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Author Topic: Worrying metal bits on drain plug  (Read 3957 times)

WillW

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Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« on: April 14, 2011, 04:19:17 PM »
A lot of metal on the drain plug magnet when I drianed the oil - both the main plug and the one with the filter.
These metal bits were stuck to the drain plug magnet too. The broken round thing is just under 1cm across.
Considering the noises coming from my engine, this is a worrying discovery..... :-\

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GreenMachine

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 04:30:58 PM »
wow.. yeah i be worried and be getting it to the dealer ( didn't u have something left on your warranty)...How do u feel about dealer support where u purchased the bike?
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WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 04:43:49 PM »
I'm into year two of the warranty - which apparently covers parts but not labour!
The dealer's been good so far - couple of minor warranty issues and the sprag clutch. I know they're new to RE (mine was one of the first they sold) and previously dealt only in cars. BUT they do have a workshop and a motorbike mechanic, so fingers crossed.

.....but I wish Scooter Bob was just down the road..... :-\
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ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 04:57:10 PM »
The boogered bit on the left worries me ... I swear I've seen that part in it's non mangles form somewhere - but a check of the parts pictures doesn't come up with anything that jumps out at me ..... I'd be taking that little mill apart to see what's broken in it - and right away. That sort of "junque" on the magnets is bad, bad, BAD! Wow ...... !
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WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 05:09:34 PM »
Yeah it doesn't look good. I remember the very first time I changed the oil there was a little tiny bit of what seemd to be hollow pin - about 1.5mm in diameter and 5mm long, broken off something longer by the look of it. I intended to keep it to show the dealer, but dropped it and of course it vanished into the next dimension....
Subsequent oil changes have just shown a bit of metal dust on the magnets.
I guess I'll call tomorrow and see if they'll come and pick it up - I'm not really inclined to ride it, even slowly, now I know something is busted in there!
I am tempted to pull it apart myself, but it is still under warranty (albeit 2nd year) and I expect I'd find myself short of one or two vital tools...
Either way, looks like a big hit on the wallet!
Bugger it!  Just as summer is rolling in...... :(
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 05:32:05 PM »
I'm with you.  Don't ride it and talk to the dealer.  Bring the parts down, they might know what they are and be able to give you a better prognosis.  If not, ask what the first move is and how much it's likely to cost.  I do remember one poster saying that it was a remarkably short time it took hime to get the UCE engine out of the bike, on the bench, and have the piston and cylinder out.  It's a simple engine, it comes apart fast.

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 05:56:18 PM »
Dang, that looks double plus ungood to me, I hope it isn't to horrible to fix.
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 06:08:36 PM »
When I saw the thread title I thought it was just another noob stressing out over a little bit of magnetic shavings.

Uh, that picture makes it clear that something is amiss, especially if this is not the first time you have changed the oil. 

Get thee to a dealer, now! 

Good luck and please let us know what is discovered.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 06:44:36 PM »
I'm gonna take a guess.

Given your noises from the valve train on the exhaust side, and the looks of that round part, I would venture a guess that you have a failed hydraulic lifter on the exhaust side.

I'm not sure what that L-shaped broken part is, but the thing that looks like a broken-in-half washer could be part of the internals of a hydraulic lifter.
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WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 07:04:21 PM »
You may be right. The other bit is just a fragment - something in there is mangled. Whatever is wrong in there wasn't yet affecting the running - apart from the noise of course, although there was a bit more backfiring than usual. Probably just as well it's been discovered before something more drastic happened.....

....now I wish I would stop eyeing up that Kawasaki W650 I saw for sale the other day......... :-\ ;)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 07:08:25 PM by WillW »
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Sub

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 07:35:43 PM »
I feel bad about worrying about my light metal flakes now. :)

Its dealer time my friend.

ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 08:42:48 PM »
I'm gonna take a guess.

Given your noises from the valve train on the exhaust side, and the looks of that round part, I would venture a guess that you have a failed hydraulic lifter on the exhaust side.

I'm not sure what that L-shaped broken part is, but the thing that looks like a broken-in-half washer could be part of the internals of a hydraulic lifter.

ACE - There ain't no parts like that in the lifter at all ... I looked and racked my brain to see what in the Wide, Wide World of Sports that little mangled bit could be - I'm stumped. I'm SURE that careful disassembly of the engine with eyes wide open would find it .... THAT sort of thing bugs the living crap out of me - like the engine that "ate" the e-clip off the airbox cover latch ..... I was lucky enough to find two bits of the e-clip that were identifiable after comparing them to a whole one and VOILA! - mystery solved. Will's engine is ticking bomb with THAT kind of shrapnel in it ....
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ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2011, 08:46:47 PM »
I'm with you.  Don't ride it and talk to the dealer.  Bring the parts down, they might know what they are and be able to give you a better prognosis.  If not, ask what the first move is and how much it's likely to cost.  I do remember one poster saying that it was a remarkably short time it took hime to get the UCE engine out of the bike, on the bench, and have the piston and cylinder out.  It's a simple engine, it comes apart fast.

Scott

I could get the engine out of the bike, replace the gears in the transmission and have it back in less than five hours with no assistance ..... Looking for the "mystery bits" may take a little longer - but I'm betting that something of that nature would be pretty darn obvious, once the cases are separated ..... I love detective work .... I wish I was in the UK - Will would be buying the beer and crying softly as I wrenched! Hahahaha!  ;) .......  ;D ;D
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2011, 09:04:07 PM »
 Here is a shot in the dark...But.....Scooterbob. Take a look at item 50, on page 22. Rocker shaft assembly.. ...see that piece on top? looks similar to what will has posted up on the left. You know , like it might be that piece broken off # 50 ?  The hooked piece by the opening?

http://www.royalenfieldlesite.com/spip/IMG/pdf/bullet_classic_c5.pdf
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 09:11:38 PM by gashousegorilla »
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ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2011, 09:09:42 PM »
Here is a shot in the dark...But.....Scooterbob. Take a look at item 50, on page 22. Rocker shaft assembly.. ...see that piece on top? looks similar to what will has posted up on the left.

http://www.royalenfieldlesite.com/spip/IMG/pdf/bullet_classic_c5.pdf

Boy - I THOUGHT about that - but without the rat-trap spring on the shifter thingy, the pedal would be limp as a rag and wouldn't return ..... You are thinking like me, tho .... Must be the Celtic genius in us .... Heeheehee!  ;) I swear I took the engine apart in my mind twice whilst looking at the parts illustrations - and could not fathom where that diabolical crap came from ...... I MUST know now .... I must, I must!!
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2011, 09:22:53 PM »
Boy - I THOUGHT about that - but without the rat-trap spring on the shifter thingy, the pedal would be limp as a rag and wouldn't return ..... You are thinking like me, tho .... Must be the Celtic genius in us .... Heeheehee!  ;) I swear I took the engine apart in my mind twice whilst looking at the parts illustrations - and could not fathom where that diabolical crap came from ...... I MUST know now .... I must, I must!!


Dab Nabbit !!!!!  Will , rip that sucker apart already...... will ya ? :D Or Scooterbob could perhaps use a UK holiday?....    Might be cheaper for ya? ::)
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ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2011, 09:33:48 PM »

Dab Nabbit !!!!!  Will , rip that sucker apart already...... will ya ? :D Or Scooterbob could perhaps use a UK holiday?....    Might be cheaper for ya? ::)

Oh! - I could only HOPE!! Hahahaha!  ;)
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holodeck

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 09:38:48 PM »
Scooter Bob,
I don't have the slightest idea what you guys are talking about but is sure is good to have you back on the forum.

WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 09:47:45 PM »
Ha Ha, I appreciate the detective work fellas. I was turning the motor over with the rocker covers off earlier and everything was doing what it ought to. Whatever is busted in there hasn't fallen completely apart yet - I was thundering about on her just yesterday and apart from that ticking and a bit of backfiring all seemed well. I'm half tempted to ride (slowly mind) the thirty miles to the dealer - they charge £50 to send the pick-up out!
I'm also half tempted to open it up myself, though it would take me a bit longer than you pros I think  -  last engine I had completely to bits was a 1936 Morris 8 I restored in 1971!  But I'm thinking warranty  -  at least the parts are covered.
It's night here so I can't phone the dealer until tomorrow, but I doubt they'll be able to do anything until after the weekend.
I do have a little bit of money coming - my dear old dad died a few weeks ago - so I'll be able to pay the repair bill. I'll even be able to pay off the credit card I bought the bike with....  or Bob's air fare, and let's get the bloody job done proper..... ;)

but I must stop oggling that Kawa........
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ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2011, 10:24:00 PM »
Scooter Bob,
I don't have the slightest idea what you guys are talking about but is sure is good to have you back on the forum.

Broke Enfields - What else?? Hahaha!
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GreenMachine

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2011, 11:05:35 PM »
willw: so the bike isn't 2 yrs old yet...how many miles on it? what brrand and weight of oil do u use? would u say u drive aggressive or putz along most of the time?  how many miles since the last oil change and this happenng?  starnge to see such a new machine lose it like that...
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2011, 11:40:43 PM »
starnge to see such a new machine lose it like that...

Search the web.  There are catastrophic destruction on young specimens of every model.  Ducatis have a nasty tendency for large bumps in the road to crack the engine block and it's usually not covered by warranty, even on new bikes.  Rare but it happens.

I'll be watching with interest.  Will, I hope you haven't found a new Achille's heel that triggers a recal for all of us and I hope your on the road again soon.

Scott

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2011, 11:57:03 PM »
Will:

That is not a good thing to have such pieces falling out of engine, needs to go back to dealer :(.

It reminds me of what SSR had said in your other thread that these Bullets are capable of running even at thier death beds with missing parts !  Did you start after changing the oil and does it still run at all ?
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ScooterBob

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2011, 12:09:27 AM »
Search the web.  There are catastrophic destruction on young specimens of every model.  Ducatis have a nasty tendency for large bumps in the road to crack the engine block and it's usually not covered by warranty, even on new bikes.  Rare but it happens.

I'll be watching with interest.  Will, I hope you haven't found a new Achille's heel that triggers a recal for all of us and I hope your on the road again soon.

Scott

I don't know - but I'd guess with the age of Will's machine that the sheet in the oil was the RESULT of the recall and the ham-fisted MOH-Kanik that did it .... I ain't sayin' - I'm just sayin' ....... Been there, Seen that .... got the pictures to prove it .... I was to ld not to wheelie MY Doo-Katty for just the same reason .... apparently the engine mounting points are made of the same Flimsium Materail that a lot of the REST of the bike is made from .....  ::)
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2011, 12:19:34 AM »
How about a piece of mangled bearging cage?

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2011, 01:14:06 AM »
Now you've got me guessing and the suspense is killing me!  I'm going out on a limb and my guess now is oil pump self-destruction.  Bits are internals of the oil pump and the noise is valve lifters not doing their job due to low/no oil pressure.   ??? Wild guessing but I wanted to get my guess on record.  ::)

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2011, 01:36:09 AM »
My guess ...chunk of clutch spring that travelled in the oil and took out a chunk of and a valve retainer?  Exhaust side maybe..weakening of the sprink would cause the backfire and noise of it slapping around.
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« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 01:41:04 AM by Desi Bike »
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Sub

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2011, 02:14:21 AM »
Boy - I THOUGHT about that - but without the rat-trap spring on the shifter thingy, the pedal would be limp as a rag and wouldn't return ..... You are thinking like me, tho .... Must be the Celtic genius in us .... Heeheehee!  ;) I swear I took the engine apart in my mind twice whilst looking at the parts illustrations - and could not fathom where that diabolical crap came from ...... I MUST know now .... I must, I must!!
Well maybe not. If that (relatively big-looking) spring was now hitting a part of the engine casing, it still may provide some tension. That part (there is a better shot of it on page 48, #1) is the one I would have guessed as well. The break looks consistent with that sort of bend, and its the only bent piece that I could see.. maybe it wasnt bent properly during production (Ie bent cold) and started its life with a small fracture.

Did you ever notice a difference in shifting?

As for the 1/2 circle bit, I have no idea. Did you find the other half? Maybe the other half is that shredded up bits all over your magnet. That looks like a lot of metal there. Maybe your gears chewed it up?! :)

BTW, is it feasible for parts this large to make their way from all the way up in the rocker cover area to the bottom of the engine? I dont really see any large areas for them to pass down..

Being detective is fun! I'm excited to know what these parts actually are.

Does USA have that same warranty?! 1 year labor sucks!!

Sorry to hear about your dad.. my condolences.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 02:18:00 AM by Sub »

WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2011, 07:43:59 AM »
I bought the bike new on March 27th 2010. Now almost 7500 miles. Oil change every 2000 miles. Silkolene 15w-50 fully synth after break-in. I never ride hard up through the gears but I do cruise at 60 to 70. I've done 80 a couple times for less than a minute.

I didn't notice any change in shifting - nothing at all except the onset of the new noise. I haven't started the bike since draining the oil. Haven't refilled yet, until I know what happens next - ride to dealer / dealer collects / I do it myself / or ship to Bob... ;)

I strongly suspect this is due to a fault which has been there from new. I mentioned the bit of metal I found (then lost) at the very first oil change, and this engine has always been more rackety than the three other new Enfields I've heard.

If only I'd discovered this just two and a half weeks ago I'd still be in the first year of warranty - parts and labour......!

Plenty of good guesses from you guys as to what the offending bits of shrapnel might be. I just don't have a clue, but I'm really curious to find out. I haven't found the other half of the round bit - it may be lying in there or it may be all that metal dust!

I'm a bit concerned about how much hourly-rate detective work it'll take to find the cause, then a possible long wait for parts. Still tempted to do it myself as a project - and so I know it's been done right!  Alternatively, ship the whole engine in to Scooter Bob to mend. What's the rate down your way Bob?
 
In either case, I am starting to wonder (God help me) about taking the plunge on a second bike - partly because I'm now hooked and don't want to be without my ride possibly for weeks, and partly beacause I'm wanting to do some long trips, and this disaster has got me wondering whether a beefier machine might be a better option than just putting the 18 tooth sprocket on the Enfield. Seems I didn't get one of the tough ones - maybe even the friday bike......!


Thanks for your condolences Sub. We'll miss him of course, but he was very old and not very well, and had been wanting to go for a while.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 08:10:17 AM by WillW »
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2011, 11:34:45 AM »
How about a piece of mangled bearging cage?

I gave that some thought - The little piece looks "thick", though ......
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2011, 11:36:35 AM »
Will, if you're only a couple of weeks into the parts only warranty you may get away with a 'plea' to Watsonian Squire.

I would e-mail the pics to your dealer and copy in WS at the same time logging the fault. If your dealer can cut you some slack they'd have to clear it with WS first so you may as well communicate with both, WS may know what the damaged parts are. I did the same when I found bits of main bearing cage in drained oil (yours isn't that), I didn't get the answer I wanted but I did get a quick response.

A full engine strip is on the cards and if only the parts are covered by the warranty I'd really be tempted to do it myself (if I didn't need too many special tools).

Hope it works out ok.

WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2011, 01:09:31 PM »
Thanks Rusty - brilliant idea. I've just phoned Watsonian to see if there may be some leeway on the warranty, and emailed a photo of the metal bits and the YouTube link to give an idea of the noise its making. I'm waiting for them to get back to me.
I drove in to the dealer this morning and showed them the bits and played the vid clip on my camera. They agreed it was alarming and not to ride the bike. They weren't able to give me a guess about what the bits might be, or an estimate of the time it might take to find and fix the problem. But at £30 an hour plus 20% VAT on top it aint going to be cheap.
I'm hoping Watsonian are in generous spirits ......... :-\
If not, Im still contemplating doing it myself, although slightly daunted by how long that might take - busy spell coming up at the day job!

I have forced the ridiculous notion of a second bike from my thoughts....... :-X
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 01:13:48 PM by WillW »
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Sub

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2011, 01:54:26 PM »
 Contact Kevin Mahoney on here, and maybe he can help... even though he is on the other side of the pond.

Thats clearly a manufacturing defect, and you are so close to expiring..If enfield doesnt cover that, I think that says a lot about this company. :-\

WillW

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2011, 02:59:05 PM »
Well  -  that couldn't have gone any better!

Adam from Watsonian Squire just called me back to tell me they'll be down on monday to collect the bike themselves for factory repair. As you may imagine, I'm delighted.

They have the chassis number etc and have been in contact with the dealer, so I guess they know the full history of this bike  -  not always fortunate  -  remember the sheared off brake shaft? The flew-off heatshield? The failed sprag & starter relay......?  Now this.  
Made on a Chennai friday I'll be bound.....  As I said - I always felt the engine was more clattery than it ought to be, so I'll ask them to check everything while they're about it....

I'm impressed by and grateful to WS. And likewise you guys, for support and suggestions. And thanks again Rusty  -  it simply hadn't occurred to me  ::)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 05:34:32 PM by WillW »
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2011, 03:04:39 PM »
I didn't notice any change in shifting - nothing at all except the onset of the new noise. I haven't started the bike since draining the oil. Haven't refilled yet, until I know what happens next - ride to dealer / dealer collects / I do it myself / or ship to Bob... ;)

Since you have drained the oil, how about taking off the crank case covers and look at least some of the engine components.  May be there is a clue.  Take some pictures to keep a record of what you see.

Will - while I was typing you just posted that Watsonian will take care of it. That is wonderful.  (But you can still take a few pictures of inside  ;)).
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2011, 03:10:45 PM »
That was going to be my next move Singh, but other than giving it a bit of a clean, I think I'll leave it alone. It's a relief to know it'll be in good hands soon.  :)
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2011, 03:54:48 PM »
Excellent outcome.  We will all be looking forward to the analysis.
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2011, 05:11:15 PM »
Hi y'all, 

looks a bit like the auto decompressor to me.  If it is, how it got past the plate that holds the cams in place is a bit of a mystery.

Cheers Shappers.

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2011, 05:52:39 PM »
Hi y'all, 

looks a bit like the auto decompressor to me.  If it is, how it got past the plate that holds the cams in place is a bit of a mystery.

Cheers Shappers.


Hmmmmm - I'm not seeing that - which part of the auto-decompressor? It's not the fly-weight, I don't think .... and the little doo-dad that rotates to bump the lifter doesn't look like that at all ..... The Clever Detective in my is DYIN' to find out tho .....  ;)
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »
Contact Kevin Mahoney on here, and maybe he can help... even though he is on the other side of the pond.

Thats clearly a manufacturing defect, and you are so close to expiring..If enfield doesnt cover that, I think that says a lot about this company. :-\

I'd have to differ on that opine .... the reason being that Wills bike was probably subject to the gearbox clearance issue and was repaired (major) likely after it left the Factory. I've not seen anything come OUT of the Factory with that sort of foolishness afoot - and I've had more of those little mills apart than just about anyone on the Planet - in the USA for certain. MY guess is that something was amiss upon re-assembly from the gearbox repair. That being said, the Royal Enfield Factory most likely WILL cover the complete repair - not only to satisfy the owner - but as an investigation into that failure. The engineers at the Factory are VERY in tune to failures in the field and how they affect current production.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 06:31:53 PM by ScooterBob »
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2011, 06:27:01 PM »
I do get the sense that Watsonian are very willing to stand by these bikes. They're plainly alarmed at the situation with my bike and seem keen to investigate and make it good.

Quite what is meant by "factory repair" I'm not sure. I assumed they'd have it to pieces at their place here in UK, but perhaps I'll get an exchange replacement engine from Chennai. That'll be nice. They did say, when I mentioned rider withdrawal symptoms, that they hoped it wouldn't take too long.....  :-\

Regrettably, Bob now wont be getting either a large & heavy parcel or a plane ticket - either of which would probably have been cheaper than the labour costs I thought I was going to have to pay.... ;)
.... although resulting beer outgoings may have put a strain on the coffers..... :D :o
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2011, 06:38:59 PM »
I did a few "unrepairable" engines in the Skunk Works that required some pretty good detective work to ascertain the cause of the failure. I have a bit of a background in forensic mechanical study - having investigated accidents that have resulted in fatalities - so I know to jump in with "eyes wide open" when looking at a deal like yours, Will. It's good that Watsonian is willing to do the same for you. I look at it as a total learning experience - and one that they'll get paid for, too! That sort of knowledge is absolutely invaluable to people who deal with a product. Tell them to take photos - the Factory will want them anyway! Hahaha!

I'll just have to wait until I find another good excuse to "cross the pond" ...... Dang UTT!!
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2011, 09:11:10 PM »
well after hearing all that racket on the vid, we all had a bad feeling that something was headed south and quick...U guys should be selling hedge funds to investors.. ;D. i for one suspect that its not as bad as it seems and after careful deliberations it will be determined what course of action is required to resolve the problem...I'm wagering its under 500 quid...I'll go back to having another lemoncello now...
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2011, 09:46:46 PM »
It's really amazing the amount of internal carnage that these little engines will tolerate and still run ..... I've seen some doozy's
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2011, 01:12:44 AM »
This seems to run parallel to an experience I recently had...

Upon leaving a fast food joint 2 weeks ago I kicked the bike and it made a terrible "clackity clackity clack!" while idling. I was in a hurry and needed to get to work so I thundered off into the road and upon stopping at a red light less than 2 miles later the noise was gone.

Fastforward to a day ago.

I do my oil change a little past a thousand miles since initial break-in and there are metal chunks in the screen filter. And I mean small pieces you can pick up and feel not flakes. Nothing compared to your bike of course, but larger than what I had seen during initial break-in changes.

I have ridden over 500miles since the "clackity clack!" experience 100 being on this oil change with no visible issues. My bike always has had somewhat of a "clack" to the engine (Which I assumed to be normal) but it seems to be running better and quieter now than ever before. The idle seems faster than upon purchase but nothing else...(I took the exhaust off and may have a leak from reassembly)

In summary.
-"CLACKITY CLACK" noise there then gone 1-2 miles down road.
-Metal tid-bits in oil screen filter during change.
-Nothing else unusual since and running better than ever.

Should I be worried?

Sorry to steal the thread but this has got me thinking., I may just be over-thinking things, but his bike is my daily commuter and main mode of transportation. :-\

-Jake





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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2011, 04:20:25 AM »
Upon leaving a fast food joint 2 weeks ago I kicked the bike and it made a terrible "clackity clackity clack!" while idling. I was in a hurry and needed to get to work so I thundered off into the road and upon stopping at a red light less than 2 miles later the noise was gone.

Fastforward to a day ago.

I do my oil change a little past a thousand miles since initial break-in and there are metal chunks in the screen filter. And I mean small pieces you can pick up and feel
I have ridden over 500miles since the "clackity clack!" experience 100 being on this oil change with no visible issues.
-Metal tid-bits in oil screen filter during change.
-Nothing else unusual since and running better than ever.
Should I be worried?

Jake: 

Was the noise coming from the rocker cover like Wills's bike or down below and which side of engine ?  When you kicked the bike, did the kick lever slip one or two notches - click, click - before fully engaging ?
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2011, 08:11:39 AM »
That click/clack may be the auto de-compressor sticking briefly. It sometimes manifests as a loud clack when the the bike wont fire up immediately.

Are you sure the stuff on the screen was metal? The magnets usually catch the metal. The screen tends to get covered in bits of grey gasket sealant at the first oil change - it's a bit startling because it looks like shards of metal!

The idle does speed up after you've put some miles on the bike. There is a large flat horizontal brass screw above the throttle assembly to adjust it - a bit tricky to get to without a bent screwdriver. DON'T touch anything else down there!

You'll notice a very satisfying increase in smoothness and performance over the first 1000 miles, particularly at around 500.

My bike too has always had quite a bit of mechanical engine noise. I assumed it was normal - old style single and all that. But I have heard a couple of other UCE bikes running, and they were virtually silent by comparison.  I am a big fan of these bikes, but I do suspect there is a good deal of variation in assembly skills / standards of workmanship at the RE factory, and an unacceptably "relaxed" approach to quality control.

I don't think having a noisy engine is necessarily cause for concern - just the luck of the Chennai draw. Things will improve I daresay as more and more of these bikes are bought where Japaneses standards of build & finish have become the norm. Complacency is what did for the British bike industry after all - of which Chennai is the last outpost  -  but hopefully not the last gasp.......

I hope all is well with your bike Jake, it probably is. Enjoy the good bits. That 2 year warranty does remove a lot of the anxiety.....
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 10:48:36 AM by WillW »
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2011, 08:16:39 AM »
To be honest I can't tell which side it was coming from at all, it was just making a racket. I do however think I am missing the top tooth to my kickstart gear. (If there is such a thing, feels like this one ratchets or something?) Every now and then when I kick I can feel it slightly grab when it's at the top of it's rotation and slip down a tooth to where it normally catches.

I again, thought this normal after awhile and shrugged it off.

WillW, My couple of smaller shards (than yours anyway) where caught in the screen filter with my magnet full of dust like your picture shows. I too am grateful for the warranty especially only a few months in, I have about half your total mileage in this time as well.

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2011, 08:18:55 AM »
The sprag clutch has failed on some of these bikes. They now fit a more robust one. If you're having problems at all, get it back to the dealer.  Hopefully not too far away....?
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2011, 01:09:03 PM »
YJake - The early bikes were notorious for little lifter problems due to the low pressure chambers being to tightly fitted i the lifter bodies. They'd pump up and keep the valves open - or they'd not pump up at all and allow the valve-train to clatter like a neglected Iron Barrel until they warmed  up enough to move again. I suspect this is what happened in your engine. As for the "raw bits" in the bottom - I have seen some of the early bikes with what looked to be metallic undercoating in the engines - just dust tho - no parts big enough to have part numbers stamped on them like Will's bike. If yours runs good now and sounds good now - it probably IS good for all intents and purposes .... I'd keep and eye on the trash screen come oil change time. THAT will be the teller of the tale ....
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2011, 01:21:00 PM »
This is exactly what I have.. Did you see my video posted above? Tell me if yours sounds the same.
This seems to run parallel to an experience I recently had...

Upon leaving a fast food joint 2 weeks ago I kicked the bike and it made a terrible "clackity clackity clack!" while idling. I was in a hurry and needed to get to work so I thundered off into the road and upon stopping at a red light less than 2 miles later the noise was gone.

Fastforward to a day ago.

I do my oil change a little past a thousand miles since initial break-in and there are metal chunks in the screen filter. And I mean small pieces you can pick up and feel not flakes. Nothing compared to your bike of course, but larger than what I had seen during initial break-in changes.

I have ridden over 500miles since the "clackity clack!" experience 100 being on this oil change with no visible issues. My bike always has had somewhat of a "clack" to the engine (Which I assumed to be normal) but it seems to be running better and quieter now than ever before. The idle seems faster than upon purchase but nothing else...(I took the exhaust off and may have a leak from reassembly)

In summary.
-"CLACKITY CLACK" noise there then gone 1-2 miles down road.
-Metal tid-bits in oil screen filter during change.
-Nothing else unusual since and running better than ever.

Should I be worried?

Sorry to steal the thread but this has got me thinking., I may just be over-thinking things, but his bike is my daily commuter and main mode of transportation. :-\

-Jake







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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2011, 02:18:43 AM »
Video?  ???

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2011, 06:52:58 AM »
-"CLACKITY CLACK"

Mine has done that once, literally on its last start-up before the sad ride to the shed last winter. 

It hasn't reappeared since the snows have gone, so I'm not too worried about it.  If it becomes a regular, or even semi-regular, thing, I expect I'll go digging.
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2011, 08:48:00 PM »
First off bad luck with your bike Will, I've been looking at the w800 as well very tempting. My kickstart feels like it slips a tooth as well, all so now and again she sounds a bit clattery on start up.
I only have 1300 miles on the clock and I'm doing a longer run in,counting the gearbox recall she has had four oil changes,i did one today and there was just a very light dusting of fillings on the drain plug,thankfully no heavy metal as i am out of warranty mine is a 2009 g5.

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2011, 10:33:43 PM »
Ah yes, that W800 is a gorgeous looking machine isn't it. Seriously tempting, but the 650 (676 I believe) is about ideal for me in weight and power I reckon. And more Bonnie than a Bonnie.... 
Trying to banish the idea from my mind, but it persists as plans for much longer rides are forming. Wouldn't part with my Enfield though for jaunts round the west country - I doubt there's another ride quite like it....... ;)
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2011, 10:36:34 PM »
We only got the W650 on this side of the pond for two years and never even saw the 800.  Shame, nice bikes.

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2011, 10:47:30 PM »
I read somewhere that only 250 of the W800 are being imported to UK. Don't know whether it's true.
I saw a very beat-up 2000 reg. W650 with 105,000 miles on the clock go for £1440 on Ebay this afternoon! Very low mileage ones are still fetching around £4000.
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2011, 11:27:56 PM »
To be honest I can't tell which side it was coming from at all, it was just making a racket. I do however think I am missing the top tooth to my kickstart gear. (If there is such a thing, feels like this one ratchets or something?) Every now and then when I kick I can feel it slightly grab when it's at the top of it's rotation and slip down a tooth to where it normally catches.

My kickstart feels like it slips a tooth as well, all so now and again she sounds a bit clattery on start up.

@Jake & @Billy

My 2009 G5 kick start also slips a tooth fairly regularly.  So I do not give full strength kick right away. I put some pressure on the kick lever to check if the teeth are fully engaged. If it slips a tooth, I let go off the pressure and let the kick lever come up again and then give a full strength kick all the way down.

Bullet always keeps the rider on the toes  :D.  

@Jake - It seems that your bike is running fine now, just give the gas tank a SeaFoam treatment.  It is very helpful to get rid of moisture in gas, it also cleans fuel injector and lubes the valves and upper cylinder.



« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 11:37:05 PM by singhg5 »
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2011, 02:00:49 AM »
My bike does the same thing when it is really cold. I am not worried about it.

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2011, 05:56:58 PM »
It looks like a valve keeper to me. You must have a sticking valve or you over reved the engine. You may have a broken valve spring.
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2011, 06:00:22 PM »
It looks like a valve keeper to me. You must have a sticking valve or you over reved the engine. You may have a broken valve spring.
Bare

You can't over-rev one - the rev limiter is at 5400rpm's or so ..... and if it would have dropped a keeper out - it would have dropped the valve .... such is the design of the keepers and valve stem .....
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2011, 11:47:23 PM »
Did the mystery bits ever get identified?  The suspense is killing me.
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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2011, 02:22:06 AM »
Yes, please! Love a good mystery. Personally, I think it was one of your buddies getting you back for squirting oil under his bike or filling up his tank when he was looking. That or faeries.  ::)

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2011, 02:44:45 PM »
Any results yet Will?

Inquiring minds want to know.  :)
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میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

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Re: Worrying metal bits on drain plug
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2011, 01:46:09 AM »
I think that WillW said that dealership thought was part of the sprag clutch? Hope all is well and you up and running again.