Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?

[mattsz]

GSS - Isn't that a symptom that appears when the 4 turn signal lights themselves are replaced with low current-draw LEDs?  I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing - I'm keeping the turn signal lights incandescent, only switching the indicator light in the speedo.  This LED should draw even less power than the incandescent speedo indicator bulb, so it shouldn't be any more likely to cause the opposite sides to flash any more then they do now, which they don't.  But the LED, in theory, only passes current one way, so I'm thinking that without the diodes the LED indicator light will only illuminate with one flashing side or the other, depending on the polarity of the socket wiring, but not both.

Am I out in left field on this one?

[barenekd]

Yet you appear to state that you made a direct indicator bulb replacement without adding any diodes.

That's right. Only if you put LEDs in the stalks do you need the diodes. The problem is actually with the flasher. Using the LEDs in the stalks reduces the resistance to the point that the flasher won't work right, similar to the problem you seen when a bulb burns out and the flashing rate doubles. Using just the LED in the speedo indicator will not reduce the resistance through the flasher enough to cause any problem.
As for the taillight mentioned, the license plate lighting is taken care of by the 6 white LEDs which surround and point radially around the 19 red tail/brake LEDs. 1157-R19W6 bulb.

[gremlin]

some LED devices have a bridge circuit so they may operate regardless of polarity and on AC circuits.  Less expensive units will only light up for one direction.

[GSS]

GSS - Isn't that a symptom that appears when the 4 turn signal lights themselves are replaced with low current-draw LEDs?  I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing - I'm keeping the turn signal lights incandescent, only switching the indicator light in the speedo............Am I out in left field on this one?

You are correct. You can simply change the little indicator bulb to LED without needing diodes if you keep the 4 incandescent "trafficator" lights.

[mattsz]

I suppose this is going to be one of those situations where I'll have to trust the experience of others who have done this successfully.  I'm ok with that, but I still would like to get my head around it.

My understanding of how this simple and elegant circuit functions is telling me that the LED substitution shouldn't work without the diode modification.  The system relies on current flowing through the incandescent speedo indicator bulb in both directions - which shouldn't happen with the LED.  Maybe these inexpensive little devices have the bridge circuitry to which Gremlin refers?

Can someone give me the dope-slap I need to wake me up what's happening here?

[mattsz]

Well, the plot thickens - it looks like Gremlin was right, after all...

Bare and singhg5 both promised plug-and-play replacement, and now I see why: the specs for the LEDs in question list 12V AC/DC.  I didn't notice earlier... 

[barenekd]

I didn't promise plug and play with LEDs. Only if you change just the indicator bulb and leave the incandescents in the stalks. Then I will guarantee the turn signals will work. Withall the hassles going on with diodes and othere doodads, I just left the incandescents in to start with. So I changed one bulb, which ws the one I wanted to be able to see and left the rest stock. My turn signals work, and I can see the indicator in any lighting situation. Exactly what I wanted! And I sure wasn't worried about theose4 little bulbs running my battery down as little as I use turn signals. And now that I can see the indicator light, I  seldom leave them on!
Bare

[b.sheets]

It appears to me that in order to replace the indicator bulb with an LED, the diode scheme must be implemented, regardless of whether the factory turn signal bulbs are retained or they are replaced with LEDs.  Yet you appear to state that you made a direct indicator bulb replacement without adding any diodes.  Singhg5 has a video where he also apparently makes a direct indicator replacement without adding any diodes.

Do I need the diodes or not?  What am I missing here?

Why so much confusion?

The indicator bulb is a direct swap. no wiring needed. no diode needed.
A DIRECT BULB SWAP from original bulb to LED.

ONLY....and I mean ONLY if you put LED bulbs in your actual turn signals.(not the indicator) do you need the DIODE kit.

[Arizoni]

mattsz:  Let me take a stab at an explanation.

The power supplied to the trafficator bulb to lite either the right or the left trafficators is positive (+) current.
Most of it goes towards lighting the bulbs where it runs to the negative ground thru the bulb but a connecting branch from this positive side runs to the indicator light in the speedometer.
This positive power goes thru the indicator bulb, and into the positive side of the other unlit trafficator bulbs on the other side of the bike.  This power doesn't know that this other side could also be a positive if it were turned on.  It only sees that by passing thru the unlit trafficator bulbs on the other side of the bike it can get to the negative ground so that's exactly what it does.  The result is the indicator  bulb lights.

This same thing happens regardless of which sides trafficators are being lit.

Now that I've said that, gremlin can shake his head and say, "What a dummy!" and explain to us all just how the indicator light uses its trafficator power to light up. 

[gremlin]

Why so much confusion?

The indicator bulb is a direct swap. no wiring needed. no diode needed.
A DIRECT BULB SWAP from original bulb to LED.

ONLY....and I mean ONLY if you put LED bulbs in your actual turn signals.(not the indicator) do you need the DIODE kit.

the "gotcha" here is:  make sure the LED unit you use for the indicator is rated for AC/DC operation.

[gremlin]

...........gremlin can shake his head and say..........

Told ya so !

[Arizoni]

Yah but is my story right or wrong? 

[gremlin]

Your story is spot-on !

[mattsz]

Last time, then I'll shut up...

Bare - I know, you didn't promise anything!  But you did say that you simply replaced the turn signal indicator bulb with a particular LED and it worked.  To me, that's "plug and play", in this particular instance, anyway.

Arizoni, your description is correct - the circuit is designed to work that way... as long as the indicator light allows current to pass "both ways", like the OEM incandescent bulbs do.

b.sheets - the confusion comes because your run-of-the-mill LED does not allow current to flow "both ways", and it won't work as an indicator without the diode scheme, regardless of whether your actual turn signals are LED or incandescent.

The key point, which Gremlin made, is that a special LED unit designed to light regardless of which way the current flows, like, oh I don't know, an LED rated to work with AC or DC, will work in our circuit, which is designed to have current flow both ways through the indicator light.  I didn't notice until late in the discussion that the LED's in question happen to be rated for AC or DC, and will therefore work without further modification.

Thank you all - now back to our regularly scheduled mayhem...

[Jack Leis]

Mattsz, as a friend with caring and understanding, TRY NOT TO THINK SO MUCH !