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Author Topic: Weeping at the Sight Glass  (Read 1682 times)

TWinOKC

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Weeping at the Sight Glass
« on: May 02, 2011, 04:03:07 PM »
My bike weeps oil at the sight glass.  It is just a slight leak, runs under the engine and drips a drop or two.  I thought it was the o-ring or the drain plug, changed those twice before I figured it was coming from somewhere else.

I guess I have the only RE that leaks oil, just my luck. 
2010  C5  Teal
Triumph Bonneville T100

t120rbullet

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 04:24:57 PM »
I guess I have the only RE that leaks oil, just my luck. 

Royal Enfield has a long and proud history of leaking oil.
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
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Okie Enfield

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 05:45:32 PM »
You have the twin to my ride TW, right? I am taken mine in to Rons this weekend for some minor adjustments and her first oil change. If'n you want I can let him know bout you sight glass leak.

clubman

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 06:35:40 PM »
Royal Enfield has a long and proud history of leaking oil.

Well, they used to be called Royal Oilfield!  ;D

But the UCE certainly seems good and tight, mine certainly is.

TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 06:50:19 PM »
You have the twin to my ride TW, right? I am taken mine in to Rons this weekend for some minor adjustments and her first oil change. If'n you want I can let him know bout you sight glass leak.

Yes, ask him what he thinks.  Actually I talked with him several months ago about this problem, he said he had never seen one with a leak like that, maybe he has more information now.

I have a small house on Grand Lake, travel thru Tulsa often.  Maybe I could drop you a line, we could meet in Tulsa for lunch.  Never seen another RE on the streets of Oklahoma.  You know what Tulsa spelled backwards is, right?

Cheers,

Terry   
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Okie Enfield

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 06:56:10 PM »
LOL! I certainly do know what Tulsa spelled backwards is! Tee hee!

So far as I know we have the only two in the state. I will ask Ron what he think it might be. As far as droppin in when your in Town, Me casa es su casa. My email is on here so drop me line ifn you want. Like to ride and like to eat so seems like a good plan.

Parks

Ice

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 07:13:21 PM »
Weep at the sight glass,,,sheesh  ;D

If it were an iron barrel it would be normal and you wouldn't worry,,,,until it stopped  ;D  :( ::) :P


 Wait, did I just say that out loud ?

slinks off to adjust ignition points
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Andy

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 10:36:36 PM »
Jesus H. Christ, Bob, you really know how to scare a guy.  Mine's not leaking at all and now I want to fix it!   :o
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TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011, 11:04:42 PM »
This is going to BE a problem if not addressed. The sight glass pushes into the case from the OUTSIDE and has no mechanical fixture to hold it there, other than a little friction on the rubber sealing ring. Any oil that gets past it is going to wet the seal and make it MORE prone to removing itself under the slightest crankcase pressure. I sent one flying across the room with 8psig as a test ...  I made the suggestion that the sight glass should have an e-clip or a circlip or SOME sort of mechanical fixture to it .... but I guess a dozen or so "hard" improvements were enough.

I'd take the thing to a machine shop and have a groove cut around the inside of the sight glass hole to allow mechanical fixing of the thing. That way, if it DOES leak - it isn't going to pop out and toss all the oil all at once .......

Scooter Bob - Thank you for your reply.  I think I am having a heart attack!   Bike only has 1291 miles, MFR Date of Jan 2010.  Was planning a 300 mile ride on old Rte 66 in early June with some pre 1975 bikes, was planning to show them what an Enfield could do!  Maybe I need to think about this a little.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 11:07:07 PM by TWinOKC »
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Tri750

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 11:30:14 PM »
we've had 1 sight glass weeper.
KH suggested we replace it ASAP for the reason SB mentioned.
after tapping the leaker out, we found the o-ring or seal was distorted
showing it was put in a bit crooked.
easy fix, we had the sight glass and gasket in stock
thanks to SB suggesting it during our school.

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ScooterBob

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 12:02:46 AM »
Jesus H. Christ, Bob, you really know how to scare a guy.  Mine's not leaking at all and now I want to fix it!   :o

For you "do it yourselfers" - I think either CV Products or maybe even Summit Racing has the spiffy little "cut yer own" circlip groove cutting doo-dad for pretty cheeeeep. I cheated and used a small boiler tube sheet roller on the Military bike that I just did (use what you got .... it's an old family tradition ....). It made enough of a groove to accept a wrist pin circlip that I had that was pretty close (again UWYG!) and it was done in a jiffy. NOW it'd take significantly more than 8psig to get it out of there - even if it IS leaking.

I had also entertained putting a "retaining ring" over the glass (PVC tubing would do well ...) and securing THAT with a couple of small button head screws on the perimeter. It wouldn't take much to get peace of mind. That design is a total rookie mistake, I think ..... I was absolutely STUNNED that it went in from the OUTSIDE .... stunned ...
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

gashousegorilla

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 12:27:08 AM »
??......  I must take it apart to see what you mean  ;D
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Okie Enfield

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2011, 01:07:31 AM »
OK, i have to mirror Andy on this one.  :o  Last thing I want is catastrophic failure doing 65, 200 miles from home. TW, i know you're about 200 miles away from Ron's. You think you will be able to get it up to him in time for the run? I'm going to keep an eye on mine as well as they both may have been manufactured at the same time in India, probably on friday. Keep us up to date.

GreenMachine

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 01:09:48 AM »
nothing worst than looking weepy at a leaky weepy sight glass...i'm glad i don;t have that problem...u guy get the weird ones..
Oh Magoo you done it again

Ice

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 01:16:34 AM »
Site glass
http://www.mcmaster.com/#bull%27s-eye-sights/=c4x114
its along page so scroll down
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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olhogrider

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2011, 02:16:51 AM »
Al nailed it. They replaced mine and it has been fine ever since. Probably a sloppy install at the factory. I like SB's circlip idea or even a dab of glue before it does anything nasty. Kevin was concerned because of past failures but said they haven't seen it on the UCE. Probably the same installer.

TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2011, 02:41:46 AM »
OK, i have to mirror Andy on this one.  :o  Last thing I want is catastrophic failure doing 65, 200 miles from home. TW, i know you're about 200 miles away from Ron's. You think you will be able to get it up to him in time for the run? I'm going to keep an eye on mine as well as they both may have been manufactured at the same time in India, probably on friday. Keep us up to date.

Thanks for all the replies.  I am thinking about givin it a go myself, looks like just nuts and bolts, no special tools required.   Remove the side case, press the old one out, press the new one in.  Need to do an oil change anyway.  The only part that I am a little fuzzy on is the wires right next to the oil cap.  Easy does it, I got lots of time, plenty of tools.  Worst case scenario, take it to a local cycle shop and beg.   Ordering parts tomorrow.   
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Tri750

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2011, 02:43:16 AM »
I had also entertained putting a "retaining ring" over the glass (PVC tubing would do well ...) and securing THAT with a couple of small button head screws on the perimeter. It wouldn't take much to get peace of mind. That design is a total rookie mistake, I think ..... I was absolutely STUNNED that it went in from the OUTSIDE .... stunned ...

it's no secret that the BMW boxer motor that came out in 1994 has had
more than a few outside install sight glasses go "pituuui"
and dump all the oil. they install from the outside as well.
unofficially, they should be replaced around 45k miles unless the bike
has been allowed to superheat from idling for 30 minutes or so.
they didn't change to a circlip retainer until probably 2004/5.
no drama. we drill a small hole on the clear plastic, use a slide hammer with a machine screw to pop it out. a custom PVC tool drives in the new one.
the RE does require pulling the engine cover tho.

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singhg5

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2011, 03:48:26 AM »
@Tri750:

Would a slightly thicker O-ring give a tighter fit and stop the leak ? Or as Olhogrider suggested apply some glue around the edges to keep it in place.
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Tri750

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2011, 04:44:32 AM »
I would stay stock. There are many, many UCE's not leaking.
The bmw's give you a telltale sign as do the RE's it appears.
If you're the type that doesn't know every nut and bolt, and every rattle and wiggle of your bike, you would own a Honda. RE owners are very connected to thier bikes so when you polish the aluminum or snug down a loose nut, peek at the sight glass and call it good.
Using a glue or sealer is risky. Yellow weatherstrip glue goes pliable when hot, silicon gets slippery when bathed in hot oil. The beemers require the new glass to be installed dry, or with whatever residual oil is on the hands. They don't want hot oil causing a second pituui either.
For folks really concerned, toss a sight glass in the tool kit or tape one to the inside wall of the electrics box and call it good.
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BRADEY

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2011, 09:44:40 AM »
I would suggest RE to replace the "push in" type sight glass with a "screw in" type, so that there is no possibility of loosing it suddenly. They could also use a high temprature thread locker at the factory.

TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2011, 01:27:30 PM »
Leaning heavily toward doing the repair myself, advice/assistance will be greatly appreciated.    I am the second owner = no warranty, nearest Enfield is over 100 miles away.   I never got around to getting a shop manual so I am depending heavily on support from this forum.   

When I remove the side case what am I going to see in there?  Is there going to be a bunch of springs, and BB's fall all over the place or is the case just a cavity for oil?

Thanks,

Terry

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singhg5

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2011, 04:28:35 PM »
Leaning heavily toward doing the repair myself, advice/assistance will be greatly appreciated.  I never got around to getting a shop manual so I am depending heavily on support from this forum.  

When I remove the side case what am I going to see in there?

Terry:

The service manual is worth having for DIY projects.  According to that, there are 11 Allen screws on the RH cover and there are 2 dowels. The cover may need gentle tapping to remove because of magnetic attraction between rotor and stator.

Manual recommends that the wiring coupler of the stator (which is attached to inside of RH cover) be removed from the wire harness before removing the cover.  Below is a link to a video that has some views of what you will see when RH cover is removed.  The video was made by an Italian RE dealer who has two RE EFI repair videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeRJCwdOiKg&feature=related

« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 08:40:25 PM by singhg5 »
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Andy

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2011, 08:04:14 PM »

When I remove the side case what am I going to see in there? 

Just work very carefully around the hamster on his wheel - he works pretty hard and needs his rest!   ;D
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ScooterBob

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2011, 01:20:22 AM »
Al nailed it. They replaced mine and it has been fine ever since. Probably a sloppy install at the factory. I like SB's circlip idea or even a dab of glue before it does anything nasty. Kevin was concerned because of past failures but said they haven't seen it on the UCE. Probably the same installer.

Gee - None of the OTHER bikes ever had site glasses on them ...... and the engineers in India HAVE seen the glasses pop out ..... I ain't sayin' - I'm just sayin' .....
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olhogrider

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2011, 01:41:21 AM »
I may have misunderstood. He may have been speaking about some other type of bike. Anyway, they rally should use your circlip idea. What was that groovy tool?

GreenMachine

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2011, 01:50:39 AM »
not that it affects me, but r u saying the oil sight glass is pressed in from the outside using a rubber grommet type fitting? do they use a adhesive?   the sight glass for other manufacuers, r they done the same way?
Oh Magoo you done it again

ScooterBob

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2011, 12:37:12 PM »
Yeah - The sight glass is pressed in from the OUTSIDE and has rubber around it to secure it. There is nothing on it but friction to hold it in place - and therein lies the problem - when oil gets past it, it lubricates it and allows it to pop out under pressure.

The tool I used was a small tube roller for installing tubing in boiler sheets. Basically, it crams a copper tube into a groove for a tight seal. I just ran the roller around the soft alloy until I had enough of a groove to retain the clip that I found in the toolbox drawer. A good machinist should be able to cut a groove pretty cheap as it is FAR from a precision operation ..... at least it was in MY case! Haha!
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GreenMachine

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2011, 04:27:28 PM »
geeze, well whose lame brain idea was that..of course its going to blow out..overtime the rubberis going to lose it elasticity and there she blows like the white whale except its not sperm oil...funny how it takes awhile to c what defective engineering  design crops up (not that they would admit too)...luckily their a cheap and effective fix by the technician scooterbob...
Oh Magoo you done it again

ScooterBob

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2011, 06:25:37 PM »
Green Machine - I'm ALL ABOUT cheap and effective ..... Remember that I'm really just a Po' Hillbilly deep down inside .....  ;) Thanks for the kudo!   ;D
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TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2011, 07:02:48 PM »
Update-

The parts are on order, the dealer expects to have them Tuesday, then another couple of days for him to forward them to me, I might have parts in hand by Friday - May 13.  Only need 2 parts and cost is approx $25.

I am thinking of just removing the side case, cleaning the area and replacing  the sight glass using some high temp adhesive.  The failure rate seems pretty low,  I don't think I need to overdo the repair.

Planning to take some pictures and post them for reference.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and support from this forum, especially ScooterBob & Kevin.

Later,

Terry

« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 07:04:57 PM by TWinOKC »
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2011, 11:43:24 PM »
If you're pulling the side case order a gasket for that too.

Scott

TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2011, 02:31:09 PM »
If you're pulling the side case order a gasket for that too.

Scott

Yes, two parts needed, side case gasket and sight glass.  Fingers are crossed, hope that's all I need.   The same dealer told me the air filter mod is in, so he is shipping that also. 

Thanks,

Terry
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 02:39:24 PM by TWinOKC »
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Okie Enfield

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2011, 01:47:39 AM »
Any updates TW?

TWinOKC

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Re: Weeping at the Sight Glass
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2011, 07:51:17 PM »
Okie Enfield    -  Still waiting on parts.  Kind of a cluster f---.    Check your email later today.

Thanks,

Terry   
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