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Author Topic: Frame Differences?  (Read 969 times)

PushRock78

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Frame Differences?
« on: June 01, 2011, 01:30:21 AM »
Hello all,

I was wondering if there was any significant differences in the frames between the various models and if any are more conductive to a more sporting usage i.e. weight and rigidity? Besides parts abundance and price, is there any benefits to the <2006 iron barrel frame?

I intend on inflicting heavy customization upon the model I eventually choose, so the cheaper the 'slate' the better. However, I'm starting to fall deeply in love with the UCE and it seems performance kits are right around the corner.

I apologize if this has been broached before, a search didn't glean anything of detail. However, my searching skills always left some to be desired.
I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasnt arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and Im going to be happy in it. -Groucho Marx

Fox

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 02:22:16 AM »
Hi PushRock78, welcome to the forum.

Quick rundown, other folks feel free to correct me if I'm wrong:

G5 - Larger rake angle, slightly larger frame(?), 19" tires - lends itself to higher speed better than the C5
C5 - Smaller rake angle, 18" tires, nimble but twitchier at higher speeds
B5 - Same frame as the Iron Barrel

Based on your desired purpose, I'd think the B5 would be your bike of choice. I guess it would depend on the time frame for your modifications; right now there's no aftermarket for the UCE models but there's plenty of stuff out there for iron barrel models.
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Ice

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 02:55:46 AM »
Hi PushRock78 and welcome aboard.

 The UCE lump is way over built for the power it makes in stock form  ;) 8)

 At this time, other than low restriction air filters, exhaust and the power commander ECU and different sprockets there isn't really any speed equipment yet.
So the cams, pistons EFI stuff is still open to be pioneered by some one willing to take the leap.  BTW; the EFI is genuine Keihin so parts swaps from Asian bikes should be possible.

 Ron Chinnoy built the daylights out of a UCE in India and smashed a record in a pikes peak type race with it,,,,so we know the potential is there.

CMW was working on something for the UCE but I don't know what.

Hitchocks is understandably quiet about the performance kits they are developing.

Forum brother Pistone AKA Fabrizio "McDeeb" DiBella builds some seriously nice custom Bullets in Italy and IIRC has punched a UCE out to 535.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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greggers

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 04:09:56 AM »
Doesn't nfieldgear have a 535 kit for the EFI bikes now? Anyone done that?

Ice

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 04:30:22 AM »
Doesn't nfieldgear have a 535 kit for the EFI bikes now? Anyone done that?

Yes they do. Pn# Z91548 and $295 gets you a 535 piston for the UCE.
url]http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/efi-piston-535.html[/url]

If one of our forum brothers here is running it they sure are keeping it quiet.

 The stroke remaining unchanged, I would guess the EFI could probably handle it if not the power commander could.

 Searching the threads for "dynamic compression" will yield a wealth of knowledge about setting compression pressure.

 

I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 10:34:32 AM »
Hi.   
Frame wise, (and body panel wise) I think the B 5 is actually the same as the Indian model traditional 350:   I am not sure if this shares a common frame with the iron barrel or not, but though the Nfield gear website doesn't yet list it as a separate model for parts search, I think you will find a wealth of low cost aftermarket parts for the 350 on the Indian site, and there is no reason these wouldn't fit the B 5 (other than drive train which is of course the same as G 5 C 5. 

The G 5 frame is from the Electra a mid 1950's iteration , and it's larger wheels and slightly grater trail would lend it better high speed highway performance. 

The C 5 has 18 inch wheels  a longer swing arm and smaller rake/trail coming out to almost or exactly the same wheelbase but as a result has better low speed handling characteristics (which is not so say that the G 5 is a low speed slouch)

The B 5 is the frame /body that has earned Royal Enfields the deserved  reputation of tough overland traveller >  I believe Scooter Bob indicated (to an earlier question) that the steerring head may have the traditional loose pack bearings instead of manufactured raceways, but that it was in other respects the mechanical equivalent of either C 5  or G 5 .  Also , attached below, find a reply from Hitchcocks to my enquiry a few months ago about the status of their performance mods, which would be applicable to any of the three.   Cheers, Nigel

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  UCE Performance Mods Heads Up
on: March 24, 2011, 05:58:27 PM  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing that Hitchcock's has a whole "suite" of performance mods available (though at quite a price---about 1,900 pounds , not dollars) available for the Iron Barrel, out of curiosity I asked them what they had up their sleeve regarding the UCE.   Copied below is their reply.  In their website they seem to quoting similar hp improvements to those achieved by ACE in the Fireball package this side of the Atlantic, though part of their package is a stroke change and displacepent upgrade to 612 cc (Bore 87  think) :

The gent that corresponded did wish to correct the statement regarding programmable  setting intervals on the power commander : Not 200RPM as stated, but 250.  His response also seems to answer some of the questions that were being tossed around in previous threads on this forum  regarding the interaction of the stock CPU for the EFI and the Power Commander in widely modified engine breathing/capacity situations.  (ie looks like the undertaking can be accomplished with the stock CPU overridden by Power Commander specially scripted to the performance specs of the modified engine.  I don't know if their head mods are as extensive as those in the Fireball project. 
Anyway, for those who are interested in this or already involved in this work, I  thought you might like to know their agenda.   Regards Nigel   (Please remember that I am not technically sophisticated so apologies if the terms I use aren't professional lingo.  I just try to explain it the way I understand it.   
 
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  Re: UCE Performance Mods Heads Up
Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 06:00:08 PM  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops, fogot the attachment

Hi Nigel,
 
We are slowing working on a 612cc kit for the UCE model (we call them EFI over here), a head and cams will be part of this kit along with bigbore kit and crank. However although we have been developing and testing for about 18 months, it is not expected to be available until the end of the year.
 
We already have a 535cc piston for the EFI, this is a German made forged piston under part number 90224 @ 140.00 which works well with the standard bottom end.
 
We can offer a K&N air filter element for the Electra EFI, but not the classic EFI.
 
With anything other than a basic silencer change you will need the power commander as the standard CPU does not have enough range. We have used the power commander on totally stock engines and had improved running. We normally program these for the customer from a number of maps that we have available depending on the specifics of the modifications. Alternatively we can supply all these on a disc with the power commander if the end customer knows what to do. If you have a decent understanding of these units you can also manually change the mapping at 200 rev intervals. As we develop more parts an increased range of maps will be available.
 
Regards,
Hitchcock's Motorcycles Ltd.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 05:24:36 PM »
The C5 with it's shorter trail is probably best suited to attaching a side car.  Usually sidecar bikes are altered to reduce trail and make steering easier.  They don't need the longer a trail a leaning two wheeler needs for stability.  That said, it seems any RE can take a side car without altering the front end and isn't too hard to handle.

Scott

PushRock78

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 11:00:28 PM »
Thanks to all of the above members for their input. All had something meaningful to add which is what sets this forum (and indeed Enfield enthusiasts) apart from others. And 100+ views! This truly was a subject worth investigating.

Fox, Nigel & Scotty, based on your postings it seems the G5 suits my needs best. While the C5's entry point and history are the most attractive, I think the G5's premium may be worth it if I can approach the ton more comfortably. Relatively speaking. Further, it'll be at least a year until I'm in a financial position to own a Bullet, hopefully there will be a few on the used market by then to leverage the costs of performance mods.

To Nigel specifically, I've been lurking here for a number of months and have been following that thread with interest, which is why I feel 'just around the corner' is an apt statement. Not to mention NField's kit which I never noticed before. Anyone know if that would be covered by the 2-year warranty since it's essentially OEM?

I do however want to wait and see if the Fireball boys take a crack at the UCE. The Kneeslider article chronicling their efforts is what introduced me to the wide world of Enfield. Hence, they single-handedly kept me from Buell Blast ownership. I feel they've earned my patronage. Plus, Chumma responded to a comment I made there that it has at least been been postulated.
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olhogrider

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 11:28:20 PM »
Once you set the tire pressure on a C5 to the ridiculously low pressure it needs there are no instability issues. It is just very responsive. I spoke to Chumma about a UCE Fireball. Since they are still under warranty there won't be many people tearing into them... yet.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2011, 01:40:49 PM »
The Kneeslider article chronicling their efforts is what introduced me to the wide world of Enfield. Hence, they single-handedly kept me from Buell Blast ownership.

You should thank them for that ;)  And remember, the right motorcycle is not just a collection of features.  Take all the models for a ride and see which one you like.  The G5 and C5 feel very different, not sure about the B5 as I haven't ridden one.

Scott

PushRock78

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2011, 08:53:35 PM »
Very good point Scotty. Motorcycles are probably the most subjective of vehicles. Also, a very good excuse to visit my local dealer this summer!

Almost forgot; per Nigel's comment, can anyone enlighten the uninitiated the significance of loose pack bearings vs. manufactured raceways?
I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasnt arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and Im going to be happy in it. -Groucho Marx

BrashRooster

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 01:19:06 AM »
612cc upgrade and some off road tires my B5 could climb Mt. Everast! So if the sprocket ratio was changed towards higher top end speed could a UCE hit a ton? What would it do to the fuel economy? If it was left stock sprockets it would still top at 83ish mph right bt how fast would it pull 0-60? Would you vibe apart doing it? Sorry I am very interested in this. Any projected numbers on hp and torque?
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barenekd

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Re: Frame Differences?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 02:03:32 AM »
The top speed with the 17 tooth sprocket in the current UCE engine at 5500rpm would be about 92, but the power starts dropping off about 5000 and the bike just doesn't have the power to go faster. 98 would be the top speed at 5500 with the 18T.  Horsepower wise my G5 with an EFI muffler and K@N Filter has 19.7 hp. So just cleaning up the breathing more and getting some cams in the stock would easily run the HP up into the high 20s or low 30s. Obviously the ton is not out of the question.
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