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Author Topic: C5 Fork Tutorial  (Read 7025 times)

Ducati Scotty

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C5 Fork Tutorial
« on: June 04, 2011, 03:22:25 AM »
The full slideshow of all pics is here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#


I'm making this tutorial because the C5 fork is a little different than previous Enfield forks and I haven't seen it's disassembly well documented.  Even the factory manual glosses over things and leaves out some critical details, like which parts are reverse threaded.

A few notes first:
  • I don't advocate the use of an impact wrench to remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork though the manual and many people do.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it loosens but won't tighten again.  And impact wrenches are expensive and I don't have one.  Using the ratchets and extensions I detail should work no matter what.
  • This isn't rocket science but there is something to it.  If you doubt your abilities find a more experienced buddy to help you through it.
  • Your bike will be on a jack stand or something similar as you're wrenching away, potentially with a lot of force.  It can fall off.  That can mean damage, injury, and fire hazard if gas starts spilling.  Use caution and get some extra hands if you need help.
  • There are lots of things that are either reverse threaded or might get turned in an odd way.  Pay attention to the directions.
  • If you notice inconsistencies in the text and the pictures, do as I say not as I do.  When you can write your own tutorial instead of reading mine you can tell me what to do ;)

Special tools:
  • You'll need the usual smattering of metric wrenches, ratchets, allen keys, and pliers.  In addition you'll need a torque wrench to re-tighten some things and large sockets/wrenches to remove the front wheel.  You'll also need a jack stand or something to prop the front of the bike up with.
  • To remove the fork legs from the nacelle and the top caps from the upper fork sliders you'll need either the Enfield special tool:

    http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/maintenance-repair/tools/front-fork-main-tube-spanner.html

    a long 12mm allen key welded to a water main wrench to replicate same, or a 12mm allen key.  If you go the cheap route like I did with the 12mm allen you've got one of two choices, you can get a steel pipe to put on the short end of the allen key for leverage or just cut the short end off and use a 12mm socket on the long straight part that's left.  I recommend the second option as it gives you the convenience to use a ratchet.  

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212294512843970

    Don't bother getting a 12mm allen socket, they're expensive and probably not long enough.
  • To separate the upper and lower fork legs you'll need a 6mm allen wrench for the outside.  For the damper rod inside you'll need a ratchet, 18" extension, 4" extension, and either 10mm or 14mm allen socket.  Either works and the 10mm is usually cheaper.  If you want to use several shorter ratchet extensions together that's probably fine but it really is about 20" deep in there.
  • If you plan to replace the seals you can improvise the removal and installation tools but I really recommend getting this:

    http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/maintenance-repair/tools/sleeve-for-removing-front-fork-oil-seal.html

    It's a ring designed just to keep you from cracking the fork tops when you pry/wedge the seals out.  I've seen posts on people cracking these.  Don't crack yours and then have to wait for a replacement part.
  • Get a 5 gallon bucket.  They're nice for keeping the fork legs and long bits from rolling around in the dirt.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212269984260562

Getting the bike prepped:
  • Get the bike on the center stand and then get a jack stand or some other suitable support under the front engine mounts to hold the wheel off the ground.  Make sure this is sturdy, the bike may move around a bit while you're wrenching.  Make sure your stand won't just collapse if it gets nudged.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212255296500994
  • Before starting anything cover the tank, nacelle, and fender with towels.  Protect your paint!
  • Remove the speedo cable at the wheel and tuck or tie it back out of the way.
  • Remove the turn signals and the nuts holding them, tie them back out of the way.
  • Break the pinch bolt on the left fork leg loose.
  • Loosen the front axle and remove the front wheel.  You should be able to tilt the bike up just far enough to get it out.  Set it out of the way.  Keep track of your spacers and speedo drive unit.
  • Remove the front brake, take the line out of its guide on the fender, and tie the caliper back out of the way.  Don't let it hang by the hose.
  • Remove all the remaining fender bolts and remove the fender.  It will take some careful wiggling.  Cover it with a towel and set it aside out of the way.
  • With a large screwdriver remove the two large chrome top screws from the top of the fork legs in the nacelle.  These don't hold anything together, they're just to seal the top.  You should be able to see the 12mm allen top cap on the fork.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212257023584354

Fork leg removal:
  • Loosen the pinch bolt on one fork leg on the lower triple tree.
  • Using whatever 12mm tool you have insert it into the 12mm top cap on the leg you just loosened the pinch bolt on.  

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212355979670978
  • Protect the wires and cables the 12mm may rub against.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212367528559250
  • Cover up the shiny bits with towels.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212365938433586
  • Now turn the tool CLOCKWISE to turn the leg down and out of the nacelle.  It may take some force to break it loose.
  • Once it's moving well hold the lower slider so it doesn't fall out.
  • Once it stops moving downward as you turn it's free of the nacelle threads.
  • Re-tighten the pinch bolt.
  • The 12mm top cap is a REVERSE THREAD into the fork upper.  Using the 12mm tool turn the top cap CLOCKWISE to break it loose and turn it out of the upper fork tube.  This may take some force at the start.  The cap should have enough room in the nacelle to completely turn out of its threads from the fork leg but probably won't pop out because it's held in by an o-ring.
  • When the top cap stops moving up when you turn it's free of the internal threads.  Loosen the pinch bolt and spread the clamp a bit with a screwdriver to loosen it.
  • Turn the bars to the side, you should have just enough room to slide the leg out from the fork cover.
  • Put the leg aside or in the bucket.  Take care not to damage the threads at the top of the fork.
  • Repeat the fork removal steps with the other fork leg.

Fork leg disassembly:

Seal removal/replacement is not detailed here because I didn't do it.  Except for the special tool mentioned above to keep from cracking the fork legs it is a fairly universal process.  It's in the manuals and a million other places on the net.  The upper dust seal is easy to remove with a small pry, screwdriver, or manly fingernail.  Under that is a circlip and then the inner seal.  I did take a pic:

https://picasaweb.google.com/scottaraujo/EnfieldFork?authkey=Gv1sRgCIuiwMCp4ZfToAE#5614212354972322802

Fork reassembly:
  • Everything should be clean, clean, clean.  Especially the threads on the fork ends and top caps.
  • Have your seals and dust seals installed on the fork lowers.
  • Pass the damper rod through the rebound spring.
  • Insert the damper rod and spring into the upper leg held at a shallow angle and slide it to the bottom gently.
  • Poke and wiggle it a bit and get the damper rod end to drop out of the upper leg.
  • Insert the ratchet, extensions, and 10mm or 14mm allen socket in to hold the damper rod in place.
  • Turn the fork upper to face straight up with the ratchet on the bottom.
  • Put the internal end cap on the damper rod.
  • Slide the lower slider onto the upper leg until it seats on the damper rod internal cap.
  • Look into the bolt hole on the bottom of the slider.  It the threads are not lined up use a small screwdriver or probe to move the threads into alignment with the hole.
  • Insert the retaining bolt with the copper sealing washer and get it threaded a few turns.
  • Tighten up the retaining bolt using the 6mm allen on the bottom and the 10mm or 14mm that's already in the upper leg.  There was no torque spec so I went for 'good and tight'.
  • Turn the assembled fork leg right side up.
  • Fill it with 195ml of oil of your choosing.
  • Pump the fork leg in and out repeatedly until you clear all the air bubbles.  You'll hear and feel it when it's right.
  • Extend the fork completely.
  • Insert the spring, washer, and spacer.
  • Grease the sides of the 12mm allen top cap.
  • Using latex gloves for grip grab the top of the fork tube and presse the top cap in.  The pressure of the o-ring will keep it in once you get it past the end.
  • Remember the top cap it reverse thread.  Hold the top of the upper fork leg and using your 12mm tool of choice, turn the top cap COUNTERCLOCKWISE while pressing down.  This should start to get it threaded into the fork upper.  Get at least a few turns.  You'll complete the tightening once the fork leg is bolted into the lowe triple again.
  • Go back and disassemble and re-assemble the other fork leg.

Fork leg re-installation:
  • Remember, the fork leg with the pinch bolt goes on the right ;)
  • Put a little grease on the threads at the upper end of the fork.  This is steel going into aluminum, let's keep it from corroding in place.
  • Turn the bars and insert one fork leg into the triple tree.  Slide it up as far as you can.
  • Tighten the pinch bolt on the lower triple tree.
  • Cover all the shiny bits on top and insert your 12mm tool of choice into the fork top cap.  Protect the cables wires if needed.
  • Turn the 12mm tool COUNTERCLOCKWISE to tighten and fully seat the fork top cap in the upper fork leg.  There was not torque spec so I went with 'good and tight'.
  • Loosen the pinch bolt.
  • Now press up gently on the fork tube while turning the 12mm tool COUNTERCLOCKWISE to tighten the fork upper leg into the nacelle.  Once again, 'good and tight'.
  • Snug up the pinch bolt but not all the way.  Center the fork cover over the lower slider so the two won't scrape each other.
  • Torque the pinch bolt to 24 ft.lbs.
  • Install the large chrome top screw.
  • Repeat Installation with the other fork leg.

Final assembly:
I'm going to gloss over this a bit, it's covered lots of other places.
  • Put the fender back on, it takes a little wiggling.  VERY IMPORTANT: Make sure the divots in the sides of the fenders are centered with the fork covers.  If they're not they could rub off some paint.
  • Re-install the wheel, axle, spacers, and speedo drive.  
  • Make sure the speedo drive is at the right angle and re-attach the cable.
  • Torque the front axle to 37-51 ft.lbs.
  • Tighten the fork pinch bolt.
  • Spread the brake pads apart a bit with a clean screwdriver.
  • Re-install the front brake caliper.
  • The bike should be mostly back together and ready to come off the stand.  Take it down.
  • Fan the brake lever until the pads grab the disc again.
  • Hold the front brake and gently press down on the front end to see if it feels ok and that the fender is not scraping.
  • Re-align as needed and torque all the fender bolts and brake caliper bolts to spec.
  • Check all the bolts to make sure they are tight.
  • Re-install the turn signals.

Thanks,
Scott
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 02:38:33 AM by Ducati Scotty »

r80rt

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 07:33:55 AM »
Nice wrtie up, thanks.
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 08:40:33 AM »
Thanks for all the hard work Scotty! Looks great. Not sure if thats something I'm ready to tackle just yet but will definitely need for the future. Kudos!  ;D

Andy

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 08:57:45 AM »
Ah, thank you.   This is most useful.
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 10:08:16 AM »
FANTASTIC WRITE UP! Thank you Scott. After all that work, did you change the spring or damping? Which fork oil did you use and can the oil be changed without complete disassembly?

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 10:22:11 AM »
Scotty,
Absolutely wonderful. Many thanks for all your hard work. I was going nuts trying to decipher the service manual!

Regards,

GSS
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 10:49:15 AM »
Wow, that was amazing.  Thanks.

It is clear that I won't be attempting this by myself, and that is good for me know now.   ;)
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 08:59:10 PM »
Nice work Scott.  Thanks for the detailed write up, pictures are great.   

This is something I plan to do later.
 
Just love those teal C5's!   ;)
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Sub

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 11:03:33 PM »
Holy crap, I'm not doing that! You are brave, sir.

Why did you do anything past separating the upper legs and lower sliders? Did you just do this to replace the oil?

Wouldnt it be nice if they installed a fill and drain plug?! :)

Thanks  again for the writeup.

ps-  a few of the pic's links are off, mostly towards the middle.
pps- why not paste the pics inline with the post? :)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 01:32:50 AM »
Sub,
Brave?  Nah.  Taking apart my Ducati engine to check the cam timing a month after I got it because stopped running when the adjustable cams came loose, that took guts!

I took apart more than I needed for just the oil change just to make sure it was all clean.  Lots of stuff seems to find its way into weird places on these bikes.  Yeah, I figure a few pics would be off.  I'll fix them soon.  You've got the link to everything.  I didn't paste them inline because there are only so many you can put in one post and then it would take even longer to put this together. 

Yes, why not a simple drain and fill plug?  Especially when you're supposed to check the oil every few thousand miles, at least according to the manual.  I've been chatting with SSR and Gorilla.  We think you could easily drill and tap the top cap to add a fill bolt.  Better yet, I bet you could just drill it out and let the big chrome screw and o-ring seal it like on the G5.  I'm not sure why they didn't do that in the first place.  For a drain, a bolt on the back of the fork leg between the lowest and middle fender bolts is in just the right spot to intersect the bottom of the chamber.  Usually drains are on the side but there's much more metal on the back to tap into.  If you want to do it, that's the place for it.  Gorilla's thinking about it.  I'm usually in there changing springs and setting preload so it doesn't help me much.

Hoggy,
RE recommends 10w30 engine oil.  I used 10w Bel-Ray fork oil.  I also put in 195ml, the recommended amount.  I took out 150 and 165 from the two legs.  10w is definitely thicker and the fork moves a little slower, doesn't dive as fast.  With the right amount of oil the air space is smaller and the fork doesn't dive as far either.  Even without those attributes it just feels much better in general riding.  More solid, more planted.  Don't go adding oil to make it dive less.  I heard the reason it's now 195 is that at 200 they were blowing too many seals.

I put the stock springs and spacers back in but did find out that we have 0.7kg/mm springs.  The calculators I checked said I should be running 0.9-0.95 for my weight.  That seems a little stiff to me, it was on my Ducati when I put 0.95s in there.  And this is a lazier easy riding bike.  I think I may step up to 0.85 when money allows and probably drop to 7w oil then too.  I might go 0.9 or 0.95 when I add the side car.

Scott


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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 10:15:40 AM »
That was a great write up...Keep this for prosperity...I'm using 15 wt. Spectro but having a iron, its pretty easy to change the fork oil as u are aware....That stated, you did all the c5/g5 fellows a service going through all that...That seal removal tool is a must if u gonna replace a leakey seal...Watched a Honda tech do a seal replacement on a sportbike and he had that job done in 20 minutes or so using a similar tool..So if the money situation improves, u were suggesting changing the springs. Knowing what u know, how long do u think it would take you now to complete that upgrade?
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 10:50:19 AM »
Probably a long afternoon or two evenings.  Longer if there's beer around :)

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 04:19:16 PM »
Scott:

Very nice write up and photos. You are pretty good with words  ;).
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 07:32:39 PM »
Wowzer, good work!

I'm thinking this needs to be wikified. Anyone got webspace we can set up for this purpose?
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2011, 02:03:04 PM »
 Excellent write up Scotty. It was probably more work then taking the legs apart :D Great job man !
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2011, 02:38:58 AM »
Pic links updated, torque specs entered.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2011, 05:42:11 AM »
Thanks a ton for posting this!!

I am going to embark on replacing oil, adding fork boots, and stripping paint/polishing the lowers on my Electra fork.  Obviously there are some differences, but knowing the general scheme of things is a huge help.  I'd expected the disassembly to be a lot more like the offroad forks I'm used to.  Thought I'd just have to unbolt and pull off the lowers, not pull everything out of the casquette.

Think I'm gonna need a few weeks to find the right time to do this.  Glad I know the extent of the job now.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2011, 12:09:00 AM »
I noticed a very small bit of oil had collected on the brake hose clip above the caliper on the left fork.

I traced the source of this oil to somewhere around  the top of the left fork sheet metal tube cover.

The fluid is not brake fluid and it is very slippery like I would expect a 10-30 oil to be.

My question is, what are the chances of it getting better or worse?
This is a new motorcycle and I don't ride off road.

I should expand on this a bit.
The leak is not coming from the area of the sliding joint under the rubber boot.
It would seem to be coming from the top plug rather like the O-ring at that location is not fully sealing.
It takes several days of riding before there is any indication of oil leaking in the area.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 12:24:58 AM by Arizoni »
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2011, 09:32:16 AM »
On the G5 the chrome screws on the top of the fork tubes seal the top.  You can unscrew and remove them to inspect the o-ring.  Replace if needed and then just tighten them up. 

If you check that and re-tighten and it's still leaking I'd suspect the fork seal under the boot.  Sometimes a piece of grit gets lodged in there.  To try to clear it out get a short piece of 35mm negative film and silde it in between the fork tube and seal moving it around several times.  The holes in the edge can sometimes catch the grit and pull it out.  If it keeps leaking the seal is shot and it will not get better.  Get it repaired.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2011, 11:30:45 AM »
That´s a how-can-I-help-myself writeup that is even better than in a professional handbook. Thank´s a lot, Scott, that will save countless dropps of sweat & tears in my case  ;D
You should do that for money! You´ll get rich!
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2011, 11:32:51 AM »
No, I've tried.  Excellent bakers and mechaincs still make far less than mediocre computer geeks ;)

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2011, 02:29:26 PM »
I'm using 15 wt. Spectro but having a iron, its pretty easy to change the fork oil as u are aware....

Putting everything together, am I right in the assumption that the G5´s fork is similar to the fork of the Iron Barrels?

When I only want to change the oil, is it only necessary to open up the lower bolts and the chrome caps on the top to drain the oil at the bottom?
The difficulty, as I understood it, is to get loose the lower bolts, because in this stage of disassembly it´s not possible to counter them. Isn´t it easier then to get out the fork legs of the triple clamps and drain them by just turning the complete leg headon? In this way you´d avoid hammering / impact wrench action. Am I correct?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 02:34:22 PM by Maturin »
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2011, 02:37:21 PM »
You are correct, the G5 allows you to add oil from the top.  If you can loosen and tighten the bottom bolt without disassembling the fork you're on your way.  You can press down on the fork to help with this.  The added pressure should help hold the inner damping rod as you loosen and/or tighten the bottom bolt.

If it won't come loose or won't tighten back up you may need to remove the fork leg to sort it out. 

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2011, 03:25:35 PM »
Perfect, thanks for claryfing. I hope I can get those bolts moving  :D
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2011, 08:02:06 PM »
Thanks for the write up!  I tackled part of the job in about three hours or less.  I couldn't get the top caps on the upper legs to budge but I gave up easy because I have the G5 with the open top caps and I didn't need to take the forks apart.  I just removed the forks from the bike and dumped them upside down and pumped them for a while and got about 180cc from each fork.  Definitely worth the piece of mind and an easy job due to your writeup.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2011, 08:08:20 PM »
Could you post a pic of what the G5 fork top caps look like?  i'm curious.

I think you're supposed to have 265ml in a G5 fork so it sounds like you were fairly low too.  Someone correct me if I've misstated that.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2011, 08:52:48 PM »
My G5 Owners Manual says the front forks take 200 ml per leg.
Then it also says it takes 2.75 Liters of motor oil in the engine.  ;D
Jim
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2011, 11:36:16 PM »
Ok, then go with 200.
Scott
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 11:30:33 AM by Ducati Scotty »

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2011, 12:28:03 AM »
Thanks. This was most helpful. Will print and keep in the ongoing mechanical tips file I've created.
 ;D ;D

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2011, 11:32:16 AM »
Hang on a sec Arizoni.  The factory service manual says 265ml, not 200 as in the owner's manual.  I think this has been discussed on the forum elswhere.  Search around, you may want to add some more oil.

Spec for the C5 is 195ml but is not listed in any of the manuals.  I got that number from this and other forums.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2011, 12:10:23 PM »
That's why I mentioned the manuals screw up on the amount of oil the engine needs. :P
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2011, 12:43:32 PM »
The "Service Manual"  lists 265+2.5 ccs in each leg for the C5 and G5, page 02-7
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2011, 12:48:55 PM »
The "Service Manual"  lists 265+2.5 ccs in each leg for the C5 and G5, page 02-7
Bare

Thanks for the page reference, couldn't find it this morning.  And that's wrong for the C5.  The C5 take 195ml per leg.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2011, 01:21:42 PM »
That's why I refer to it as a "Service Manual", those are airquotes . I don't think I trust much in it. Things are very difficult to find. Not to mention the totally unusable electrical schematics. There is no index. Without a doubt the worst shop manual I've ever seen.
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 01:23:46 PM by barenekd »
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2011, 01:39:36 PM »
Hmmm... now you got me second guessing my fork oil amount. Any problems associated with adding too little oil?  I know too much and you can blow seals.  The G5 seems to work fine for me solo and two up with 200ml.  Unfortunately I already buttoned the forks up so no pics but I suspect the caps are the same except the 12mm hex goes straight through. I imagine it wouldn't take much to drill out the c5 caps or swap for g5 caps. Why do you suppose the went with soils caps anyhow? Perhaps they vent to the atmosphere less than relying on the outer caps?

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2011, 01:47:55 PM »
As long as the oil covers the damping mechanism it will 'work'.  Anything above that just lowers the air space.  The air space in forks acts as a secondary and progressive spring as it compresses.  Make it smaller and it essentially becomes more progressive since it compresses more for any amount of fork movement.

It's a very easy way to make a fork dive a little less and make it less likely to bottom.  Take it too far and as you said, you'll blow seals.

I found that the proper amount of oil made my forks less divey after some inital compression.

And from what I heard the reason the C5 is 195ml is because 200ml was blowing seals.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2011, 03:09:24 PM »
Quote
And from what I heard the reason the C5 is 195ml is because 200ml was blowing seals.

Sounds like a good reason to me!

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 03:52:18 AM »
Just a little update...

I noticed a tiny trickle of oil down one of the fork legs, looks like I've blown a seal.  I guess even 190ml is still too much oil.  I'll go with 180ml next time.  Oh well, I wanted to change the springs anyway.  I'll get some new springs, new seals, and the tool to not crack the fork when I take the seals out in a few weeks.  It's a tiny leak, nothing that needs to be addressed today.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2012, 08:57:00 PM »
Just a little update...

I had the fork apart today to measure some things.  The inside diameter is 28.92mm so we can't fit 29mm springs in there.  I'll be calling Sonic Springs to see what they might have in 28mm.

Also, I'm currently running 10wt fork oil but wanted to try lighter.  I filled the fork with 7w and could barely tell it was there.  It was like there was no compression damping at all and not much in rebound either.  Now I'm a fan of light damping but this was too far.  I didn't even put it together, just dumped it and put 10w back in.

Finally, I timed myself and it took me about an hour to get both legs off the bike and on the bench with one torn down.   A little longer to get it all back together.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2012, 03:31:06 AM »
The 26mm Sonic Springs did not work out.  Whenever the fork compressed or rebounded it made a squeaky/screachy noise, mostly on large rebounds.  I took the fork tubes out, turned them around to get the oil all over the springs, but they wouldn't quiet down.  I put the stock springs back in and they were quiet as a mouse.

I'm back to stock for now.  The 0.85kg/mm rate felt pretty good and I only had about 13mm of preload.  RaceTech makes some 28mm springs but they only go up to 0.80kg/mm.  I may try those with around 20-25mm of preload or as a base spring to cut a few coils off and raise the rate.  We'll see.  They're pricey ($140) and I've got some other things to do for the next few weeks.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2012, 09:05:29 AM »
What did the sonic springs folks say about the noise ?
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2012, 09:57:18 AM »
They said it was common to hear it until the fork got worked a little and the spring got some oil on it.  I either neede to find a nice bumpy road or take the fork legs out and turn them over to spread the oil.  I did both, no luck :(  I'm still waiting for a response to my last email.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2012, 11:02:26 AM »
Just heard back, they can't figure out what it is either.  They're sending me a prepaid label for return and giving me a full refund including shipping with no re-stocking fee.  THAT"S customer service!  I'll certainly be keeping them in mind for any future bikes.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2012, 11:27:14 PM »
Scott,
Just an FYI to add to your brilliant write up.  Our old friend ScooterBob had recommended using ATF type F for my C5 fork oil.  I modified that a little and used Amsoil Synthetic ATF instead.  All I can say is that the ride has been really nice and smooth with that.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2012, 11:52:55 PM »
Thanks.  It seems everything is an improvement from stock ;)  I think getting the proper amount in helps a lot. 

I prefer fork oil since I ca select the weight but many people use ATF of one flavor or another with good results.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2012, 11:03:26 AM »
Good Job !

Thanks !
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2012, 11:35:32 AM »
Shameless self promotion bump to get this to the top of the page.  A few people have been asking about this lately.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2012, 02:47:47 PM »
Quote
The "Service Manual"  lists 265+2.5 ccs in each leg for the C5 and G5, page 02-7
Bare

My bad!! That was supposed to be B5 and G5!
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2012, 02:50:16 PM »
You, that's what it say in my manual too.

I pulled only 155-165 out of the G5 I did, put 195 back in, and it was notably better, felt good to me.  I think the Pete Snidal manual for the old bikes says 200 too.  You could try the 265 if you want. 

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2012, 03:14:42 PM »
Scottie
I dunno. I've been thinking about changing mine soon, as soon as it cools off a little. I've got the stuff, just gotta do it. Did you push the damper rods up when you did yours? The forks are a little longer on the G5, so I been kinda kicking about 220 around in my mind. But it's a play it by ear thing. I'm going to try to measure the height of the oil in the fork legs.
Bare
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2012, 03:31:44 PM »
Both forks were totally drained, that's all that came out.

I'd say measure what comes out, I'll bet it's less than 200.  Then refill with 200.  It's very easy to add more to yours after if you think you need a little more.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2012, 12:01:31 AM »
Shamelin pointed out to me that the B5 also has the same style forks as the C5.  I could swear the first one I saw had G5 style forks and I'm sure I've mentioned that here and elsewhere.  I stand corrected.  Maybe they switched or maybe I mis-remembered.  Regardless, let's just say that any RE may have the C5 forks.  If you've got offset forks and don't have giant hex nuts on the bottoms of the legs, this tutorial is for you.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2012, 01:20:33 AM »
May be a silly question, but are the two forks swappable from left to right, or the left should only be used on left and the right on right side only.....??
Would the disk brake caliper fit on either fork ??

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2012, 10:00:18 PM »
The two sides are different so these are not swappable. I can't comment on the new straight forks.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 10:02:39 PM by GSS »
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2012, 10:43:00 AM »
Related question on a long-dormant topic...

Are the springs on this fork similar to the old Iron Barrel springs, in that the top side coils terminate in a short section where they're wound solid and static, in full contact with each other?

Or is the spacing different on this newer fork?

Thanks,

Mike

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2012, 10:45:27 AM »
These are straight rate springs, same coil spacing for the entire length.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2012, 07:50:27 AM »
Excellent write up!!

This may be a silly question, but if all I want to do is check/top up the fork oil levels in by C5 EFI classic is all I need to do is to remove the internal 12 mm hex plugs?

Regards Alan F.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2012, 11:27:38 AM »
You can't take out that top plug unless the fork leg is off the bike.  You pretty much need to take them out to do anything.  If you're just swapping oil you don't have to break it down once it's out.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2012, 11:55:20 AM »
Bugger :-(
I thought that it was a typo in the Manual "Take out front forks from vehicle, Remove Bolt cap, Check oil level"
Not a 10 min job then, like it is on my Beezers.
Job for a rainy weekend - after I buy a 12 mm allen key.

Many thanks again.
Alan F.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2012, 12:05:27 PM »
That's about as concise as it gets.  FWIW I could do that job in under an hour but I've probably done it 6 times by now.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2012, 09:07:46 PM »
Does it look like one might drill out a couple of small drain holes in the sliders ?
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2012, 01:06:44 AM »
You could.  If I were to do it I'd drill on the rear along the fender/brake bracket on the lower slider, more meat there.  You'd have to flatten that area so the bolt would seal.  You'd still have to take the fork apart and drill the top caps so you can add oil.  I think the screws with o-rings that are in there would seal it just like on the G5.  Not sure why they didn't do that in the first place.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2012, 08:15:16 AM »
Funny, the G5 has the gear for draining the forks on the bike but I'm going to have to remove them before the fork oil needs changing to replace the gators that are rapidly deteriorating anyway.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2012, 10:29:30 AM »
The "Service Manual"  lists 265+2.5 ccs in each leg for the C5 and G5, page 02-7
Bare
Thanks for the page reference, couldn't find it this morning.  And that's wrong for the C5.  The C5 take 195ml per leg.
Scott
My bad!! That was supposed to be B5 and G5!
Bare

Ok, glad we got that straightened out ;).

But - if the B5 has the same forks as the C5, does that imply that the B5 forks should also have 195 ml per leg?

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2012, 10:39:46 AM »
It does, BUT...

I believe the C5 fork is shorter overall than the G5, which could account for why we use less oil.  We need to get to a dealer and measure all three fork lengths.  Gotta see if the B5 is C5 style but G5 length. 

Also, just measure what comes out of a B5.  That might tell us a lot.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2012, 11:43:25 AM »
To much confusion in the printed source material.  I'm going with the tried and true method of others before me......... (Thanks Scott).

Witness confusion here:
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,7829.msg168946.html#msg168946
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 05:48:08 AM by bluesdaddy2 »
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2012, 11:55:09 AM »
take the fork apart and drill the top caps so you can add oil.  I think the screws with o-rings that are in there would seal it just like on the G5.

If the top of the forktube is closed, and, I drill a hole in it; Will that allow airpressure to wedge in under the upper clamp and work the tube loose from the upper clamp?

Most Japenese tubes are threaded on the inside to retain this pressure.
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2012, 01:30:44 PM »
The upper tube is threaded on the inside just like any other fork.  The only difference is that the cap has an allen head instead of a standard hex.  There's also an o-ring on there like any other fork to seal it.

I don't see how drilling it is going to help anything.  It can take an ungodly amount of force to dislodge it the first time but drilling it won't help and will just put metal shavings in your fork valves.  Don't drill the cap while it's on the fork.

I may just have to do a video one day to make this all clear.  Not now, way too much going on with the holidays.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2012, 09:28:36 PM »
I may just have to do a video one day to make this all clear.

Scott

I, for one, would not object!!!  ;)

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2012, 09:59:45 PM »
Re the B5 fork- I think it's the same size as the C5.

Here's a pic I took of my spring when I changed out my fork oil.  I counted the turns of the spring, a hash at every 5th one, and it measures roughly 47 turns.  Looking at the pics from Scotty's spring, it's pretty darn close.

I figure if the spring's the same size, the fork's the same size.

I used 195mL of fork oil during my change and haven't had any problem with leaking. or sagging.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2012, 11:22:19 PM »
Shamelin, how much force did it take you to open/loosen the 12mm top cap? (Clockwise) I wasn't able to open either of the fork top caps with Hulk force applied  :-\
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2012, 11:34:07 PM »
I had to get the caps off (the style with 28mm wrench flats) and only succeeded after, with an experienced mechanic's help, we whacked the caps a few times, using a big block of aluminum set atop the fork cap and striking it firmly with a big ball-peen hammer.

Very science-y method of doing it, I know.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2012, 11:40:28 PM »
It was a struggle.  Here's how I overcame:

I picked up a long L-shaped 12mm hex wrench and cut the short end off, leaving a straight 12mm hex. I slipped the uncut end of the hex into the top cap. I then took a 12mm standard wrench and put it over the hex.  Using a second wrench, I wedged it into the crescent end of the first, increasing my leverage.  I then pushed and pulled with all my might, without much initial success.  Once I combined Spanish profanity with brute strength, it finally budged.

In retrospect, I probably didn't need to cut the hex wrench- I could have just slipped the wrench through the hex and then into the top cap, but it made it easier to adjust the wrench position for maximum leverage.  By far, getting the top cap off was the most difficult part of the job.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2012, 11:53:17 PM »
Wow guys. I must admit it was a huge struggle for myself. I mean, even with the pinch bolts very tight, the force I was applying started moving/turning the whole fork leg instead of the top cap.

Also tried holding the fork legs in between my legs and what not. Even took help from my grandfather but we couldn't even budge it, lol.

I will also need to use those 'science-y methods' the next time I try opening the cap. Will let you know how I go.
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2012, 12:12:15 AM »
I used a breaker bar and way more force than seemed prudent.  Giving them a few love taps is a really good idea.  I use that method on many fasteners.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2012, 08:09:15 AM »
I'm getting ready to change my fork oil - assembling the tools and materials I need, getting myself psyched, working out at the gym, brushing up on my spanish profanity (and learning some in other languages, too, just in case)...

At the risk of stepping on Scotty's toes, I'm posting this link in case anybody might find it helpful:

http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle/images/Ducati_Scottys_C5_Fork_Tutorial.pdf

It's the origin of this thread, his tutorial, in PDF format with the pics ebedded - I compiled it for myself so I could print it out and have it handy.  It's a bit sloppy, but I tried to keep the pics with the appropriate text, etc.  The links should work; they do for me on my computer.  I also didn't do much with photo resolution - I kept them high quality so they hopefully would print clearly (I haven't tried printing it yet, so no promises).  The file is about 2.5 Mb.

I brought it to his attention; he approved it, and was going to sort some way of hosting or posting it, but we all know how it is.  So in the meantime, I'll leave it on my server.  Hope this is ok, Scotty!!

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2012, 08:01:04 PM »
Mattsz, There is nothing sloppy about it; pictures are of perfect size for close examination. Really handy file as on computer as in print.
You've just made Ducati Scott's outstanding write-up so much more useable. Welldone,  8)

As per Spanish profanity: do throw in some french for a philosophical and sophisticated touch. And beware of the Spanish inquisition... (all three of them) ;D
moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2013, 04:35:17 AM »
Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but while I'm thinking about it... if there's such nasty gunk in the forks, should I "wash" them out with anything to really clean them of the junk, before I put my clean liquid gold in them?

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2013, 07:38:04 AM »
Yes, clear that out. Some mild solvent or degreaser should do. 

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2013, 10:49:41 AM »
Something like mineral spirits?  Should I try to pump it through the works, or maybe just give them a good shake with the stuff inside?

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #80 on: January 05, 2013, 02:57:20 PM »
I would just put it in, slosh it around, and drain. After you let it dry for a while slop in a little oil, slosh it around, drain.  Then move on to refilling them.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2013, 05:52:14 PM »
I'll do that, Scotty, thanks!  Is mineral spirits a good choice?

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2013, 06:59:58 PM »
Scotty probably knows best but if it were my bikes forks I would not use mineral spirits.

I would just use the oil I planned on filling the forks with.  Slosh it around and run the fork thru its compression (without the spring if it were out) and then dump the oil.

My idea would be to wash out whatever sludge might have accumulated in there while leaving a lubricant that would fully protect the parts if it somehow remained after it was dumped.

The problem with anything else is there is no way to totally get whatever is put inside out so some of it will end up in the 'working fluid' when I'm done.
If you used a solvent or "spirits" of any kind (other than the real oil) some of it will remain behind to contaminate the good oil.
Jim
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2013, 11:06:40 PM »
Good point Arizoni.  A flush or two with a cheap quart of motor oil is probably a better idea.  I always think in terms of the forks totally disassembled, but if you're just doing a drain and fill you'll likely leave some solvent in there.  Not the end of the world but not the best move either.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2013, 04:32:30 AM »
Thanks guys!  I'm just doing a wash, rinse and repeat this first time, so I'll stick with the oil flush...

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2013, 06:13:32 AM »
Bump, for clarification!

The function of my forks is fine, and the seals don't leak, so all I'm going to do is swap the oil.

Scotty, about half-way through the "Fork Leg Disassembly" section:

  • Turn the fork leg upside down and pour the oil into a catch container.  Pump the fork in and out several times while upside down until you can hear that all the oil is out.

also found on page 8 of the PDF file - http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle/images/Ducati_Scottys_C5_Fork_Tutorial.pdf



I assume that this is the point at which I can stop, refill and reassemble?  I plan to "rinse" the old stuff out with clean oil before the final fill, but I just wanna be sure about how far to take the disassembly!

If so, then I don't need the 20 inches of ratchet extensions, and I don't need to "separate the upper legs and lower sliders"?


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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2013, 09:32:06 AM »
Yes, exactly.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2013, 06:49:27 AM »
@mattsz

Any updates? Did you manage to open the reverse thread 12mm top cap of the fork leg on your B5?
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2013, 05:47:41 PM »
JVS -

No updates... I haven't attempted the job yet.  But soon... and I promise I'll report back!

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2013, 08:11:09 AM »
Today's the day.

Anyone done this on a B5 and can confirm the fork oil quantity?  I'll measure what comes out, but just wondering...

I believe the consensus is that the B5 fork is the same as the C5; Scotty says it's 195ml.  My owners manual says "200 m / leg." which, I assume, means 200ml each side.

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2013, 08:18:45 AM »
I've had the forks off twice on my B5. Both of the times I have been unable to open the top caps. Next time I am planning to use a heat gun to kill them forks. I've had enough haha. I think the factory or dealer prep made use of excessive loctite type of solution to ensure the tightness of those caps..at least on my forks. Oh well!

Oh and I would go with 190ml per leg just to be on the safe side. Either way, 190 or 195, it will be more than the lame black sluggish thing that seeps out.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:24:43 AM by JVS »
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mattsz

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2013, 08:34:44 AM »
Ah, that's why you were asking how I managed.

Don't take this the wrong way, JVS, but... Scotty points out that the cap is a reverse thread - you weren't tightening, were you?  Sorry, but I had to ask!  ;)

To battle!!!

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2013, 08:56:25 AM »
Don't take this the wrong way, JVS, but... Scotty points out that the cap is a reverse thread - you weren't tightening, were you?  Sorry, but I had to ask!  ;)
To battle!!!

Yes sir. Reverse thread...still didn't budge.

Anyways, just some advice before you start off -

Please get another person to help you out if possible. Especially when you are trying to get the fender off. It is a tad tricky and you have very little room to take it out against the forks. You have to tilt it and move it gently towards the bottom to clear the forks. In this process you can easily add a few scratches/scuffs to the fender. So either cover it up properly with something, or have a second set of hands available for precise removal of said fender. Or both.  :D

Good luck.
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #93 on: June 26, 2013, 09:04:00 AM »
Yes, 200ml per side.  The C5 uses 195 because people on the Indian sites were blowing seals at 200.  Not sure if the B5 fork is taller than the C5 or not.  195, 200, either should do fine.  I expect you'll get between 135 and 165 out.  That's part of the problem, under filled at the factory.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #94 on: June 26, 2013, 09:36:43 AM »
Scotty,

that's a fine piece of work.  Do you know how much of this is applicable to G5 forks? I have compared the parts diagrams of [2009 500cc Electra EFI (E5 & G5)]  and [2010 500cc Bullet Classic EFI (C5)] forks on the hitchcocks site, and there seem to be significant differences.  For instance, the C5 fork has a rebound spring, and the G5 fork does not.

Cheers,

Blair
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1954 Francis Barnett Falcon 70

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2013, 10:46:32 AM »
JVS-

Thanks for the advice.  My fender and fork covering tubes are already ruined from a bad dealer installation, so I tried a couple of different removal dances and found one I like.  I'll take care when putting the new ones on...

I'm taking a lunch break, in the middle of the job right now.  I've got the forks off the bike with the caps off.  I thought I'd add my $0.02 while I'm here...

I printed Scotty's tutorial, and have it in front of me in the garage.  Everything is exactly as he's said so far.  I'm using the cut-off long end of a 12mm allen wrench -  I took a couple of additional protective steps which seemed to help.  First, I removed both ends of the clutch cable from the lower arm and handlebar lever, pulled a couple of inches up through the nacelle, and tied the upper cable end back out of the way towards the handlebar mounting plate, to get it further away from the rotating allen tool, and in case I did damage the casing, I could wrap it with tape and slide it back down inside the nacelle, out of sight and ostensibly protected from the weather.  That was good, because the allen wrench quicky chewed through my rags and just began to scuff the cable housing.  Then I wrapped most of the length of the allen tool with some electric tape to soften the corners, removed all of the rags so I could see what I was doing, and I found that I could take a single turn of triple-thickness rag around the tool itself and let it rotate with the tool against the cables rather than let the tool rotate against the rag.  Worked a treat, and all I had to do when I was done was wipe some rag lint off the cable housing and rubber grommit it passes through.

The removal of the clutch cable gave me the additional advantage of being able to brace against the left side of the handle bar while I tried to break those difficult reverse-thread fittings - standing at the left-front of the bike, tool in two hands for strength and stability, the handle bar against my hip.  Worked great.  The fork legs weren't all that tight; I had no trouble loosening them.  The caps were tight, but I was just able to break them loose using my 18" breaker bar while bracing the handlebar against my hip.

Full disclosure: I mistakenly completely removed both legs before I loosened the caps, so I had to go back a step and clamp them back into the triple tree to get to the caps.  Since the uppers appear to be exactly the same, I used the left-side triple tree mount to loosen both caps, so I could take advantage of my left-side handle bar bracing trick.

When I removed the fork legs, I found the top caps free of the threads, but also popped up free beyond the o-ring, just sitting there for me to pick up - if I tip the fork, it'll fall right off.  It feels like an internal spring is pushing it.  I don't know if that suggests anything, good or bad, about springs or oil quantities or whatever, but it's one less little hurdle..


mattsz

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2013, 11:14:30 AM »
Also: my caps are steel, not aluminum.  Just sayin...  ;)

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2013, 11:43:57 AM »
I don't know, guys.  I've emptied one fork - it's full of a dark oily liquid that smells a lot like the new oil I have.  Accounting for what's still dripping out onto the newspaper, I'd say I had very close to 200ml.  Where's my under-filling of nasty green sludge?  I hope I'm not wasting my time here!  ;)




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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2013, 12:08:39 PM »
Mattsz,
Excellent idea to remove the clutch cable and get it out of the way!  I'll have to add that.  Mine is chewed up too, I just put some heat shrink over it.  The oil in there is low quality, and it looks like you've got not quite 180ml.  The extra 20ml you add when you put it back and the fact that almost all aftermarket oil is better quality should make a difference.  Interesting that your top caps are steel.  All my bikes have been aluminum but one on the C5 loses a thread or two every time I take it out.  I wouldn't mind a more durable piece.

Blairio,
The G5 fork is fairly different.  If you just want to change the oil, you don't need to remove the legs since you can drain from the bottom, then refill by simply removing the top screw.  If you want to take them apart for service or chaging springs I think you can do it with the legs still in the nacelle.  I think the top caps are permanently attached, you you can get the guts out of the bottom with a special tool.  I had worked on a friend's G5 and was told I just needed a good hammer blow to get past where I was stuck and pull it all apart, but it wasn't my bike and I didn't want to risk it.  I just buttoned them back up and put in new oil.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #99 on: June 26, 2013, 12:14:35 PM »
Scotty-

Thanks!  The old oil seems to be the same viscosity, and odor, as the new Motul "medium 10w" fork oil I'm replacing it with.  Doesn't mean it's the same quality, though, of course!  I let the fork drain for awhile onto my paper-covered work surface and easily left another 10ml sitting there.

Never mind.  Even if I don't notice a difference, there's the possibility that my forks were badly filled, seeing as so many are, and I'm learning another something new!  I enjoy doing this stuff!

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2013, 12:19:25 PM »
Honestly, that's the first fork on any bike I've ever seen disassembled that was within 30ml of the factory spec.  I don't know why, but every make, every model, they all seem to be underfilled with crappy oil.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2013, 12:39:25 PM »
JVS-


I'm taking a lunch break, in the middle of the job right now.  I've got the forks off the bike with the caps off.  I thought I'd add my $0.02 while I'm here...

I printed Scotty's tutorial, and have it in front of me in the garage.  Everything is exactly as he's said .
Whaaaat! You Printed the tutorial.....Younshould only use a iPad for reference and that too the newest generation, that will ensure no mistakes Matt... ;)
Good Job Matt, I did my forks using Scottie's tutorial Via iPad bout 8 months ago, you will notice the difference.
Cheers
"A Blast from my Past"
Mark F   (Northern, CA)
Black C5 2011

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2013, 12:56:39 PM »
I need a garage iPad.  I don't think my wife would appreciate my greasy paw marks all over hers.

Then again, the manuals I love the most are the ones I have with all the greased up, dog eared pages.  Still something to be said for paper.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2013, 04:51:48 PM »
SCotty,

thanks for the heads up on draining / refilling the G5 / Electra forks.  That is pretty much all the fork maintenance I am planning on for a good few years.  The gaiters on the G5  / Electra should give the fork seals & stanchions a pretty easy time of things.

Is it just me, or does the model name 'Electra' sound much more romantic than 'G5'?   There are too many numbers in modern vehicle names. Which sounds better 'BMW 1 Series' or 'Alfa Romeo Giulietta'?
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2013, 05:21:44 PM »
The US totally got the boring name scheme.

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2013, 08:12:58 PM »
The US totally got the boring name scheme.
Japanese cars used to be named after flowers.  I think the numbers appeal to a wider demographic than teenage girls.  ;D

Motul is a premium fork oil.  The seals will be happier with it as well you should have less "stiction" as people call it.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:15:14 PM by D the D »
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2013, 10:43:09 PM »
Well done mattsz!
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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2013, 03:47:47 AM »
Well done mattsz!

Wait for it, JVS - I still have to put it back together...  ;D

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2013, 12:08:24 PM »
The job is done - it was easy with Scotty's written help!  The only thing I would add is a modifier to my modifier - I still ended up chewing up my clutch cable housing a little bit...  even the electric tape I wrapped around the allen wrench got mucked up, as you'll see in the photo.  The two cables that come through the left side opening of the nacelle really impinge on the space the tool needs to turn.

I finally sussed it during reassembly.  I tied the clutch cable forward, toward the headlight - that separated the two cables for a little more clearance.  I threw all the protective rags away, and replaced them with a roughly 1"x3" piece of aluminum flashing with some tape on the bottom to protect the nacelle's paint, and bent into a U around the opening.  Problem really solved - I can see what I'm doing, and the cables are well protected:



As for the job?  Keep in mind that this is, for all intents and purposes, my first bike, and I've only been riding a year... if I hold the front brake and push the front end down, I think it's smoother than before, but honestly, I really don't notice a difference while riding.  Same thing with my Hagon rear shock replacement - it looks better, but it doesn't feel any different.  Like I said before, it's a good experience, and hopefully I've improved the bike's handling ability for safety's sake, but it feels like the same ride to me. 

I was more careful about collecting the old oil from the second fork; I managed to grab almost 190ml from it - maybe simply having near the right quantity of oil was enough.  If so, I can't imagine what bad shocks must be like...

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2013, 12:15:12 PM »
The righ quantity is most important.  It creates an air space of known size that acts as a progressive spring.  Too little oil = too much air = too soft a spring, and it tends to bottom on hard stops and wallow in corners.  Better quality oil of a good viscosity matters too and will last longer and perform better but quantity is key.

Job well done!

Scott

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Re: C5 Fork Tutorial
« Reply #110 on: July 02, 2013, 12:49:00 AM »
Quote
Then again, the manuals I love the most are the ones I have with all the greased up, dog eared pages.  Still something to be said for paper.

Scottie: Yeah, even though I build my own I still don't have complete faith in any computer, regardless of format. Fantastic job on the tutorial, and many thanks in advance for when I do it!

mattsz: Beautiful job putting that tutorial into a .pdf!! I now have it on portable drive, and printed/added to my manuals, so I'm covered. And good thinking re the aluminum shield for the job! Thanks!
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