Author Topic: When does the new engines and New designs come out. (Read 13263 times)

deezildennis · « **on:** July 23, 2007, 01:45:43 PM »

I just saw the Yout tube movie with RE Corp stating they will have a FI Engine and some new designs out soon.

Any Idea when that is going to happen? Will the states get the FI engine?

Robb · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2007, 04:31:22 PM »

It'll be a few years for U.S. models, according to every source I've heard. I truly hope they don't try to sell this 7/8 scale sportster here:

The U.S. DOES NOT need another cruiser looking bike, IMHO. Please, RE, don't ruin our 'vintage' bikes! I hope they just add the improved engines into the existing styling.

hutch · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2007, 05:10:17 PM »

Quote from: Robb on July 23, 2007, 04:31:22 PM

It'll be a few years for U.S. models, according to every source I've heard. I truly hope they don't try to sell this 7/8 scale sportster here:

The U.S. DOES NOT need another cruiser looking bike, IMHO. Please, RE, don't ruin our 'vintage' bikes! I hope they just add the improved engines into the existing styling.

I second that statement, although the new engine looks to much like a Suzuki Savage motor. I currently own bikes from 230cc to 1639cc and if I was to choose one, it would be my 05 Bullet Classic. My second choice would be my Suzuki 650 Savage single. It is faster, but when it comes to great dealers and distributor, dependability and ease of maintainance, not to mention that British look and pure riding enjoyment, the Royal Enfield wins hands down. Ride safe Hutch

justin_o_guy · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2007, 03:54:39 PM »

I've clicked on the "Red X" & hit the show picture & hit refresh several times. Is there another site I can go to so i can see this engine? I dunno what MPG they are talking about getting out of it, but to get rid oif a carb & go to a system I can fix if it messes up, it would have to offer me some incredible gains.

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2007, 06:45:18 PM »

Relax boys and girls I can tell you first hand with absolute certainty that there are no pictures of the new bike which will be introduced in England this Fall (in theory). Unless you happen to run across one in the Italian Alps being tested they have not been seen in public. I saw it last fall at the Royal Enfield Distributors meeting in Cologne Germany as did a hand full of people. The new engine is pictured on the internet somewhere though. Everyone will get their chance to weigh in on the bike this Fall. Personally I like it. Also don't worry about the Classic look going away. I have seen a bike that they plan on releasing perhaps in 2009 that is better looking than the current classic.

deejay · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2007, 08:36:14 PM »

Quote from: Royal Enfield 1 on July 25, 2007, 06:45:18 PM

I have seen a bike that they plan on releasing perhaps in 2009 that is better looking than the current classic.

Blasphemy! No bike looks better than the current classic!

RagMan · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2007, 10:28:20 PM »

It would have to something truly spectacular to look better than mine. I still just sit and look at the thing.

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2007, 02:50:04 PM »

think G model

Robb · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2007, 02:58:04 PM »

Quote from: Royal Enfield 1 on July 27, 2007, 02:50:04 PM

think G model

SWEET! I call dibs on the first one into the U.S.!

RagMan · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2007, 03:20:23 PM »

I want the second, OK?

justin_o_guy · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2007, 12:56:14 PM »

A picture of a G model would sure be cool for those of us not well versed in the different models & their differences.
Also, will it be FI? Any MPG claims you are aware of? The things seem to be pretty phenomenal for a 500cc thumper, already. If they can offer some wild MPG with the FI, I can envision some trade ins.

RagMan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2007, 02:24:10 PM »

Fuel injection is great, if you don't mind going to a dealer to get things fixed. Carburetters are much easier. The fuel delivery, and usually the mileage of FI is to be desired, but the trade off in ease of maintenance may well be too much for many of us. I have a FI bike.. I don't think I want another. I have an old fuel injected truck that hasn't run right for 10 years.. I can do nothing with it.

alwscout · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2007, 05:07:37 PM »

I agree with Indiana about the FI. I've had both carb and FI on my airboats and I much prefer the carb for maintenance reasons over the few extra HP from the FI. FI is great when it's running right but I hated it when things started to act up.

I can't wait to see what this "new" bike might look like if it's produced............

Adam

hutch · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2007, 05:08:41 PM »

Quote from: IndianaBulleteer on July 29, 2007, 02:24:10 PM

Fuel injection is great, if you don't mind going to a dealer to get things fixed. Carburetters are much easier. The fuel delivery, and usually the mileage of FI is to be desired, but the trade off in ease of maintenance may well be too much for many of us. I have a FI bike.. I don't think I want another. I have an old fuel injected truck that hasn't run right for 10 years.. I can do nothing with it.

I agree whole heartedly with those statements. I don't carry a PC in my back pocket to remap a fuel system, just a screw driver will do. My 2002 6 cyclinder GMC Sonoma got 22mpg when I bought it, now it is 16mpg or less. The truck only has 45,000 miles and been screwing up for 20,000. Dealer has changed everything and can't figure it out. Not just one but two dealers. They both gave up. My sons truck did the same thing, an s-10 same year. My 289 hot rod motor that is built to the gills with a Holley 4-barrel gets 20mpg. Go figure!! Hutch

Robb · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2007, 04:06:04 PM »

I totally disagree. EFI is so much simpler than carb tuning that you can't even compare the two in the same breath.
It is a common misconception that you have to re-map the computer when you change something. That is flat wrong. An EFI system is engineered to keep the engine running at optimum fuel / air ratio regardless of atmospheric conditions. Therefore if you do things like changing out an air filter or add a performance exhaust, the EFI system automatically compensates and keeps the A/F ratio within a set range at all throttle positions and under varying loads. A carburettor simply can't do that. A carb is at best a compromise, it can never constantly adjust itself like EFI can.
The reason that many people re-map their EFI system's VE (Volumetric Efficiency) tables is to remove lean running under certain conditions that are put in place for emmisions reasons. Most have been sold a bill of goods, that they need these piggy-back boxes to adjust the system for the pipes they have installed. To a very small extent, that's true. But only with regard to absolute peak performance across throttle position and loads. For 99.9% of street riding the stock maps will work just fine, regardless of which pipe has been installed.
For me, even if I have to hook up a lap top to my system and take 15 or so seconds to download a new map, that sure beats the crap out of busting out the tools and rejetting a carb (or multiple carbs), where you're looking at an hour minimum, and you'd better hope you guessed correctly on jet size, or you'll have to do it all over again.

RagMan · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2007, 06:05:00 PM »

For those of us without laptops. . . .

prof_stack · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2007, 09:25:43 PM »

It almost seems like a non sequitur to put EFI on a Royal Enfield. But that was also said about electronic ignition. Oh, let's not forgot the electric starter. EFI done right takes care of emission concerns and compensates for air and temperature conditions. Bikes run smoothly with virtually no warm up time needed. Its a win-win proposition.

Even Harleys have no carbs anymore. Seems the worries about the RE's are about motor durability and reliability.

Will the new engine have hydraulic valves that don't need adjusting? I sure got spoiled with them on my Buell. And all the other stuff as well.

BUT, would someone please post a pic of the proposed new engine and/or frame design?

justin_o_guy · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2007, 07:46:47 AM »

Well, I DO have a laptop( available) & would consider adjusting FI setups IF I had even the slightest clue on what to connect to ,to gather data & then how to input to the Brain on the bike to get it to change. What software is needed?How can I learn to do this?

Didn't the old variable venturi carb address a lot of these problems?

I think I want a Classic 5 speed w/ electric start and an electra & when they come out, a fuel injected model. That way I could stop trying to figure which ONE I want.
With all these programmed changes, what will they Stop building? I wonder,,

hutch · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2007, 09:15:52 AM »

Quote from: prof_stack on July 31, 2007, 09:25:43 PM

It almost seems like a non sequitur to put EFI on a Royal Enfield. But that was also said about electronic ignition. Oh, let's not forgot the electric starter.

The only way I would buy a Electra is if it can be converted back to points. I have had nothing but bad luck with electronic ignition on cars and bikes. Now that I know you can't put points on an Electra, I won't be buying one. One lost sale. I will stick with my Classic and 67 RE Interceptor. I changed every car and truck back to point distributor except the gas guzzling Sonoma I now own. I just finished up a Triumph chopper to sell and went with the Boyer electronic ignition, lasted 2 months. It now has a dependable Joe Hunt mag with points, no problem. Every bike I had with hydraulic lifters has been changed to solids for better performance. I won;t own a bike with EFI with the luck I have had. These so called improvements are just a way for you to take it back to the dealer and for people who don't want to get their hands dirty. I myself enjoy working on and tweeking my bike, that is called getting in tune with your machine. I like things I can fix on the side of the road, since any vehicle tends to NOT break in the garage. Kickstarts are sure nice when your battery is low. The relationship of a rider and a bike should be the same as a husband and wife. It takes just a little attention now and then to really keep things working. How long would a marriage last if you rode her hard and ignored her the rest of the time? I don't ride bikes, I love bikes, and that takes work. The reason I bought a RE in the first place is because they hadn't messed them up with all this new garbage that breaks and leaves you stranded. I guess the slogan 'Untainted by Technolgy" just went out the window. That is sad to say the least. Hutch

deejay · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2007, 12:13:04 PM »

Quote from: hutch on August 01, 2007, 09:15:52 AM

Quote from: prof_stack on July 31, 2007, 09:25:43 PM
It almost seems like a non sequitur to put EFI on a Royal Enfield. But that was also said about electronic ignition. Oh, let's not forgot the electric starter.
The only way I would buy a Electra is if it can be converted back to points. I have had nothing but bad luck with electronic ignition on cars and bikes. Now that I know you can't put points on an Electra, I won't be buying one. One lost sale. I will stick with my Classic and 67 RE Interceptor. I changed every car and truck back to point distributor except the gas guzzling Sonoma I now own. I just finished up a Triumph chopper to sell and went with the Boyer electronic ignition, lasted 2 months. It now has a dependable Joe Hunt mag with points, no problem. Every bike I had with hydraulic lifters has been changed to solids for better performance. I won;t own a bike with EFI with the luck I have had. These so called improvements are just a way for you to take it back to the dealer and for people who don't want to get their hands dirty. I myself enjoy working on and tweeking my bike, that is called getting in tune with your machine. I like things I can fix on the side of the road, since any vehicle tends to NOT break in the garage. Kickstarts are sure nice when your battery is low. The relationship of a rider and a bike should be the same as a husband and wife. It takes just a little attention now and then to really keep things working. How long would a marriage last if you rode her hard and ignored her the rest of the time? I don't ride bikes, I love bikes, and that takes work. The reason I bought a RE in the first place is because they hadn't messed them up with all this new garbage that breaks and leaves you stranded. I guess the slogan 'Untainted by Technolgy" just went out the window. That is sad to say the least. Hutch

Amen.

prof_stack · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2007, 01:22:46 PM »

Amen.

An understandable response to newer technologies. And perhaps with the RE the "simpler" the better. Makes sense.

But I wonder what Royal Enfield USA sees as their future buyer. Emissions standards, noise restrictions, and quality control are obviously big areas of concern. To me there are still too many question marks in RE quality for a new bike (Electra). Heck, I'd be happy to have a RE thumper on par with my old '78 SR500. I don't think RE is there yet.

luoma · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:26:36 PM »

Robb, we have also heard proclaim that electronic ignition is harder to work on than points. What they fail to mention is that under most conditions, EI doesn't need to be worked on, ever. I think some old timers (and I am one), like the hands-on experience of fiddling with carbs.

RagMan · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2007, 07:35:43 PM »

I have had WAY more hassle with Electronic ignition, than I have with points. I can change points, and troubleshoot the system pretty well, but have rarely had to. Two electronic ignitions I have had, were not so kind.

deejay · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:06:55 PM »

Quote from: luoma on August 04, 2007, 05:26:36 PM

I think some old timers (and I am one), like the hands-on experience of fiddling with carbs.

Great, I just turned 30 a few months ago and already I am considered an old timer.

Robb · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:43:39 PM »

Quote from: IndianaBulleteer on August 04, 2007, 07:35:43 PM

I have had WAY more hassle with Electronic ignition, than I have with points. I can change points, and troubleshoot the system pretty well, but have rarely had to. Two electronic ignitions I have had, were not so kind.

Interesting. Were these ignition systems that you have installed yourself, or were they OEM parts on the vehicles you refer to, and what vehicles were they? The last car I had with points ignition was a 1971 VW Beetle, and as far as bikes, I haven't seen points on a new bike other than an RE since the early 80's. My current project bike, a 1975 CB750F SuperSport has points, but the Dyna ignition is on the bench awaiting the engine rebuild.

No way I'd leave points on any vehicle where the option existed to change to electronic, but to each his own, I guess. BTW, I switched Diane's Military to electronic ignition earlier this year, and haven't had a single issue. It starts without any hesitation, idles smoothly, and is a pure pleasure to operate since I sorted the carb out and got the valves adjusted correctly.

The simple fact is that EFI is the norm now and forever shall be, given ever tightening emissions regulations. Luckily, CMW has plenty of carby stuff to bolt onto our RE's to keep everyone happy for years and years once the EFI bikes come out.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love our RE and fiddling with the carb is actually fun, trying to get the perfect setting and such. Frustrating at times, but fun nonetheless. Carburettors are a black art to me, where as the digital goodness of EFI and electronic ignitions make perfect sense. I believe in facts and numbers, not guess work and emotion, so while I appreciate the 'basicness' of a carb, I really enjoy tweaking to the Nth degree with a number that can be quantified. Pretty deep, huh?

scoTTy · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:51:44 PM »

ok.. but i don't have a laptop.. $:-\$

Robb · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2007, 11:10:35 PM »

Sigh...... [pounds head against wall]

You won't need one.

hutch · « **Reply #27 on:** August 05, 2007, 07:52:57 AM »

Quote from: Robb on August 04, 2007, 11:10:35 PM

Sigh...... [pounds head against wall]

You won't need one.

But you will need a truck or trailer when it dies, in either case. been there, done that. My electronic ignition died 200 miles from home on Sunday. Shut the bike off, went to start later, nothing. If it would have been points I could have run a piece of emery cloth or even a dollar bill through them and got home. You can check points periodicly for pitting and change them, there is no warning with electronic. Give me a carb and screwdriver. If RE ever puts a belt final drive on I will shoot somebody. The way the RE is set up is like my Harley was. The belt would be captured behind the primary drive. Once again stranded. The HD softail I was riding is even worse. The belt is also captured by the rear swing arm and has to be removed also. Harley lists it as a 8 hour job to change a $159 belt. Glad I do my own work. I have also had 2 boyer electronic ignitions burn up on a Triumph. It now runs great with the Joe Hunt magneto with one set of points. I have bought more mags for my bikes over the years than I can count. Never ever had a problem. I'm spending $1200 to put one on my 120hp custom so I can eliminate the rest of the electronic garbage off of it. All the rest of the wiring is all ready gone. There will be 6 wires on the bike for charging battery and running lights. I like simple and fixable on the side of the road. Never been stranded with a bike I sat up that way. I have been stranded over belt drive and electronic ignition. They are not for me. Hutch

Thumper · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2007, 08:02:00 AM »

After rebuilding the engine on my 2000 650 Ural, I managed to bung up the electronic ignition upon reinstallation. So I swapped in points instead. Man, I'd forgotten what a pain they are! Especially Russian ones. I carried an entire spare CB points ignition with me at all times. Had to use it twice. Once with an aftermarket GM-based points failure (which were marketed as being of higher quality than the Russian ones.

Electronic ignition is here to stay. It's more reliable, more effective and requires no maintenance (inspection is optional).

There is virtually no market for points ignitions - and there is a reason for that.

Matt

prof_stack · « **Reply #29 on:** August 05, 2007, 09:24:43 AM »

Hutch, it appears you are the poster boy for bad karma!

In 20 years with 2 Harleys I never had a problem with ignitions or belt drive. The Electra-Glide belt had a rock imbedded in it and the dealer for years said not to worry about it. I didn't.

As for being stranded on the road, that's a pain but very rare. Towing insurance is cheap. Barring that, a pickup truck works nicely. However, I do admire your do-it-yourself approach to the RE.

hutch · « **Reply #30 on:** August 05, 2007, 01:24:22 PM »

Quote from: Thumper on August 05, 2007, 08:02:00 AM

There is virtually no market for points ignitions - and there is a reason for that.

Matt

I sure hope they keep making them for me. I am not the only one with a dislike for elecronic ignition. I like to continue my vacation with new points, not cut it short and go home. I know they last longer, but when they quit you are done. That is all I was trying to point out in a nice way. Hutch

hutch · « **Reply #31 on:** August 05, 2007, 01:55:22 PM »

Quote from: prof_stack on August 05, 2007, 09:24:43 AM

Hutch, it appears you are the poster boy for bad karma!

In 20 years with 2 Harleys I never had a problem with ignitions or belt drive. The Electra-Glide belt had a rock imbedded in it and the dealer for years said not to worry about it. I didn't.

As for being stranded on the road, that's a pain but very rare. Towing insurance is cheap. Barring that, a pickup truck works nicely. However, I do admire your do-it-yourself approach to the RE.

It kind of bums you out to cut your vacation short and call a freind to drive miles and miles to pick your bike up. I thought I was the poster child until I deciced to change my Suzuki Savaga 650 to a chain. At first everyone on the Savage forum thought I was nuts and couldn't do it. After a lot of searching I figured out the sprockets off another Suzuki would work and changed over. In the mean time several people told me of there horror stories with belts. I didn't feel alone anymore. I got stranded twice on 2 different Harley's. One lady broke her belt just from the little stone that they use to mix with tar to patch the roads on her Harley. I like carrying a spare half link and master link. I wouldn't know where to carry all the tools and a spare belt on my bike. I like simple, even it does not last as long, at least you can fix it on the side of the road and continue on your way without AAA. Several people have changed over their Suzuki Savage now and can't believe what a difference it makes to choose your gearing instead of being stuck with the factory gearing. Mine will now do 95mph and cruise at 75mph all day.plus my mileage went up to 70mpg from 50. With the belt stock gearing it was screaming rpm's at 70mph. What can I say, I am a compulsive tinkerer. It gets me closer to my bikes. I remember my dad had a fit when I tore his broken record player apart, I was 10 , I put it back together and it worked. I was hooked on those gears in there. He had a nother fit when I spent my life savings on my first bike at fifteen and tore the motor apart to see how it worked, it was still under warranty and not broke. Just got hooked and continued with rebuilding any motor I found. Hot rods, tractors you name it. I love to tear a motor apart, put it back together and I get the greatest feeling when she fires up and purrs like a kitten.Uncle Sam even had me rebuilding truck and tank motors for a while. I can't sleep at night sometimes when trying to come up with a new way to fab up a suicide shift or chop a fender and relocate this or that. It has been the same thing for 40+ plus years. I guess it is just in my blood. I love bikes, most any bike, but I always simplify what the factory complicates I love to take a bike down to the basic things it needs to run and stop, the rest is not needed. I never have to buy electrical wire. I always have a pile of it in the corner from the last bike I stripped all the useless stuff off of. Simplicity and fixability anywhere is my goal. Been stranded to many time with the factory stuff. Even if something went wrong on my stripped down bikes I could fix it and get home, have never been stranded once on one of my stripped bikes. That I like. I must be a bike nut, in the winter I have 3 bikes setting in my house on new carpeting. One in the living room, one in the den, and one in the dining room. Wouldn't want them to get cold all winter. Besides I come up with my best ideas when just staring at the lines of the bike for hours. Yup I am a bike nut, always have been. I just had my gravestone delivered, it has my Iron cross and skull avatar on it and a simple inscription, " GONE RIDIN" Hutch

dewjantim · « **Reply #32 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:40:27 PM »

Quote from: Robb on July 31, 2007, 04:06:04 PM

I totally disagree. EFI is so much simpler than carb tuning that you can't even compare the two in the same breath.
It is a common misconception that you have to re-map the computer when you change something. That is flat wrong. An EFI system is engineered to keep the engine running at optimum fuel / air ratio regardless of atmospheric conditions. Therefore if you do things like changing out an air filter or add a performance exhaust, the EFI system automatically compensates and keeps the A/F ratio within a set range at all throttle positions and under varying loads. A carburettor simply can't do that. A carb is at best a compromise, it can never constantly adjust itself like EFI can.
The reason that many people re-map their EFI system's VE (Volumetric Efficiency) tables is to remove lean running under certain conditions that are put in place for emmisions reasons. Most have been sold a bill of goods, that they need these piggy-back boxes to adjust the system for the pipes they have installed. To a very small extent, that's true. But only with regard to absolute peak performance across throttle position and loads. For 99.9% of street riding the stock maps will work just fine, regardless of which pipe has been installed.
For me, even if I have to hook up a lap top to my system and take 15 or so seconds to download a new map, that sure beats the crap out of busting out the tools and rejetting a carb (or multiple carbs), where you're looking at an hour minimum, and you'd better hope you guessed correctly on jet size, or you'll have to do it all over again.

It takes about 10 minutes to change jets in my RE. On my airhead BMW I can do both cylinders in 5. On my ironhead, with weber 2 barrel carb, about 3 min and I just use a screwdriver on it. I know fuel injection is technically superior, but I just love those old carbs....Dew

luoma · « **Reply #33 on:** August 11, 2007, 08:41:14 PM »

After first reading this post, I went to Google and had a look at the G Model. Nice.

rickmax · « **Reply #34 on:** August 20, 2007, 09:24:47 PM »

I hear ya, Hutch!

Towing service may be cheap, but they have to be able to find you. Try breaking
down in the foothills of MO where you can't even get a cell phone signal. After all,
everyone keeps saying Enfields are made for the backroads. : >

I've probably broken down 30 times in 50 years. lol.

In the 60s, it was a way of life. Your tool kit weighed more than you did.

Progress is great, but only if you adapt to it.

I own a Chevy HHR. Great machine with Star Wars technology. But gawd help me
if I ever have a problem. There's nothing under the hood that I even recognize.

Ding Hao!

Rick

hutch · « **Reply #35 on:** August 20, 2007, 10:19:11 PM »

Quote from: rickmax on August 20, 2007, 09:24:47 PM

I hear ya, Hutch!

Towing service may be cheap, but they have to be able to find you. Try breaking
down in the foothills of MO where you can't even get a cell phone signal. After all,
everyone keeps saying Enfields are made for the backroads. : >

I've probably broken down 30 times in 50 years. lol.

In the 60s, it was a way of life. Your tool kit weighed more than you did.

Progress is great, but only if you adapt to it.

I own a Chevy HHR. Great machine with Star Wars technology. But gawd help me
if I ever have a problem. There's nothing under the hood that I even recognize.

Ding Hao!

Rick

I know what you mean about under the hood, at first I thought they left my motor out and it ran on electricty or some other thing. I remember STANDING under the hood with my feet on the ground taking heads of from a 327 Chevy motor, now you couldn't drop a marble under the hood and have it ever hit the ground, let alone ever find it.. Hutch

rural earl · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2007, 12:09:28 AM »

Isn't it nice to see all that space around a Bullet engine? I sure miss that in my current vehicles. Simplicity is the big selling point for the RE in the US, if you ask me. If EFI is the way the company chooses to go, they'd better make it simple enough for an average guy to replace or troubleshoot.

indian48 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 17, 2007, 02:28:45 AM »

I had missed this thread,,,I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed the exchanges!! The one about dropping the marble under the hood was a gem!
But what has been interesting is that both sides to the argument have a valid point of view. Both sides have argued well, and with humor that I loved.

cyrusb · « **Reply #38 on:** December 10, 2007, 10:08:13 PM »

I hear you all on the advanced technology, Yeah its great, but I bought this bike for the "lack" of it. Also, don't forget the way the new engine looks. It has the charm of a stomach pump. Really, who's going to get down and "Take in every detail" of that mill? The differences are similar to steam and diesel locomotives.

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #39 on:** December 11, 2007, 10:48:40 AM »

I think these are the exact lines that the opinions will fall around. BTW I love the stomach pump analogy, I will try to remember it for another occasion.

luoma · « **Reply #40 on:** December 11, 2007, 11:54:33 AM »

It seems to me that the only performance upgrade you wouldwant to do is K&N filter and free exhaust. Pretty easy on the pocketbook.

exiledcarper · « **Reply #41 on:** December 11, 2007, 07:47:25 PM »

Have a look on the RE news board, there's a thread about an article on the U.C engine. There's even a picture of an Indian 350cc CARBURATED (wink) version. So maybe you'll be able to tinker with it after all, assuming Uncle Sam doesn't make it a capital offence to buy the appropriate carb?

exiledcarper · « **Reply #42 on:** December 11, 2007, 07:49:43 PM »

Oops, I just realised it's on this very board, DOH!!! Immediately below this thread at the moment

.

David R · « **Reply #43 on:** December 14, 2007, 07:58:23 PM »

::)I, for one and curious and a little excited about the new bike. I love the idea of a more modern working, but classic looking bike in the tradition of our Bullets! I don't know how well it will sell, but so many cruisers now are so exaggerated in their styling, that a basic, functional, rational and beautiful bike, that is hopefully priced affordably has huge appeal to me.

stipa · « **Reply #44 on:** December 17, 2007, 12:20:55 AM »

Sooo, what exactly does a stomach pump look like?

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #45 on:** December 17, 2007, 09:09:49 AM »

My first hand observations about the UCE is that a carb would bolt right on, although I am not sure why you would want to do that except perhaps for looks, not for performance.

hutch · « **Reply #46 on:** December 18, 2007, 08:24:27 AM »

Quote from: Royal Enfield 1 on December 17, 2007, 09:09:49 AM

My first hand observations about the UCE is that a carb would bolt right on, although I am not sure why you would want to do that except perhaps for looks, not for performance.

For those of us that like to fix things ourselves, and adjust carbs where we want them. Compulsive tinkerers that can say we did that tune up, and take the blame for the results, be it good or bad. We work on bikes, and don't just ride them. It is a matter of pride in doing your own tune ups, and the self satisfaction of not just changing oil once in a while. My enjoyment has always been that last turn of the screwdriver with your ear listening for that sweet spot where the motor is at the perfect mix and you hear it. That goes for cars and bikes. Sadly that way is being lost and replaced with people that only assemble, and let the "electronics" do the rest. Hutch

fredgold52 · « **Reply #47 on:** December 18, 2007, 10:15:58 AM »

Quote from: David R on December 14, 2007, 07:58:23 PM

::)I, for one and curious and a little excited about the new bike. I love the idea of a more modern working, but classic looking bike in the tradition of our Bullets! I don't know how well it will sell, but so many cruisers now are so exaggerated in their styling, that a basic, functional, rational and beautiful bike, that is hopefully priced affordably has huge appeal to me.

My sentiments exactly. Up until I stumbled across Royal Enfield, the only bikes that lit my fire at all were the Triumph Bonnies and the Kawasaki W650 Triumph look alike.

Now, with the possibility of a Classically styled RE with more modern running gear even those two bikes don't interest me.

Motorcycle styling has gotten way out of hand. When almost all you can get is a crotch rocket or a deformed cruiser, it's a very sad thing. The RE Electra styling did not hold the appeal for me that the Classic did, but it was way better than any of the other makes.

I have been a motorcycle mechanic for about 35 years, so carbs and points are not a mystery to me. But I must admit to liking the solid state ignition on my scooter. Pretty much set it and forget it. Once set it's always correct. Yes, the mystery box can break, but for me those instances have not existed.

The EFI is not something I am familier with. But if in fact it can correct the mixture for the addition of a free flowing pipe and filter, well I guess I see that as a step forward.

Should we worry about not having anything to fix or adjust on the new machines? I really can't imagine that happening. Even with hte new engine, the Bullet is still largely old technology. There should still be plenty to fiddle with.

Boy, I hope I'm right about that last statement.

hutch · « **Reply #48 on:** December 18, 2007, 01:51:40 PM »

Fred, I know how you feel from the same mechanics view. I never owned a timing light. Did it by "ear" Dwell meters were cool, but still like "feeler gauges." People used bring their bikes and cars to me all the time to adjust the carbs and set points and timing. I don't know how many times they had just got it back from a tune up from a dealer, and tell me it just doesn't run like it did. Being a hot rodder with oversize cams and big carbs, you learn to forget the lights and factory settings. You just close your eyes and let that motor talk to you. It will tell you when to stop turning and it is "happy". I miss that with these new fangled bikes and cars. I have a GMC sonoma that used to get 22mpg. It dropped to 16 and I have had it to 2 dealers. Between the 2, they have replaced sensors, exhaust, and everything in between.They still can't figure it out. 67,000 miles on a 2000, and it gets less gas mileage than my "66 ,289 Mustang motor with racing cam, Holley 4 barrel, and it's bored out 40 thousandths.I'm not the only one. I ran into a guy, when I just back from Kentucky picking up a bike. I got 22mpg. He said he sold his Sonoma because it got 16mpg no matter how he drove it. I told him I loved mine. Guess what my mileage dropped to about 3 months later. You guessed it. 16mpg. I hate sealed up little black boxes that just sit there and stare at you. First thing you want to do is grab a hammer. It has to be replaced anyway, no tearing this apart and fixing it. Mechanics are a dying breed. They have been replaced by techies and remove and replace morons. Hutch

exiledcarper · « **Reply #49 on:** December 18, 2007, 03:13:27 PM »

There is a link on the forum to an Indian forum, on which there's a picture of the U.C.E. motor, hooked up with a carb, NOT E.F.I., so there is hope for the tinkerers, thank goodness.

prof_stack · « **Reply #50 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:39:29 PM »

There is nothing to fear from EFI. It drastically cuts down on emissions, adjusts to different air intakes and pipes (to a point, anyway), is maintenance free, and nowadays doesn't break down. Hey, if HD/Buell can make it work, RE sure can.

portisheadric · « **Reply #51 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:20:37 PM »

http://www.royalenfieldlesite.com/spip/IMG/pdf/UK_Presentation.pdf

Some info on the new EFI

alwscout · « **Reply #52 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:01:13 PM »

Nice link. Pretty informative.

Adam

mbevo1 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 21, 2007, 08:45:22 AM »

Good presentation - dont understand the Gross Wt of 365 Kgs, though...

Mike and Stumpy in Michigan

stipa · « **Reply #54 on:** December 21, 2007, 11:36:52 AM »

http://www.royalenfieldlesite.com/spip/IMG/pdf/UK_Presentation.pdf

Well, that cetainly cleared up a lot of questions I had. But, is the gearbox bathing in engine oil? Looks that way.
And that low fuel level feature is ,,kinda cheating.
I would buy one. It's a little too functional looking and factory as it sits now. I think Kevin said for the U.S. there will be a more traditional looking style coming down the pipe, like Model G styling?
I think acceptance will come gradually, as the UCE is insinuated into the RE "fraternity."

Steve in Puyallup

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #55 on:** December 21, 2007, 12:46:23 PM »

I am not sure as I am not yet a fuel injection expert (going to training in Germany next month), but I think the low fuel issue relates to the FI. The engine and transmission do share oil.

Foggy_Auggie · « **Reply #56 on:** December 21, 2007, 02:09:11 PM »

Quote from: Royal Enfield 1 on December 21, 2007, 12:46:23 PM

I am not sure as I am not yet a fuel injection expert (going to training in Germany next month), but I think the low fuel issue relates to the FI. The engine and transmission do share oil.

The fuel injection would require a fuel pump. And the fuel pump would be lubricated by the fuel itself - run out of fuel and the pump gets toasted. Same as all fuel injected cars - after about the second "run out of gas" incident, the whole pump assembly needs replaced at about $600 to $800 dollars.

Regards, Foggy

luoma · « **Reply #57 on:** December 21, 2007, 03:34:14 PM »

That's scary. How long would it take to ruin it? Would he few seconds it takes to switch over to reserve do any damage? I end up doing that quite a bit.

portisheadric · « **Reply #58 on:** December 21, 2007, 05:37:16 PM »

Thinking about it, the tank on the the last fuel injected bike I owned didn't actually have a separate main and reserve, but instead had a low fuel warning light, perhaps to avoid the very issue of temporarily running without fuel when the level in the tank dropped down to where reserve would normally be.

alwscout · « **Reply #59 on:** December 22, 2007, 09:04:19 AM »

Dang Foggy, what kind of fuel pumps are you running that cost $600 plus?

Even real nice ones from Jegs and such are a few hundred but I never had any go bad seconds after running out of fuel. In fact I only had one go bad and it was just old as dirt, that's all. And I ran them old airboats out of gas more than once unfortunately....

Needless to say the fuel pump doesn't worry me none.

Adam

hutch · « **Reply #60 on:** December 22, 2007, 05:57:46 PM »

Kevin ,I am glad you answered the question about the engine and trans sharing oil. It was asked in an other thread I believe. I thought that would be the case because of the "sight glass". To anyone that doesn't like that idea, don't be scared. True the trans runs in thinner oil, and there will be more metal shavings in your crank case, but if the trans is designed for it, not to worry. The Japaneese have been doing it for years. This is just one good reason to have a "magnetic" drain plug in your bike. I do have one question Kevin. I didn't see a spin on filter, or I missed it, on the UCE. Does it have a internal filter like the Classic or Elecktra??? Hutch

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