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Author Topic: Alternative starter relay  (Read 1083 times)

WillW

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Alternative starter relay
« on: September 01, 2011, 05:58:01 PM »
Does anyone know of an alternative starter relay to the RE one? Same size, same rating etc  -  but a proper one, which works for more than three months without packing up?
Relay number three now kaput. I really can't see any point getting another one from Royal Enfield.
Anyone know a Jap alternative?
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 06:38:41 PM »
You can search the internet.  Many for larger ATVs and watercraft can be adapted.  It's just four connetcions: two high amp from the battery, two low amp from the starter switch.  The advantage with these is that they are deisgned to work in wet and/or dirty environments

Failing that, you can get one from a Ford car or truck.  They make nice relays that are easy to surface mount and have 4 very obvious connections.  Not to pricey and available at any auto store.  If you burn out the Ford relay there's something else wrong with the system.

Generic ATV:
http://www.motorsportsonsale.com/electrical/193-atv-starter-relay.html

Ford:
http://www.publicityx.com/major/cart/cart/electrical.html

You may want to upgrade your battery to starter cable and ground cable with a larger gauge.  This will make sure lots of juice gets there with less load on the entire system.  Most motot cables are kinda marginal.  Easy to make your own set from raw cable and connectors.

Scott

barenekd

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 07:36:18 PM »
Generally, any 12V starter solenoid will work. You just need one that you can fit to the bike. The electrical requirements are essentially identical.
Basically the coil acts as an electromagnet that pulls a plunger down to make a contact between the battery and the starter. The contact needs to carry a large amount of amperage through the switch to the starter, hence the large wires and the plunger/contact is large enough to carry the load. Motorcycle starters aren't that big so don't need a gigantic solenoid (switch).
You can probably get the best deal at an Auto parts store. Take yours down to one and see what they have that is about the same size with adaptable mounting points.

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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 09:21:30 PM »
The one thing that's different is how much power they can reliably and repeatedly pass.  If you get a 50cc scooter model it may not be up to the task of repeatedly starting a 500cc single.  Similarly, if he's burned out a few already I'd say it's time for something bigger. 

That said, yeah, take yours to a good shop and ask what they have.  Bigger is better in your case Will.

Scott

Tri750

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 01:26:01 AM »
There is a universal type intended for a yamaha that we have in stock.
We've installed one with no issues.
If you'll call fri-sat I can quote u a price.
1-866-811-4269
Al
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olhogrider

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2011, 02:26:08 AM »
That's nice of you, Al but Willw is Jolly Olde England with a less than par dealer. Maybe you could post the part # for him.

Tri750

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 04:07:33 AM »
unless the old brain fades, I'll do that fri.
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WillW

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 07:24:31 AM »
Many thanks for all the info folks. Vehicle electrics are a mystery to me. I was hoping there'd be an off the shelf one with the same wiring setup, but I guess I can study the wiring diagram - although it might as well be Hieroglyphics!
I'd been struggling on with the previous relay as I've not been using the bike much - sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I kept blaming the battery, but I've had it on trickle charge for a while so it's all charged up. I was mostly using the kickstart, but the other evening, when I was really in the mood for a ride on the Enfield, it just would not start! By the time I'd kicked and cursed enough it was getting dark and the mood had passed. So yesterday I unwrapped the new relay.
It began playing up as soon as it was fitted. It did the old trick of first nothing, then continuously spinning the motor even with the ignition switched off, until whacked with a large screwdriver handle. It's worked ok a few times since, but a bit hesitant.
Not to be trusted anyway.
There was a rumour that RE were now fitting decent Jap made relays - but this latest one certainly looks like all the others I've had. I might phone Watsonian and ask whether they've got anything better.
Starting to think this bike's been cursed by the gypsies...... :-\
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 09:41:32 AM by WillW »
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Maturin

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 08:57:39 AM »
Starting to think this bike's been cursed by the gypsies...... :-\

"This is not my vessel. My vessel is magnificent, and fierce and huge-ish and gone. Why is it gone?"
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WillW

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 12:48:30 PM »
 :D indeed...

I called WS and asked whether the rumours of a more robust relay are true. They are sending me another one - a new more robust one!  I just have to put the old connectors on it as they're using a different type now.
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

ROVERMAN

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2011, 04:05:52 PM »
The ghost of old Joe Lucas will haunt us forever!

1 Thump

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2011, 04:23:42 PM »
:D indeed...

I called WS and asked whether the rumours of a more robust relay are true. They are sending me another one - a new more robust one!  I just have to put the old connectors on it as they're using a different type now.


What did your new RE mechanic say about the clatter ?

WillW

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2011, 05:26:48 PM »
No one who's listened to / ridden the bike has come to a positive conclusion. All agree it's rackety, and most say it sounds like tappets. All are alarmed to hear it started suddenly, and was closely followed by the big bits of metal coming out with the oil. None seem keen to take it on.
Meanwhile, see the "...this much oil...." thread.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 05:56:15 PM by WillW »
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2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Arizoni

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2011, 10:32:15 PM »
Will:  Perhaps this has been mentioned before but, have you used an automotive stethoscope to listen to exact places on the engine?

They are inexpensive and look like the photo in this link
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=41c&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=%22automotive+stethoscope%22&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1680&bih=860&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5405248647066269929&sa=X&ei=_1VhTvy-BcqGsgLzk6TqDw&ved=0CDkQ8wIwAA

By placing the tip on various spots on the outside of the engine when it is running you can hear the sounds in that area much louder than sounds coming from more distant locations.

This can narrow down the source of the noise which will help in figuring out what the problem is.

Not only can it be used to hear tapping, knocking or ticking sounds but if held to the engine case where the crankshaft bearings are located you should hear a "shhhhhhhhhhhing" sound of the balls speeding around the races.  If a ball or roller bearing is going bad you will hear a much courser "Grrrrrgrrrrrrr" grating sound.

I've used one of these to check the condition of the alternator bearings, water pump bearings, tapping valve lifter etc in my Miata.

Anyway, these stethoscopes are handy things to have.

If your on a tight budget a short piece of a garden hose can also be used to listen with but it isn't nearly as precise.

(Brain fade I guess.  This post was supposed to go with the engine sound topic but at least I posted it to the right guy.  ;D)
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

WillW

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Re: Alternative starter relay
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2011, 07:50:40 AM »
Thanks Ari. I tried several times to locate the sound by listening through a screwdriver handle, and also a bit of narrow rubber tube, but I just couldn't pin it down with any accuracy. I didn't realise a proper stethoscope could be got so cheaply - plenty on UK ebay, so I'll buy one and give it a try. Useful addition to the toolkit whatever the outcome.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 07:56:15 AM by WillW »
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~