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Author Topic: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5  (Read 883 times)

singhg5

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No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« on: September 20, 2011, 12:36:12 AM »
My G5 has been hit by two electrical failures one after the other.  

On my way back home, its Front LEFT turn signal light stopped working (rear left was fine).  When I got home and had parked the bike, I found that RIGHT turn signals (both front and rear) were working fine.

So I thought that front LEFT signal bulb is dead.  Took it out, it looked fine but I had a spare one and used that. No blinking.  Then I tested the left socket with electric tester - there was no current in the socket.  To make sure that my tester is OK, I checked RIGHT turn signal socket, the tester was blinking as it should.

Then I thought of opening the left handlebar turn signal switch housing. To open the switch housing, I had turned the handle all the way right. Trying to separate the two halves of housing and just looking inside. I thought of touching tester probe in switch. I put the ignition key in the ignition switch, turn it to right - Grrh, WHAT the heck was happening - the fuel pump indicator bulb does not light up.  However neutral indicator bulb was on.

Now G5 has got 2 problems - while trying to solve one, another one pops up.  Up until then, the fuel pump ignition circuit was working fine.  

At this point I checked all fuses - they were fine. Then I tested right turn signal - that was fine, then tested left turn signal - the front socket still had no current.  

I turned OFF and ON the emergency kill switch several times - still no fuel pump ignition circuit working.  Now it does not kick start either.

I suspect something happened in the jumble of wires in headlight nacelle that is causing the problem with fuel pump circuit.  

By this point I had to stop poking the left handlebar switch because it became dark outside where the bike is parked.

REs electric wiring is so unreliable and finicky that turning the handle in certain way can stop the bike in its tracks  >:(.  

In brief - fuel pump / ignition circuit is kaput and Front Left turn signal has no power (Two separate problems that came on one after the other - not linked). The bike is not starting.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 02:40:59 AM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

GlennF

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 01:42:10 AM »
Without a wiring diagram its difficult to say much.

However if the rear lamp is flashing that suggests the handle bar switch is OK.

What you should be looking for is a junction somewhere that splits the single "left" wire from the switch into two separate wires (one going to the front lamp and one going to the back lamp). This junction is likely in the nacelle.

Check the color of the wires to the left rear and left front lamps. Then look for a junction where two wires of those exact color join into one wire which leads up to the handlebar switch. That is likely the problem area.

The EFI/fuel issue is obviously a wire pulled loose, you just need to track it down.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 01:46:40 AM by GlennF »

Arizoni

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 05:07:45 AM »
Singhg5
As you were messing around with the left switch module perhaps you unknowingly disconnected the clutch switch?

My wiring diagram indicates the starter solenoid uses that switch to ground out the energizer coil.

Strangely, the main wiring diagram does not seem to show the fuel pump but a small wiring diagram I found somewhere on the forum does.
I saved it as "ignition circuit" but I don't know if that was the original name.

Anyway, it shows positive power going from the battery + directly to the ignition switch without a fuse.  From the ignition switch, it goes thru the kill switch and then to the "Power Relay" (one of the relays under the left hand side cover).  The power seems to go from the Power Relay to the "side stand relay" and then to ground.  I do not know if this "side stand relay" is part of the side stand safety switch but it seems to be more than a simple switch.  I think I can see the symbol for a diode and a resistor in it.  This side stand relay acts to provide the ground for the Power Relay.
Another circuit bypasses the Power Relay and goes directly to the "side stand relay".
I don' t know what it does but it possibly would serve to bypass the Power Relay if the sidestand switch says the side stand is down?  Your sidestand isn't down is it?

Another power wire connects to the Power Relay after going thru a 20A fuse.
If this Power Relay is energized from the ignition switch, the  fused power is delivered to the "warning indicator bulb, the computer (terminal 1), the ignition coil, the fuel injector, the fuel pump, the O2 sensor and the "K-line" (whatever that is?).

Hopefully you can find this wiring diagram.

As for the turn signal failing, you may remember that the left rear turn signal on my G5 quit working?  The bulb was good but the socket did not have any continuity to ground.  The reason for this is that the outside ground path of the socket is actually grounded by a wire that was shoved in between the plastic that holds the bulb socket and the plastic housing.
The plastic in this area broke allowing the ground wire to dangle freely so it was no longer in contact with the socket.

I fixed this (temporary) by moving the wire to a location where some plastic was still sound and the socket body would make contact with it.  So far it's still working.

Good luck with your problems.
Jim
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 05:13:46 AM by Arizoni »
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Ducati Scotty

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 05:27:13 AM »
Singh, you're probably right and it's just a connection come loose behind the headlight.  I had the same myself recently.  Remove the entire headlight, take out the two lower screws and loosen the upper screw.  Both of the chrome rings should come out now with the light.  Disconnect quick disconnect for the headlight and set it aside.

With the light out you should easily be able to see the whole jumble of wires from the front and find the problem.

Scott

GlennF

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 12:18:19 PM »

As for the turn signal failing, you may remember that the left rear turn signal on my G5 quit working?  The bulb was good but the socket did not have any continuity to ground.  The reason for this is that the outside ground path of the socket is actually grounded by a wire that was shoved in between the plastic that holds the bulb socket and the plastic housing.
The plastic in this area broke allowing the ground wire to dangle freely so it was no longer in contact with the socket.

I fixed this (temporary) by moving the wire to a location where some plastic was still sound and the socket body would make contact with it.  So far it's still working.

Good luck with your problems.
Jim

I totally forgot about ground faults. That is the generally the most likely cause of a front indicator failing.

Singh ...

Recheck the power going to the front socket with your voltmeter however this time check between the power wire going to the lamp and a solid clean metal part of the frame or engine.

If you get suddenly power when checking between wire and bike frame/engine its the lamp not grounding properly.




singhg5

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 02:32:36 AM »
However if the rear lamp is flashing that suggests the handle bar switch is OK.

This junction is likely in the nacelle. Check the color of the wires to the left rear and left front lamps. Then look for a junction where two wires of those exact color join into one wire which leads up to the handlebar switch. That is likely the problem area.

Singhg5
As you were messing around with the left switch module perhaps you unknowingly disconnected the clutch switch?

My wiring diagram indicates the starter solenoid uses that switch to ground out the energizer coil.

@Glenn & @Arizoni:  

BIG THANKS TO YOU BOTH.
 

Your logical analysis of the problem saved me going off the track onto a wild goose chase.  Both of you were right on.

Today in the evening, I was able to get back to bike. With my totally unrealistic expectation, I turned on the ignition key with the hope that perhaps RE has fixed itself overnight  :D.  But that was not the case.  With the key in ON position, I pulled in the clutch lever at the handlebar -  VIOLA, the pump started whirring. The clutch switch must be stuck that prevented it from starting. Then I wiggled it a bit.  The pump light came on and then went out as it should, and bike started quickly with the push of a button  ;D ! One problem solved.

The next one took longer as I first spent some time on the Front Left Turn Signal socket checking for loose ground wire but did not see any. It all seemed OK but there was no power, no tester blink. Then I opened the headlight and there I saw a loose 'bullet' shaped, copper male connector all by itself.  Where is the female part. Looked around - and guess what, There were 2 female connectors lying around. For about a minute I thought that this is even more serious problem, there must be another male connector that I have to find. But there was none. I just connected this only male connector to one of the female connectors - and the power came back to Turn Signal. I put in the bulb and it was blinking all right.

Then I thought what to do with this female connector - Are all buttons / switches working ? Checked all of them one by one, parking, headlight, left or right turn, hi beam, horn, brake lights.  Then I remembered that this is what Arizoni was talking about  ;D.  Good thing he had reminded me about it.  Then I tested that and the verdict is - It is Extra Live Wire that has current when Parking switch is ON, AND when Headlight switch is ON.  This is absolutely excellent choice to draw power for additional lights or anything else one wants to add to the bike - right from under the handlebar, in the nacelle. No need to splice anything.  RE must be thinking ahead  :D !

Since I have extra LED lights in the front, I can use it instead of my current arrangement where I draw power from the headlight connectors. I just need 'bullet' type male connector of right size.  

With this exercise, not only was the problem solved but it also helped to find that the extra wire in nacelle can be very useful.

Just one question - What will be a good place in nacelle where black (groud) wires of extra light can be attached securely ? I do not want to use the nuts / screws on headlight rims because everytime headlight is taken off, the ground wire will come off too.  I want some place that is out of the way, where it is not easily disturbed.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 03:11:08 AM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

singhg5

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 02:34:54 AM »
Another thing - I think I had over tightened the screws of the turn signal lens - it has cracked and a small part of it is missing. I don't think CMW sells lens by itself, they will perhpas sell whole turn signal which will be expensive.  Any place I can just get the lens ?

Here is picture of cracked lens and for additional info the wiring of turn signal too.

1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

Arizoni

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 04:56:08 AM »
@Glenn & @Arizoni: 


Just one question - What will be a good place in nacelle where black (groud) wires of extra light can be attached securely ? I do not want to use the nuts / screws on headlight rims because everytime headlight is taken off, the ground wire will come off too.  I want some place that is out of the way, where it is not easily disturbed.

That is what I was hoping you could tell me.

When my dealer closed up shop he was selling some things he had on hand for very reasonable prices so I bought the voltage indicator that is also sold by NField Gear.
I've put off installing it because I want a nice dedicated ground connection in the headlight nacelle like the one your searching for.
I plan on using that gray wire for the positive power supply.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Ducati Scotty

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 05:10:41 AM »
Another thing - I think I had over tightened the screws of the turn signal lens - it has cracked and a small part of it is missing. I don't think CMW sells lens by itself, they will perhpas sell whole turn signal which will be expensive.  Any place I can just get the lens ?

Here is picture of cracked lens and for additional info the wiring of turn signal too.



I'm pretty sure these turn signals are also used on a Japanese cruiser, Suzuki or Yamaha I think.  There's a marketing picture at work and I can see the signal clearly but not which bike.  Pop down to the local multi brand dealer and look around.  Once you find the bike, order a lens :)

And don't ground inside the nacelle.  It's only connection to the main bike frame is through the bearings, don't run electricity though the bearings.  Just under the tank buried in the head stock gusset is the ignition coil.  You can use one of those mounting bolts as a ground.  You may need to take the tank off to get to it, it's  a piece of cake to do.  Remove seat (not needed on the C5), disconnect low fuel and fuel pump wires, disconnect fuel line (doesn't leak), remove the two mounting bolts, cloth over the front to protect it from the nacelle, lift it off.

Scott
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:17:01 AM by Ducati Scotty »

Desi Bike

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 11:30:30 AM »
That extra live female in there is used for the Minda 7inch headlight, and powers the parking light that is in the bulb. When the headlight switch is operating as it should (jumper removed) the headlight can be off and have a low low beam shining in the main headlight
میں نہیں چاہتا کہ ایک اچار
میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

singhg5

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Re: No Starting & no Left Turn Signal Electric Failures on G5
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 09:29:48 PM »
And don't ground inside the nacelle.  It's only connection to the main bike frame is through the bearings, don't run electricity though the bearings.

Just under the tank buried in the head stock gusset is the ignition coil.  You can use one of those mounting bolts as a ground.  You may need to take the tank off to get to it, it's  a piece of cake to do.  Remove seat (not needed on the C5), disconnect low fuel and fuel pump wires, disconnect fuel line (doesn't leak), remove the two mounting bolts, cloth over the front to protect it from the nacelle, lift it off.

I like your idea of using the frame mounting bolt for ground instead of nacelle.
 
Thanks Scott.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 09:31:59 PM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5