues. The main one was the battery cable/solenoid assembly. It was replaced by a completely different piece. I think this is the "upgrade". It sure is beefier looking. Someone is listening.

Dan:

What does it look like - need a picture. Can you post it so I can see what it looks like ?  And also if you know anything about how is it different internally or voltage ?
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2011, 01:32:29 AM »
It is a separate relay with cables bolted to it. Standard bullet connector the part I soldered. It is pretty well hidden. Hope these help.

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2011, 02:32:46 PM »
I took mine in yesterday for some warranty issues. The main one was the battery cable/solenoid assembly. It was replaced by a completely different piece. I think this is the "upgrade". It sure is beefier looking. Someone is listening.

Dan

Dan, any idea what part number or warranty number?  Just looking to get some reference for my mechanic since I've either got a solenoid or battery issue and we're leaning toward solenoid right now.

Thanks,

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2011, 04:27:11 PM »
Scott, I just checked the receipt but it was just for the service not the repairs. They said they were going to mail me the paperwork for the warranty work. I'm sure Al can get you that info.

The parts look fairly generic. They add two terminals that are exposed to the elements vs a sealed unit but it allows you to jump/bypass the relay for testing. Also allows you to replace a bad cable or relay separately.

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2011, 04:44:12 PM »
That's Al @ BMW Fresno, right?  I'll give him a call later.

Thanks,

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2011, 05:17:15 PM »
The factory sees each and every warranty claim. When there is something that looks really odd or seems to be a trend we also follow up with them. These things are handled in a couple of different way.
1. Is it really an issue or is it a one off or a failure that cannot be documented. We see some of this although not as often as you might think. It is a dealer problem or a PDI problem or is it a really problem.

2. If it is a real issue the factory will start the process of looking at it. They will dissect the problem and the engineers will propose a solution. It will then be tested  if that goes well it will be put into effect as a running upgrade. The factory has quality teams that list issues, put them in priority and then solve them. The hardest thing to do is to quantify the nature and scope of the problem.

3. The solutions can be simple or complex. Often times it is as simple as working with a vendor or the materials department, sometimes it is a complete engineering rework. The starter solenoid and the sidestand switch are two examples. Both are suppler problems with a design element also involved.

4. The solenoid issue is normally made worse by excessive cranking of the engine. The sidestand switch can be weak and also and could also could be subject to an installation design switch.

5. In the case of the solenoid when we get a warranty claim (US only) we send out an aftermarket unit that we found that will start a battleship. This is to make it better for the customer.

Royal Enfield is EXCELLENT when it comes to warranty coverage. As the importer I have a lot of latitude in terms of how we handle things. Unless it is obvious abuse, aftermarket FUBAR or some other thing that is not included in the warranty we generally take care of warranty quickly and easily. I can ONLY speak for the US. Your experience in other countries will and publicly does vary. Royal Enfield backs up our business practices here quite well.

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2011, 05:44:55 PM »
Kevin,

I can't tell where Scott is from but I would think he is still covered by the warranty. He also hasn't determined if it is the battery, solenoid or sidestand switch from what I have read here.

As always I am very impressed by you and the folks in Fresno!
 ;D

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2011, 05:50:00 PM »
Yup, I'm under warranty and I'm in Portland, OR.  Kevin, is there any info I can give to Justin and Pedro so they know what to ask you for on this?  They hadn't heard of any warranty work for the solenoids.

Thanks,

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2011, 06:55:53 PM »
Kevin, thanks for chiming in. Thats been my experience with repairs/issues so far. Thank you.

I forget, is our warranty just one year or two years in the US? Its a scary prospect of going out of warranty on a bike as unreliable as this one. I'm just bringing my bike into the dealer with a pretty good list of things to fix, mostly electrical, but one of which almost left me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

If you really have trust in the quality of this brand, please consider extending these warranties! :)

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2011, 07:24:29 PM »
Get some miles on the bike and don't worry.  It seems all the minor issues come up sooner so you should be able to get anything sorted under warranty.  The warranty is 2 years and unlimited mileage, IIRC.

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2011, 03:01:59 AM »
Hurrah Gentlemen!!! Picked up my Baby today ('twas Good Friday)...all seems well with the total warranty crankshaft positioner sensor (which is attatched to the stator as one unit) replaced within a working week. She Runs Again. Excellent NM dealer (Centaur Cycles in Santa Fe NM) said dist. tech rep (Kevin or his friends) had only heard of this 3-4 times. Totally satisfied with a quick trip around town (Will let you all know after a couple o hundred miles more) No problems with warranty work from RE. Yeah I can chime in on the teensy wiring, but she doesn't cost as much as other bikes, and she has heritage and quite good looking I might add. Thanks again Fellows for all your advice and knowledge....this is a Great Community. Happy Easter Ya'll
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2011, 10:36:21 PM »
Hurrah Gentlemen!!! Picked up my Baby today ('twas Good Friday)...all seems well with the total warranty crankshaft positioner sensor (which is attatched to the stator as one unit) replaced within a working week.

@Mugwomp:

Great to hear that you have your grin back on the face ;D.  

So it was the crankshaft position sensor that was not working - as was pointed by SSR of the Forum.  Was it the sensor or the wire that was broken ? Do you know what caused it ?  

They finally found the green connector for the diagnostic test and it said a fault in the throttle body unit.

The amperage checked out to book specs so the dealer was going to put a new ecu unit to see if it ran right. They thought the "brains" weren't telling the engine when to correctly send the spark.

Didn't the dealer earlier say that there was fault in throttle body (TPS) based on diagnostic codes. Did he read the diagnostic code correctly ?

Was the diagnostic code misleading ?

Then they also suggested ECU was problem.  So it was trial and error that lead to solve the problem.  May be they read the post of SSR on this Forum that prompted them to look at the crank position sensor !  
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 11:43:33 PM by singhg5 »
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2011, 01:16:10 AM »
Hey singhg5 they said the sensor was faulty...a small plug in unit but it's attatched to the stator and it only comes as a unit...wires weren't broken so I guess it was just the sensor. The brain first said the throttle body sensor, but when the amperage was tested and correct tech support said they thought it was the crank position sensor. Don't know if the diagnostic code was misleading or what. Just glad she's still under warranty. Ride Safe Ya'll.
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2011, 11:56:54 PM »
I trust as with a lot of forums I am on / have been on from HD to BMW to Porsche - you tend to hear a lot about the problems . Having just gotten my C_5 I really hope the bike is more reliable than you would be led to believe reading some of these posts!

Then again on the BMW coupe forum there were 45 posts on the "stubby antenna install" that my 4 year old grandson could do blindfolded  :o
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2011, 12:20:00 AM »
Having just gotten my C_5 I really hope the bike is more reliable than you would be led to believe reading some of these posts!

@drbvac:

Welcome to the Forum.

Many bikes are running quite well without any problem at all or only minor 'stuff' that does not necessarily require a mechanic to fix it !  Don't worry or lose sleep.
 
One reason that you see these detailed posts and issues is because for most of RE owners there are no near by dealers or proper mechanics to help. The Forum members discuss and share their experiences and they do their own maintenance to a large extent or as much as they can.  Also RE owners tend to become sort-of-mechanics, that is the heritage of this bike - Making mechanics out of riders for the last hundred years  ;D !

However, these bikes are not Hondas.  They require some TLC (tender loving care).  Just go through the general maintenance tips and schedules that are posted here and follow them. These include - lube cables, lube joints, lube chain, change oil and filter frequently, rust prevention application with ACF50, keep proper tyre pressure, keep battery fully charged, tighten ALL the nuts and bolts for the first few months (this is really important).  Also - do not lug engine, and do not over heat the engine - take breaks to cool off engine if riding long distance.

Keep on riding with a grin on the face until something happens - and then you can worry  ;) !
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 12:50:54 AM by singhg5 »
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2011, 01:44:30 PM »
I thought as much and am already into it - half the fun of riding is knowing your bike like the back of your hand - I dont trust any machine I cant fix or have no idea how it works = my old 63 volkswagon - all you needed was a hammer and a scredriver and a pair of vice grips to fix almost anything.

Thats why I detest electrical problems  ???
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2011, 07:18:48 PM »
 >:( Well Crap! Took the baby for a ride this morning and about 3 miles of her running great, she just died like I hit the kill switch or turned the ignition off!!! No backfire this time, just died :( The kill switch works (no fuel pump singing with it off, turn it on and the pump sings like she should) Guess I'll call the dealer tomorrow when they open and probably make another 450 mile round trip. A little disheartening to say the least.
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2011, 07:29:44 PM »
so much for the sensor...just maybe its something else  but then again sounds like same symptoms....geeze 450 miles round trip...there goes your day....might ask them to drive it around fopr a week  and see if the problem rears its ugly head after they fix it....
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2011, 07:45:36 PM »
You betcha GreenMachine, whenever they  get it fixed again I'll ask them to put 5-10 miles on her rather than a trip around the block to make sure it's healed. I love how light and nimble she is wheeling around the garage, but she sure shows her weight after pushing her uphill for 8 blocks :P Guess when I get her back I'll ride uphill the first few times so if she dies I can at least coast home ;D
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2011, 08:07:44 PM »
And for all our sakes please let us know what it is - I hate electronics - if its any question at all about the ECU get them to change it = computers work or they dont and they usually work and work and work but when they break - chuck em.
Dr B

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2011, 07:28:55 PM »
Well, my dealer let me know they will ship another crankshaft positioner sensor(attatched to the stator of course) along with a wiring harness as they thought there might be a screwed up connection somewhere. I checked the engine diagnosis green wire and it still shows 6 long and 6 short blinks indicating the crankshaft sensor failure. Either way I am glad RE stands behind their warranties and my dealer is eager to get the problem solved. (Just wish I didn't have to do another 460 mile round trip twice to get her there and then pick her up :()
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2011, 08:07:38 PM »
Tell them to have one of the techs dirve it home and back for three days after they fix it.  And make sure it's the same tech so you get one person with some real miles on it.  Who would turn down a free RE for a few days?  In that time I'm sure they'd notice anything out of order.  It's worth a few more miles on the odometer to know it's sorted ;)

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2011, 04:53:54 PM »
>:( Well Crap! Took the baby for a ride this morning and about 3 miles of her running great, she just died like I hit the kill switch or turned the ignition off!!! No backfire this time, just died :( The kill switch works (no fuel pump singing with it off, turn it on and the pump sings like she should) Guess I'll call the dealer tomorrow when they open and probably make another 450 mile round trip. A little disheartening to say the least.

@Mugwomp:

What is the condition of your bike ?  Is it up and running or you are waiting for some parts ?
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2011, 03:02:34 PM »
Update....My dealer called yesterday and all the warranty parts have arrived. (They ordered a new crankshaft position sensor, wiring harness, throttle sensor & ecu!!) They really want this issue outa their hair & I as well. RE really responds to warranty work and they want satisfied customers....best advertising is word of mouth! Taking her up Friday morning....will keep you all posted on the outcome. Appreciate everyone's interest and suggestions.
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2011, 03:31:58 PM »
yes indeed we thought u were out of the woods the first time...hope they can pin it down to something specific vice just changing out everything at once and it works..guess u be happy either way and wouldn't care as long as its fixed....cheers
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2011, 08:16:07 PM »
I'm betting even if they just change out everything, ALL those parts are going back to the factory to find the culprit.

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2011, 03:40:51 AM »
This sounds like the same problem I'm having. I've found that when I'm riding, as soon as I hear the sputtering noise if I pull in on the clutch a little and give it some throttle, it will keep running and not cut out. It mostly happens in 1st and 2nd and sometimes 3rd. Not very fun when I'm riding, if I don't catch it at the right time my engine cuts out and I'm gliding to the side of the road.

What is the general consensus? Do you think it might be the same problem, should I try to replace the crankshaft position sensor?

mugwomp, any updates from the dealer? I feel your frustration, I haven't been able to ride my bike on the road for a week because I can't trust it in the heavy Hawaii traffic here.
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2011, 08:10:43 AM »
This sounds like the same problem I'm having. I've found that when I'm riding, as soon as I hear the sputtering noise if I pull in on the clutch a little and give it some throttle, it will keep running and not cut out.

Just wondering if that cut out switch at the clutch lever might be playing up? Mine has refused to start a few times even when definitely in neutral and pulling the clutch in solves the problem. Unfortunately you can't just disconnect the switch like you can the sidestand cut out; for the bike to start you have to short it. I'm leaving it till the next service as my electrical abilities are so poor. 

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2011, 04:23:24 PM »
Well, here's another update. Took her to the dealer 5/6 when the warranty parts all arrived and asked them to take their time. (spring time and they are extremely busy getting scooters serviced and the like) Called a week later and they said all they found was a fouled plug??? Replaced it and she started fine, drove it around the block a few times but wanted to keep her over the weekend & put some miles on her to be sure I wouldn't have to make the trip again. Called yesterday and they said they drove her just a couple of miles and same thing happened...just died. They're going to charge the battery up or put a new one they have as a spare to make sure all the electronics are getting enough juice. Told them I'm glad I wasn't crazy and doubted a fouled plug was the issue (I already changed it out with no difference) I've heard a weak battery or a bad cell can cause all sorts of problems with the electrics. I'm glad the problem reared it's head for them as well as me. They told me that the diagnostics mode I was seeing..6 long & 6 short blinks would show up as the last error because I guess you need a $2000 computer to reset the code which they don't have...anyone else heard of this? We'll see what happens next and will keep ya'll posted...sure glad this happened under warranty  7mths in, 3000 miles and glad I've got other bikes to ride......just want my baby back & running!
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2011, 09:28:04 PM »
what a mess...they should just a put a new battery and be done with that and keep it for a few days and ride it to see if if indeed the battery is kaput...i wouldn't pick it up till it was fixed....what would be the point to bring it home if it doesn't measure up....
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2011, 09:52:14 PM »
Have they checked the charging system and battery?

Scott

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2011, 10:41:03 PM »
GM & DS, I would hope so....I'm really interested in where the gremlin lies.
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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2011, 11:20:50 PM »
wasn;t this the original problem a while back..u get to the point as a consumer , where part replacement is synonymous to I'm not sure what the problem is or i don;t really understand how to fix the problem or combination of both.. granted, the balls in their court as its under warranty...Right?  If it was my bike, i would check the battery first, fuel system  second  , coil output, and electrical associated with maintaining spark and battery replenishment third..generic terms here but a bike that starts and just dies going down the road after 5-10 min should be able to be fixed in a reasonable amount of time unless its heat related  ....wasn't  scooterbob saying that the dealers don;t have the exspensive diagnostic reader to read the codes,  reset the cpu and/or reload as its  not necessary as they should be able to analyze the problem and if they are having problems beyond their expertise they can call CMW who will work with them in analyzing the problem if its cpu related...i'm just spouting here but i thought their was a short discussion on the subject....its not like they can't put a new cpu if thats the culprit..
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gashousegorilla

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2011, 12:56:19 AM »
 You Don't need the expensive machine to read the codes, You may need one to clear them though. A long 6 and a short 6 is the crank position circuit. Curious as to why they would say it was an old Code? Did they just check the sensor, or the whole circuit?
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2011, 02:10:05 AM »
GM I agree, that's what I woud do GHG, I don't know...wish the dealer was closer so I could pick their brains or put all the parts on myself. This site is awesome and the knowledge amongst friends is  greatly appreciated.
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gashousegorilla

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2011, 02:20:47 AM »
mugwomp, did you have a problem with the crank sensor/ circuit before?.....When the bike cuts out on you, do you get a continuous glow in the engine light?   
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2011, 02:33:29 AM »
didn't they change the crank position circuit/sensor?..as what gashousegorila has suggested, maybe  they need to clear the code with the reader/analyzer or does it clear on its own assuming it was bad and replaced...this was done like a month ago and u brought it home...and did u see the error code right away at start up or does it show up as you are driving and then die... or does the code appear right after it dies?
after it dies and sit, does it start right back again and do the same thiing?  if anything we would have a record of what happens with the code you are seeing and the eventual  the fix for prosperity..iI the interfaceto  the cpu hardwired or are their actual connectors to it that could be taken off and put back on for connection verification.?
I'm not familiar with your machine and don't even know where the cpu is on the bike..just thinking of what i be looking at if I had it.. dam strange to change the crank position circuit and u get the same error message..maybe that code needs to be cleared and theirs another error code...will it show more than one error code at a time?   these are things that u guys need to find out anyway..
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gashousegorilla

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2011, 02:53:36 AM »
 Sorry, read back over the tread, and there was a previous issue with the crank sensor.  It looks like they replaced it, but not the harness yet.............and your still getting that code :-\   .........
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #80 on: May 19, 2011, 12:15:15 PM »
Yeah, from what I have been told, once you get a diagnostic code it has to be cleared with a special computer or it will continue to read out the previous fault code. Unfortunately most dealers don't have one. They replaced the crankshaft positioner sensor which is a plug in unit attatched to the stator. They have all the parts assumed to be faulty for replacement so hopefully all will be well eventually. Just curious as to the culprit. I understand mechanical issues, but when it comes to electrics I'm at a loss. I'll keep you all posted on the outcome. Thanks again!
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #81 on: May 19, 2011, 03:12:38 PM »
Bummer that you can't clear codes easily.  I had the diagnostic software for my Ducati from TechnoResearch, it was great.  You could read and clear codes, check all the engine info (temp, RPM), etc.  It was $200 and worth every penny.  I'd be glad to pay that for the RE software.

I also have a OBD2 scanner for my wife's POS Volvo.  That car throws codes so often I just leave it in there.

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singhg5

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #82 on: May 19, 2011, 04:18:18 PM »
Yeah, from what I have been told, once you get a diagnostic code it has to be cleared with a special computer or it will continue to read out the previous fault code. Unfortunately most dealers don't have one. They replaced the crankshaft positioner sensor which is a plug in unit attatched to the stator. They have all the parts assumed to be faulty for replacement so hopefully all will be well eventually. Just curious as to the culprit. I understand mechanical issues, but when it comes to electrics I'm at a loss. I'll keep you all posted on the outcome. Thanks again!

One thing that ScooterBob used to hammer again and again was that the parts are extremely high quality and seldom go wrong.  That seems to be the case here too.  Since the parts check out OK, when tested for their electronic function, and replacement of CPS (crank position sensor) does not change anything so the fault may not be the part itself.  This is where a good mechanic and dealer's knowledge of the product and experience comes into play to show their skill to identify the root cause of problem. It is like finding a good doctor or a dentist - not easy.
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GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #83 on: May 19, 2011, 04:24:15 PM »
that's why i not intersted in volvo or a Sabb...its was always a 1000 dollars to just about have them do anything of relevance on the newer machines...getting that way witht he domestic stuff too if not already...Good doctor...well maybe..usuallly they say its allergies or something else...by the time they ome to some kind of conclusion, the parties over and the treatment irrelevant...IMO..(thats for us paying customers)...
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2011, 05:49:27 PM »
I keep the OBD2 code scanner in my wife's Volvo.  Saves time from not having to go to the garage to get it all the time :)

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thefieldworker

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2011, 10:57:03 PM »
Mugwomp, any news? I think I've had the same problem as you; my dealer has been valiantly trying to fix the problem. I've driven it home a couple of times, only to have the problem happen after riding about 30 miles or so (a good part of the distance between my house and the dealer). My dealer thinks this time may reveal the issue, since the bike won't start at all now.

I've gotten to know the local U-haul dealer pretty well, with the number of times that I've rented a ramp trailer!

And no, he can't re-set the code.

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2011, 02:09:29 AM »
Finally got her back from the dealer 2 weeks ago and it seems the issue is solved! They put in a new ecu & injector to no avail. After she died completly they tracked the problem to the negative wire on the coil that was chafed inside the wiring harness. A month at the dealer who pulled most of his hair out over this issue. Wish RE would use a thicker gauge on all their wires and better connections. I've put about 100 miles on her and she is running like she's supposed to. It seems like most riders issues are solved by electrical problems which can be difficult to trace down. Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions. Ride safe!
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GreenMachine

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2011, 02:29:31 AM »
okay caught up now..jeeze..alot of parts changing for a chaf wire inside a  wire harmess...i bet the dealer was pulling his hair out.a..alot of time spent for a  fifty cent piece of heat shrink.....glad to c u back on the road...
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thefieldworker

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2011, 03:34:40 AM »
Glad to hear your bike's back on the road. My own Bullet is still at the dealer's; the people in MN had him talking to an Indian engineer who I guess is visiting to help troubleshoot. I will pass on your dealer's solution. BTW, who is your dealer? It may help my dealer if he could connect directly to yours.

In the meanwhile, my NT700V has been my primary ride. No drama with the Honda, but not as sexy as the Bullet.

mugwomp

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2011, 01:47:42 PM »
I hear that, it's nice to have other rides while our babies are sick. My dealer is Centaur Cycles in Santa Fe, NM. Richard Meltz is the owner/operator and I'm sure he would be willing to talk to your dealer. (505) 471 5481. He had also consulted with Kevin @ CMW and they all had been in contact with an engineer from India. Good luck with getting yours back on the road.
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thefieldworker

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Re: G5 UCE acting up..
« Reply #90 on: June 27, 2011, 11:45:12 PM »
Thanks for the reply; I'll pass this on to Carl. Enjoy your G5!