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Author Topic: Remove catch-can form an Electra  (Read 4251 times)

Bill Harris

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Remove catch-can form an Electra
« on: November 08, 2011, 12:00:37 PM »
Parts needed:
3/4"X1/2" clear vinyl tubing
1/2"X5/16" reducer.  I used a automotive PCV valve with a 1/2" inlet and a 5/16" outlet  and drilled out the check valve, I could not find a reducer the right size.
Duckbill form catch-can.
Plastic ties.

Attach Duckbill to reducer with a plastic tie.

Attach Duckbill and reducer to 3/4"X1/2" tubing with a plastic tie.

Route the tubing from the back of the frame to the crankcase breather on the oil tank and secure with ties as pictured in the first photo.

Route the timingcase breather tubing and secure with ties as pictured in the second photo.

      
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 06:27:53 PM by Bill Harris »

REpozer

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 04:21:16 PM »
Great pics, Bill.

I haven't seen any "mayo" in my oil since doing this mod.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 09:33:31 PM »
Nice... I'm always up for taking bits off the bike.  I'd like to try this.

Thanks Bill.  Back to the green tank, I see.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 08:17:23 AM »
Parts needed:
3/4"X1/2" clear vinyl tubing
Fram FV 401 PCV valve or equivalent or a reducing elbow  1/2" to 3/8"
Flapper valve from the catch-can
Plastic ties

Route the timingcase breather tubing and secure with ties as pictured in the second photo.    

Hey Bill,
           What do you have on the open end of the timing case breather tube? Is one of those little round filter types OK? I have one of them on the crankcase breather of my "other bike", works fine.

            Although I've never had oil dump out of my intake box as others have, I still want to deal with this mess of tubing & black cans you can't get at on my '08 AVL over the Winter & "simple it up". I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.. I hope to "simple up" the intake at the same time. Then I can carry a sammich in the air filter case.
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Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 02:20:40 PM »
tooseevee,

On the timingcase breather tubing, I just left it open.  If you are concerned, you could put a duckbill flapper valve on the open end.  Nfieldgear has them for $5.95, part number 140167.  It will be in the performance section.  If you route the breather tubing from the timingcase high and out of the weather, not low like I did, a little round filter would work just fine.  If you route the breather tubing down low like I did, I would not use a filter.  It will just get wet and clog-up if you ride in the rain or mud or wet streets or ford streams and such, I love the mud.  ;D      

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Cheers,
Bill
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:15:22 PM by Bill Harris »

tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 07:35:58 PM »
tooseevee,

On the timingcase breather tubing, I just left it open.  If you are concerned, you could put a duckbill flapper valve on the open end.  Nfieldgear has them for $5.95, part number 140167.  It will be in the performance section.  If you route the breather tubing from the timingcase high and out of the weather, not low like I did, a little round filter would work just fine.  If you route the breather tubing down low like I did, I would not use a filter.  It will just get wet and clog-up if you ride in the rain or mud or wet streets or ford streams and such, I love the mud.  ;D      

Cheers,
Bill

            Perfect. Thanks, Bill. I love answers that actually just answer the question ;>)

             My next question will follow rapidly on the heels of this one.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 08:57:49 PM »
I put a rubber plug on the tumer vent, and another plug on the primary vent.
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Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 07:26:00 PM »
Rode the bike today in the rain and mud for about 2hrs.  So far I think I like it.

Work in progress.

Cheers,
Bill    
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 01:40:47 PM by Bill Harris »

Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 11:05:36 PM »
Removed Duckbill and reducer from the 3/4"X1/2" clear vinyl crankcase breather tubing and running the breather open.  It works just fine.  No noticeable loss of power and with less stuff to restrict breathing or go wrong.  Been running it this way for about two weeks now, in the rain and mud of course.  Oil looks good.  I'm very happy with it.  If I don't need it, why have it.  I'll keep you up to date with modifications as I do them.

Cheers,
Bill        
  
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 02:18:10 PM by Bill Harris »

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2011, 04:10:38 AM »
I never understood what the vents on the timing case and primary were for. I initially connected mine together with tube running across the top of the crank case.
When I changed to ATF in the primary I blocked the tube in the middle as a temporary measure. 8000 miles later and the tube is still there, bone dry inside, it doesn't look like any fluid has ever been in there.

Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2011, 12:09:39 PM »
Breathing is good!  Less pressure, less leaks.  Less pressure, more power.  One place I like pressure is in the combustion chamber, more power.  Let the engine breath.  ;)

Royal Enfield people are good people.

Cheers,
Bill  
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 07:03:41 PM by Bill Harris »

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2011, 12:20:48 PM »
I ran the G5 timing breather hose up over the rear frame, under the seat edge, and exit it at the rear of the seat just like an old Triumph. No duckbill, no filter, works fine. Also no blowby on the fender.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 12:03:32 PM »
I believe the duckbill is there to restrict the air from entering your crankcase, but allowing pressure to vent. The only 4 stroke bikes I have ever owned that did not have some form of checkvalve were big twin Harley's. They had a rotary valve built into the oil pump drive. A whole lot of trouble, kinda think it may serve a pourpose.

Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 10:16:07 PM »
I believe the duckbill is there to restrict the air from entering your crankcase, but allowing pressure to vent. The only 4 stroke bikes I have ever owned that did not have some form of checkvalve were big twin Harley's. They had a rotary valve built into the oil pump drive. A whole lot of trouble, kinda think it may serve a pourpose.

If I remember correctly, the old 250 Ducati Singles and the Royal Enfield 250 Crusaker ran a open crankcase breather off there oil tank.  

The breather duckbill isn't as critical on the AVL as it is on the old Iron Bullet.
Here's why.
With an unchecked breather hose, the air is pumped out of the hose when the piston descends, and pumps air back in the hose when the piston ascends.
This creates pumping losses which can slightly affect horsepower and heat generation.
Additionally, the Iron Bullet uses the low pressure zone in the crankcase to draw fumes down from the head, to assist the breather route.
A low pressure zone in the crankcase reduces pumping losses, helps rings seal better, and has less internal pressure to cause oil leaking out any gaskets or seals.
In the AVL or Iron Bullets with the oil tank breather, it is not as critical because that crankcase never really gets pumped-down to low pressure, so there never is a real low pressure zone in those bikes.
If it were an Iron Barrel model with the crankcase breather on the engine case, then I'd use the duckbilll because there would be an improvement.
With the AVL and later model Bullets with the oil tank breather, I don't think it will make much difference, so I removed it.

Cheers,
Bill
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:26:06 PM by Bill Harris »

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 02:05:32 PM »
Agreed on the pumping losses. I believe another reason would be to restrict the amount of  oxygen contaminatng  the hot oil. One of the reasons Positive Crankcase Vents are still very popular in car engine design. Don't know about the AVL vent system, but if it huffs and puffs I'd put a duckbill on it.

Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2012, 03:53:25 PM »
With the duckbill off I noticed a little oil from the oil tank works it's way up and out the breather hose until the oil level in the tank is down to about one and a quarter quarts, just showing on the dipstick with it not screwed in.  With the duckbill installed I can run about a quart and a half of oil in the oil tank without loss.  To me, this indicates some low pressure is achieved when the piston ascends with the duckbill on.  This low pressure on the piston ascent, meaning less pressure when the piston descends and a less likelihood of this lessened pressure pushing oil up and out the breather hose.  With this revelation, my statement about the AVL or Iron Bullets with the oil tank breather not pumping-down to low pressure, would seem to be not entirely true.  My apologies.  The duckbill is back!  ;)

Work in progress.

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Cheers,
Bill        
                
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 06:46:04 PM by Bill Harris »

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2012, 08:22:20 PM »
Bill I was wondering where you routed your hose from your timing case. If it just goes down the back of the gearbox I would suggest you replace the hose with a vacuum cap. Reason being is the redesigned breather that exits the oil tank is somewhat limited in my opinion when compared to the original design, I would think that plugging the nipple off the timing chest would then direct all the pumping pressure that is squeeze through the small hole between the crankcase and oil tank exiting up through the breather hose and regulated by the duckbill. Not plugging the nipple would give the pressure an exit with the least resistance not letting your breather system operate efficiently/correctly.  Just a thought!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 08:29:19 PM by Blltrdr »
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Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 06:27:38 PM »
I'm back to the catch-can.  Don't like the oil dripping out of the  breather hose and on to the ground.  I think I'm through with this modification attempt for now. 

Cheers,
Bill 

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 09:35:23 AM »
I'm back to the catch-can.  Don't like the oil dripping out of the  breather hose and on to the ground.  I think I'm through with this modification attempt for now. 

Cheers,
Bill 

             Me, too, Bill. I will NOT have a puddle under a bike. Lonnnnng ago I got sick of that being somebody's first comment.

            I've followed this thread (& others) faithfully & gone through a lot of machinations over the past couple months. Cold weather has stretched the time out. Not super cold, but chilly enough to limit long rides (I'm like an old turtle in the cold).

             I tried ALL the ways to deal with the crankcase breather:

             First I ran the hose up high & then down by the centerstand with a duckbill. Result? Fine oil mist all over everything including the rear tire plus I can't stand the tiny puddle under the bike when I shut it down. I have an oil-tight '77 harley shovelhead & I am CERtainly NOT having an ''08 Enfield with 300 miles on it with a puddle of yellow oil foam that looks like a dog throwing up grass under it.

              Second I ran clear Tygon tubing all the way along the fender braces with TyWraps & out at the rear tip of the rear fender. Result? Looks way too Rube Goldberg for me & will attract irritating comments from riders who don't even CHANGE their own oil.

              Third I ReRan the OEM hose back down to rear of the tranny with a small plastic Listerine bottle catch can & duckbill on end of hose. Made tiny air holes in the top edge of the catch can. Result? Did not like the look of it & again it would just attract stupid comments.

                About 2 AM one night (these kinds of things drive me nuts 'til I solve them) I suddenly had an "Of course, Dummy" moment. Your right side air cleaner box is EMPTY since you put the K&N on, Dummy. I went down later & first plugged off the timing case fitting. I don't think that hose is necessary (Please tell me if I'm wrong. Nobody did on my previously posted question).

                  Then I ran the CC breather hose up & over the carburetor & down & into the hole in the air cleaner box & put the duckbill on the end. It has a nice high loop & it ends up pointing down inside the box (perfect) because of the threaded bracket on the air filter hole. I then duct taped all the openings shut & rolled up a nice big piece of old thermal underwear to lay in the bottom of the box to keep oil (if there IS that much) from running out through the hinge.

                   I ran the bike for about 5 minutes in the driveway & got NO oil at all on the rag, but that proves nothing. I shut the box & went upstairs.

                    Today looks like it's going to be warm enough to maybe ride 6 or 7 miles before this old turtle freezes up.

                     Will report later.

                     PS: Since I talked here last about dialing in my carb (BS-29 CV) months ago & running out of throttle, I've raised the needle one more shim & it's running like a stripe-ed ass ape now (well, everything is relative ;>)  Of course, I won't REALLY know until the weather warms up & I get more miles on. I'm still only at 330. I hope that's at least 400 by April 1st. It starts 2nd or 3rd kick all the time on these 30s & 40s degree days. One kick when hot.                 
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bob bezin

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 10:19:41 AM »
those vaccuum caps only last a few months.before they split.so if you use them check them every so often.i guess the oil ruins them
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 09:55:36 PM »
Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but I'm having some breather woes. 

Tooseevee, when you did your listerine bottle catch can fix, did it fill up with much oil? 

Yesterday I did the duckbill to the chain mod, but that covered my back wheel and entire bike with oil.  Then today I extended it with a plastic hose to the rear license plate area (still using duckbill) but it still covered me with oil.  I'm down to the bottom of the dipstick now, so I'm thinking it shouldn't have much left to throw, but it seems to keep coming.

I'd love to go without a can, but it's pretty messy.  If I can make a small catch can and hide it behind the tranny, that'd be ideal.  Just wondering what your thoughts were.  I know you said you didn't like the appearance, but what if I make it pretty?

Oh yeah, I ride pretty hard too... some post said that promotes oil throwing... looking for a fix that looks good, is the simplest option, and lets me ride like I want to ride.

Thanks,
Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 11:16:08 PM »
I placed a Krankvent in the line about the height of the carb and petcock, then ran the line over the frame under the seat, back down and to the rear.  I removed the can entirely and plugged the other vent on the case where the return line from the can had gone with a rubber cap.  No more blowing oil.  Less vibration too.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 12:36:04 AM »
Which of the Krankvents did you use?  It sounds like you are using an inline vent device.  Is there a purpose in running the vent up high and back down?  Do you mean the rear of the motor or at the end of the rear fender?  And you capped the primary case vent?  What about the timing case?  I have read this entire thread and I'm still concerned about what to do with the minor lines.
I placed a Krankvent in the line about the height of the carb and petcock, then ran the line over the frame under the seat, back down and to the rear.  I removed the can entirely and plugged the other vent on the case where the return line from the can had gone with a rubber cap.  No more blowing oil.  Less vibration too.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2013, 01:02:06 AM »
I used the Universal 3/8" Barb Kit.  I ran the hose straight up from the oil tank nipple (large hose going to oil can) and hung it from the frame with a wide Tie Strap.  The Krankvent is just below the tank, pointing straight up.  The hose curves and runs back along the frame to where the old oil can was, then down behind the left tool box and back along the frame to the rear of the fender.  No oil has ever come out.  I feel a little puff puff at idle there.  I can't hear the Krankvent ticking or tapping at all.
The timing case nipple (smaller of the two hoses going to the can) is capped off with a vacuum cap and small clamp right at the timing case.  Oil can is sitting on a shelf in the garage.
The vent line must run straight up from the oil tank nipple to keep oil from running out the line.  If it doesn't go as straight and high as possible under the frame there is no point in bothering to do this at all.
I'm out of town or I'd post a pic for you.   I will upload a pic tomorrow night.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 01:48:38 AM »
Thanks.  Good information.  Where do I obtain a vacuum cap?
I used the Universal 3/8" Barb Kit.  I ran the hose straight up from the oil tank nipple (large hose going to oil can) and hung it from the frame with a wide Tie Strap.  The Krankvent is just below the tank, pointing straight up.  The hose curves and runs back along the frame to where the old oil can was, then down behind the left tool box and back along the frame to the rear of the fender.  No oil has ever come out.  I feel a little puff puff at idle there.  I can't hear the Krankvent ticking or tapping at all.
The timing case nipple (smaller of the two hoses going to the can) is capped off with a vacuum cap and small clamp right at the timing case.  Oil can is sitting on a shelf in the garage.
The vent line must run straight up from the oil tank nipple to keep oil from running out the line.  If it doesn't go as straight and high as possible under the frame there is no point in bothering to do this at all.
I'm out of town or I'd post a pic for you.   I will upload a pic tomorrow night.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 07:58:10 AM »
It's just a rubber cap you can get at any autoparts or hardware store.  You can even cut the old hose down to just a couple inches long, place it on the timing case vent nipple and stick a large enough bolt in the hose to plug it tight.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2013, 09:31:03 AM »
Which of the Krankvents did you use?  It sounds like you are using an inline vent device.  Is there a purpose in running the vent up high and back down?  Do you mean the rear of the motor or at the end of the rear fender?  And you capped the primary case vent?  What about the timing case?  I have read this entire thread and I'm still concerned about what to do with the minor lines.

Yes, there is a purpose to run the vent line up high, and then back down.
It acts as a "stand pipe" which allows some burping of liquid oil up the vertical part of the breather hose, and then it will just run back down into the oil tank without being expelled out the back end of the hose.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2013, 01:19:49 PM »
Sounds like a great system- googled it and those krank vents go for 90-120 dollars each.  Stopped by Pep Boys on my lunch break to see if they had anything similar and no luck.  Is there a need to use the Krank Vent one specifically, for performance reasons, or is there an alternative that's more budget conscious?

I'm also planning on removing the rear fender, or significantly shortening it, so the long duckbill release tube may not be an option.

Another idea:  What if I replace the crank case tube with clear plastic tubing (or a more pliable black tubing), then coil that tubing the whole way up around the center frame support (just beside the carb).  My intention is to give it as much distance to travel as possible, and still giving it the opportunity to drain back to the crank case before I go to a duckbill and/or smaller, hidden away catch can.

Would the tightly coiled tubing allow the same burping action as ACE's 'stand pipe' or would it not drain quickly enough?  Ideas?

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2013, 02:46:52 PM »
I just make sure my engine is at TDC after each ride and I haven't had an issue with the stock breather set-up or wet sumping since I first bought the bike and blew all the hoses clear with my compressor. I see no need for any modifications to the system, at least on the stock bike.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2013, 03:12:52 PM »
There are other brands.  Krankvent just seems to be the best quality/longevity.  I used to know a few oldtimers who just used automotive PCV valves, but they aren't made to handle the faster open/close rate of a single cylinder bike and wear out fast.  I even looked at one way valves from Grainger but thought clustering up one from parts looked too long and out of place.  People have made all sorts of weird catch-can addons, but that's just making the symptoms easier to live with, not curing the disease.
Hose straight up unless you want to look Steam-Punk!  You're not riding a still.
Tom (Ace Café) may have more to say as he knows much more than I do.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2013, 06:04:19 PM »
All good advice.  I love it!
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2013, 07:18:42 PM »
Cool.  Yeah I may try it tomorrow then.  I'm planning to ride thursday so we'll test it out then.  If I can't stop the oil spray then I'll probably be back to the stock catch can (or slight modification of said system).

REpozer

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2013, 07:48:06 PM »
I got rid of the catch can after ruining the paper air filter with oil up-chuck.
Installed the duck bill from the old can at the end of my new crank case hose.
I keep the oil level to half mark on the stick, and have very little oil drips from the hose ,.if any.
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D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2013, 10:09:04 PM »
I just make sure my engine is at TDC after each ride and I haven't had an issue with the stock breather set-up or wet sumping since I first bought the bike and blew all the hoses clear with my compressor. I see no need for any modifications to the system, at least on the stock bike.
His problem isn't wet sumping.
Oh yeah, like REpozer said, don't try to keep it higher than half full on the dipstick.  It just spits the oil out.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:20:21 PM by D the D »
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D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2013, 11:16:47 PM »
Pictures:

First:  The hose rising up from the oil tank vent nipple to the frame with the Krankvent in the line.  You can follow the hose as it bends above the Krankvent and runs back under the frame.
Second:  The Timing cover vent nipple with a vacuum cap and hose clamp.

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D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2013, 11:22:56 PM »
If you like cleaning this glop out on a regular basis, keep the oil can:
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Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »
REpozer, how long is your CC hose and where do you run it to?

I just got back inside from messing with it again... I'm now running the CC breather hose straight up to the carb, then back down right behind the crank case (by the rear wheel).  Oh yeah, I'm using the long hose from the PAV system in place of the stock breather tube (this one's longer).  I then reattached the tube to the stock catch can, replaced duckbill back inside, plugged the other 2 holes on the bottom, used some electrical tape to try and create a seal for the lid, and ran a hose out to the back of the bike (from the catch can blowoff hole with the elbow in it). 

The catch can is laying on its side now, hiding in that little nether region behind the crank case.  I also put a few shreds of rags in the can with the hope that it'll help prevent leaks once some oil gets in there.  Took it for a quick spin and I can feel puffs of engine breath coming out of the blowoff tube, so all seems fine for now.  I'll just have to pay attention to it in case the can gets saturated because A) it will probably leak, and all leaks will go directly on my rear tire tread.  and B) if the rags get saturated, and get shaken over the blowoff hole, i'll then be suffocating my engine (same as plugging it at the crank case itself).

Fingers crossed!

still looking for a simpler, more maintenance free cure...  (I don't want to continually have to empty this wretched thing)
chuck

REpozer

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2013, 12:55:51 AM »
Hey SuperChuck
I used fuel hose (doesn't matter) and made a run straight up from the CC breather hole. Then went over the frame and under the seat. Down to the middle of the lower drive chain. Clamped on the old duck bill at the end( use the duck bill from inside the catch can).
I did try the duck bill at the rear tail light/ license plate, but was too oily on the rear fender, so moved the end as close to the drive chain I could.
I completely removed the oil catch can (less junk under the seat.)
Ace has some old threads on this that were very helpful.

The PAV removal was good too. Less likely for a vacuum leak now.
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tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2013, 07:29:30 AM »

The catch can is laying on its side now, hiding in that little nether region behind the crank case.  I also put a few shreds of rags in the can with the hope that it'll help prevent leaks once some oil gets in there.  Took it for a quick spin and I can feel puffs of engine breath coming out of the blowoff tube, so all seems fine for now.  I'll just have to pay attention to it in case the can gets saturated because A) it will probably leak, and all leaks will go directly on my rear tire tread.  and B) if the rags get saturated, and get shaken over the blowoff hole, i'll then be suffocating my engine (same as plugging it at the crank case itself).

Fingers crossed!

still looking for a simpler, more maintenance free cure...  (I don't want to continually have to empty this wretched thing)
chuck

            What did you end up doing? What were you your outcomes?

             Is your right side case, where the stock air filter was, now empty?

             I ran my CC vent hose up & over & into the inside hole of that empty case over a year ago with a duck bill on the end. No more cans & hoses running all over the place & zero oil comes out of the duck bill, never a drip on my muffler. Zero problems since I did it. Timing case vent is plugged; it's unnecessary.
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Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2013, 10:38:01 AM »
Thanks guys, if this vertical standpipe seems to solve my oil issues I'll try the chain method again.  I like the looks of it, but I don't want oil on my tires.

tooseevee, I removed my side panels altogether for a 'naked bike' look.  My K&N air filter is a massive thing, a cylinder bigger than a beer can, so wouldn't fit with the right side panel toolbox anyway.  My 'rags' in the catch can are based on your 'old sock/underpants' idea to monitor and absorb oil blowoff. 

If all goes well on my test ride tonight I'll be commuting to work on it tomorrow.  That's over 100 miles round trip (!) with a portion of highway.  All-in-all it's a lot of high-rev riding so we'll put the new catch can location/setup to the test.  Bringing extra tubing in my backpack though in case I need to modify it mid-ride (kinda expecting to).

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2013, 03:44:19 PM »
tooseevee, I removed my side panels altogether for a 'naked bike' look.  My K&N air filter is a massive thing, a cylinder bigger than a beer can, so wouldn't fit with the right side panel toolbox anyway.  My 'rags' in the catch can are based on your 'old sock/underpants' idea to monitor and absorb oil blowoff. 

Chuck

            No, no. I didn't mean you should put the K&N in the air filter case. I know your K&N is directly on the carb throat where it should be.

             All I meant to say is my right case is empty & that's where I terminated the end of the CC breather hose. Now I see you can't do that 'cause your case is gone.

              Mine has been working really well so far.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:49:02 PM by tooseevee »
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Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2013, 07:05:44 PM »
About to take it for a spin.  I'm hoping the direct vertical 'stand pipe' keeps the burps in the bike.  If so, I will soon transition to a more simplistic setup... maybe back to duckbill on the chain.


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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2013, 11:02:37 PM »
Just a note about catch-can or catch-bottle or none.

The catch-can on the AVL works to collect and recirculate engine oil and gasses It has two inlet and two outlets. The large inlet on the bottom of the can is the breather from the oil tank, it should have a duckbill on the inside of the can and the stock tubing will have a 90 degree bend at the oil tank.  The mid size oil return line on the bottom of the can returns any oil in the catch-can back to the engine through the back of the timing chest.  The tubing for this, has a 90 degree bend that goes to the back of the timing chest.  The small inlet on the bottom of the can is a breather from the primary case.  The outlet on the side of the catch-can, near the top, is a breather to return gasses to the engine through the air box, carburetor and into the combustion chamber to be reburned.

The catch-bottle is often used for road racing.  It will catch and hold oil from the breather and allow the engine gasses to release into the air without reburning them.  By using a catch-bottle no oil from the breather will deposit on the track.  At the end of the race the catch-bottle is emptied and oil is added to the engine to makeup for the lose.

Open breather, no catch-can or catch-bottle.  An open breather with or without a duckbill, on the AVL engine, I have found, will loose some oil, no matter how I routed the breather hose.  The oil tank needed to be topped up from time to time.  Also oil from the breather ended up on the ground.

I'm back to running the catch-can.  I'm using a pancake air filter so I just ran the breather hose that went to the air box down behind the gear box.  I also use F type ATF in the primary so I run the primary breather line to the back of the gear box too, just to keep engine oil out of my ATF in the primary.  The small inlet on the catch-can I use as a overflow drain and put a short tube on it to drain over the drive chain.  To date the catch-can has not filled to drain out this overflow.  I don't need to empty a catch-bottle and add oil back to the oil tank.  I don't loose oil out of the breather hose allover the ground, having to replenish oil to the tank every day.  I just ride my motorcycle and check my oil level after the last ride of the day.  I never need to add oil between oil changes.  One needs to route the breather hoses with no low places and no kinks and don't over fill the oil tank for the catch-can to work the way it should.  Check the oil level after the engine has run.  Shut the engine off, wait about a minute or so and then check the oil level.  This is what I found about the AVL engine and this subject.

Royal Enfield people are good people

Cheers,
Bill                                   
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 09:35:25 PM by Bill Harris »

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2013, 08:41:15 AM »
Thanks very much Bill-  After my 50 mile ride into work today there is oil all over the place again.  As I expected, the catch can on its side is anything but oil-tight.  I, too think I'm going to go back to the stock setup with the recirculation line into the timing case.  I'll keep the primary case line plugged since I've read that it does nothing anyway.  Air line will drain onto the chain (and any overflow gunk along with it), and hopefully this setup'll keep me from getting an oil bath every time I ride. 

I need to check out my cylinder again and see if I can do Ace's retroactive drilling and old-fashioned breather.  Seems rather invasive, but if it'll be a better engineered fix, that might be the way to go.  For now I'll settle with recirculating the oil into the timing case.

I'd like to do the krank vent, but I'm thinking that I have too much oil coming up out of my crankcase for even that to work... and I don't want to spend 100 bucks just to try it and fail.  For my commute, I have about 30 minutes of sustained 60 mph highway riding.  The only way around this is to go through a bunch of annoying small towns with traffic lights every block, and it'd take three times as long.

May try to rig the catch can back to its stock location over my lunch break if I can finagle it with the parts I have with me.

Thanks again!
Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2013, 11:05:24 AM »
This is not exactly 'simplifying' things, but would this be a good idea? 

My thoughts with the PCV valve, barbed T connectors, and the screen are to allow venting of the gases, but the draining back of any fluids in the air blowoff into the timing case (merges with the standard timing case recirculation line).  Would oil flow through the PCV?  If this would work, the intention would be to avoid any and all fluid spray from the system, but this might not be necessary, or worth the trouble.

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2013, 02:56:33 PM »
Your "T" with a screen on top is just duplicating what the can is supposed to do.
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Techmaven

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2013, 06:32:38 PM »
His problem isn't wet sumping.
Oh yeah, like REpozer said, don't try to keep it higher than half full on the dipstick.  It just spits the oil out.

Well then what was the original reason for making changes to his breather system?

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2013, 06:36:44 PM »
Ah, I see.  But to get rid of the catch can and only use the T with screen in conjunction with a PCV valve would probably spew oil right out the screen?  Seems like that kind of setup would be similar to my current issue. 

BTW I rigged the catch can back to original location and I'm running the CC hose and Timing Case hose to it.  Top blowoff tube is open and routed to the rear of the bike.  It doesn't seem to be spewing anything so I'll probably shorten the run, or send it right under the bike.

With the catch can setup as I currently do, is there still merit to running the crank case hose straight up to the carb then back over, or is it just as good to have it do the 90 degree bend right out of the crank case?

PS just read this last response... I got rid of my stock catch can initially with the desire to strip down and simplify my bike.  I got rid of the stock airbox, so it seemed natural to do something with the catch can since it no longer had a place to go, and I was experiencing wetness in the stock airbox.

Cheers,

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2013, 08:44:46 PM »
This is one of those RE things that some people have a problem with and some don't.  Those who don't have no need to worry.  There's no point in trying to fix something that's not broke.
However, I had the same problem and solved it by doing as ACE suggested.  Others have just run the tube from the oil tank straight up then over to the can, just turning it around, and that solved their problem.
I kept getting mayonnaise in my can so eliminated it entirely and added the Krankvent to cause a slight vacuum in the crankcase.   That fixed mine.
Still others have reverted to the old style system with the breather on the side of the crankcase and no can.  Sort of like asking how to make your wife happy, they're all different.  :)
I first asked ACE about it when an older fellow with a '60s Triumph told me to put a PCV valve for a Toyota in line and replace it every year.  He suggested Krankvent which I balked at because of the price.  But it was worth it to me.
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tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2013, 07:25:51 AM »

PS just read this last response... I got rid of my stock catch can initially with the desire to strip down and simplify my bike.  I got rid of the stock airbox, so it seemed natural to do something with the catch can since it no longer had a place to go, and I was experiencing wetness in the stock airbox.
Cheers,
Chuck

            Mine blew oil into the airbox ONCE (spring of 2011, bike was brand new) soaked the air filter & dripped through the hinge & all over the giant muffler & the rear of the bike. I immediately tore all the hoses & cans & tubes off, put & K&N filter right on the carb & rerouted the CC breather hose into the empty air filter case as I've talked about here before. Zero problems since then. No oil spewing anywhere. At most I get a slight oil mist out of the duckbill. I haven't even had to change the old pair of underwear I stuck in there; not a skidmark on them  ;)

     For me simplicity is always the goal. I'm gonna work on a battery inside that right side case next & do away with that huge battery & the holder & everything. I don't like the way the battery cover fits & it hurts my hands getting it off & back on.  Besides, I never use the starter & never ride at night. The battery in the harley is 1/2 the size of the RE battery.     
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Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2013, 01:37:12 PM »
Good to hear Gentlemen,

I may try the PCV valve as a cheap 'trial' of what the krankvent would be like.  For now, my pseudostock setup is working fine. 

tooseevee, I should be getting a new (small) battery delivered in an hour or so (as soon as Fedex gets here, if they arrive before 5 when I leave).  I opted for a tiny dirtbike battery since my machine is kick-only at the moment (broken solenoid).  I'll let you know how it turns out for me.  Cost about 10 bucks, with 10 bucks for shipping.  best part is that is's only about an inch and a half thick, so I can tuck it up under the seat or something out of the way.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2013, 03:02:34 PM »
Hi super chuck...think your PVC Fix might work, in the same location as the krankvent.  I bought the Bunn breather, again, A hundred bucks,  it still burped oil.  My solution was to buy some window screen, roll it up like a cigarette , stuff it in the tube just above the nipple.   At the timing case nipple, I had a hose about 2 feet long, with a cheap little filter. It was the intake. To test it you blow air through the hose into the timing case nipple, and the air comes out at the  crank case nipple, up through your PCVvalve over the frame under the seat.
     You will have to experiment with the amount of window screen cigarette " baffle" to use in the hose to prevent oil burping through your PCV valve. Up under the seat and out wherever
      Search " crankcase breather, June 13 , 2012, put up a couple pics.
       It worked good , but last week I got out my drill ....just had to do it...the old style breather...pics next week
          Matt

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2013, 03:31:47 PM »
For the pics, just search "breather",  # 5 on the list,    Matthew Johnson   

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2013, 09:10:49 AM »
Since I believe I have a similar configuration of RE, I'm going to try the same route.  Did you place any kind of valve between the CC and the duck bill?  Did you close off the timing box and primary vents?  When I pulled off my catch can, I had all that mayo in the can. I sure don't want that stuff all over the place.

Also, did you pull off the PAV?  I have read elsewhere that on the AVL, that can over heat the exhaust valve.

            Mine blew oil into the airbox ONCE (spring of 2011, bike was brand new) soaked the air filter & dripped through the hinge & all over the giant muffler & the rear of the bike. I immediately tore all the hoses & cans & tubes off, put & K&N filter right on the carb & rerouted the CC breather hose into the empty air filter case as I've talked about here before. Zero problems since then. No oil spewing anywhere. At most I get a slight oil mist out of the duckbill. I haven't even had to change the old pair of underwear I stuck in there; not a skidmark on them  ;)

     For me simplicity is always the goal. I'm gonna work on a battery inside that right side case next & do away with that huge battery & the holder & everything. I don't like the way the battery cover fits & it hurts my hands getting it off & back on.  Besides, I never use the starter & never ride at night. The battery in the harley is 1/2 the size of the RE battery.   
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
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Electric Start
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Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2013, 12:14:24 AM »
Ok.... since I can't stop experimenting I'm considering rigging a system using 2 PCV valves and a T-connector. 

Here's what I'm thinking:  Run a tube straight up from the crank case to the carb area.  PCV valve goes here.  Tubing attaches to that which drains back down to the timing case.  Halfway down this timing case tube is a T-connector with a tube coming back up under the seat for air ventilation.  The second PCV valve will go on the end of this last ventilation tube as a failsafe for oil spray out the breather.

My concern is this: Will 2 PCV tubes be too restrictive to offer proper engine breathing?

I'll be relying on gravity for most of this, and the hope that the PCV will do a better job of keeping in that rascally oil shower than the duckbill has proven to do.

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2013, 12:20:48 AM »
Two valves in line shouldn't matter since it's good to create a vacuum in the crankcase.  But it probably won't do any more than putting the old duckbill on the end of the line.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 01:27:36 AM by D the D »
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Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2013, 10:20:06 AM »
Ok, that said, here's another scheme.  I really like this one but it leaves the timing case open to air... is this bad?


Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2013, 10:33:25 AM »
Come to think about it again, it is NOT a problem for the timing case tube to be open air... in the stock setup that's exactly what it's doing, correct?  The open tube which connects to the stock air cleaner does not create a vacuum...

Does anyone see any other problems with this scheme?

D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2013, 11:34:45 AM »
My 07 came with a valve in the timing case line.  It just clogged up, but you can give it a shot.
Ideally you'd create vacuum inside the engine case, so if using two hoses you'd need two check valves (PCV valves), one in each hose.  But, to create vacuum in the crankcase the valves have to let air out but not back in.  It's the vertical initial run of the hose and the vacuum that hold the oil in.
A "T" joining both hoses before the valve would do that, too.  Simpler and just as effective to plug the timing cover vent like I show in my photo posted earlier.  I have no oil coming out the of my hose that runs to the end of the fender.
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
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1975 XLCH

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2013, 12:25:29 PM »
Hmm... I was under the impression that the timing case only had negative pressure (sucking in), and that the stock setup does not create a vacuum.  Unless the oil flowing back down the timing tube creates this illusion of a vacuum?

I picked up a cheapo PCV valve over my lunch break and I might experiment with this tonight.  I like the T option too, but it sounds like I'll probably get oil spraying out of the PCV in that case.  Worth a shot though!

Might be back to stock again after all this trouble anyway... but it's the experimentation I love.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2013, 12:37:32 PM »
It has sucking in because it is connected to the oil tank which is supposed to suck in due to the duckbill on the end of that hose.  You don't need a timing cover vent at all.  Having it open reduces the effectiveness of creating a vacuum on the oil tank line.
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ERC

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2013, 01:35:36 PM »
Leaving the timing cover vent open will leak oil out of it I think and also relieve pressure to the oil tank vent. So if you have a duckbill on it the duckbill won't work to give you proper crankcase pressure.  ERC
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2013, 05:20:29 PM »
People thinking of using a PCV in their crankcase vent system need to realize it is not a simple one way valve like a duckbill.  It is designed to operate somewhere between fully open and fully closed, changing its position in response to the position of the throttle valve.

The PCV's job is to control the amount of vacuum from the inlet manifold that reaches the crankcase of the engine.

In a automotive engine, when an engine is idling and the maximum vacuum is in the inlet manifold, the valve closes to minimize the suction that is applied to the crankcase.
When the engine is at full throttle and the manifold vacuum is at its minimum, the PCV valve is fully open to allow what little vacuum exists in the manifold to provide as much suction to the crankcase as it possibly can.

If a PCV valve is installed with the crankcase side towards a motorcycle crankcase the valve will interpret the rising pressure as the piston descends as being a high vacuum in the inlet manifold and the valve will close.  This will pressurize the crankcase which is just the opposite of what we want to do.

If the PCV valve is installed with the outlet (manifold) side toward the crankcase, the valve will interpret the higher crankcase pressure as the piston descends as a low inlet manifold pressure so the valve will open allowing the higher crankcase pressure to escape.

These PCV valves are designed for systems where changes in the inlet manifold vacuum occur rather slowly and not very often.  They really are not designed to open and close 67 times a second which is the number of times the piston is traveling downward when the engine is running at 4000 rpm.

A rubber duckbill on the other hand can easily open and close 67 times a second (and faster).  (That's lower (slower) than open E on the lowest sounding guitar string).

As for having multiple PCV's installed in a system, remember, these things are not 100 percent efficient so each one added to a system will reduce the systems ability to let out the crankcase pressure.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 05:22:58 PM by Arizoni »
Jim
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2013, 06:03:29 PM »
Thanks for the great info- I was totally misunderstanding this before.

So I have my new PCV valve.  It's this one:  http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_pcv-valve-purolator_5850509-p

When I suck on the fat end, it closes (lets very little air in... ie: creates an [almost] vacuum.)

Do I want to connect this big end towards my crank case?  That's what I was assuming, as this would simulate the duckbill's action.

Thanks!

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2013, 06:11:46 PM »
The fat end that closes when you suck on it and opens when you blow is the end to point towards the crankcase.

Consider this as the "IN" end and the other port as the "OUT" end.
Jim
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2013, 06:51:33 PM »
Thanks very much-

Second question in regards to timing case pressure:
I haven't hooked up this new experiment yet, and I am still using a version of the OEM breather catch can. 

In my current setup, the crank case breather tube goes to the bottom of the catch can (with OEM duckbill location).  The timing case tube goes to the bottom of the catch can (as in OEM setup).  I have the third bottom hole plugged, and I have my primary case plugged.  The vent tube coming out of the top of the catch can, which used to go into my OEM air cleaner, now is open to the air- no duckbill, no PCV, nothing.

It is my belief that this open tube is causing a loss of pressure in the timing case, which is in turn reducing the effectiveness of my duckbill which creates a vacuum in the crankcase line.

I am also under the impression that in the OEM setup, this would still be the case.  In other words, in the OEM catch can setup, the timing case experiences a loss of pressure due to the OEM airbox tube.

Please let me know if I'm being dense.  I want to understand this ridiculous system so I can try and figure out my best solution.

Thanks!

Chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2013, 08:05:35 PM »
You want to create vacuum in the crankcase relieving the pressure.  The Timing Case is connected to the oil tank by a drain passage.  Capping the Timing Case breather port will accomplish this.  Letting air into the Timing Case negates what you want.  The original design only had a breather on the side of the crankcase below the barrel with a duckbill on the end of a hose.  It was eliminated and the others created to pass emissions requirements.  It wasn't done to improve anything.
Pressure inside the crankcase and oil tank are helping to blow the oil out the vent hose.
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Arizoni

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2013, 08:56:01 PM »
I shouldn't get into this any more than I have but I believe there are three separate areas involved here.
There is the crankcase with the crankshaft/rod/piston which is the area that should be kept at as low of a pressure as possible.  The gasses that leak past the piston rings and the downward movement of the piston can create a high pressure in this area

There is the timing case which indirectly receives the oil that was scavenged from the crankcase by the scavenge oil pump.  This scavenged oil is first pumped to the rocker arms/valve area and then drains down into it.
In the timing case the collected oil lubricates the cam gears and the cam followers (valve lifters).
As more oil collects in the timing case, the excess drains back into the oil tank thru a connecting hole as D the D said.

There is the oil tank which is at about the same pressure as the timing case.

To aid the scavenge pump with its work, the air pressure in the timing case and the oil sump should be a slight vacuum.  This is presently accomplished by attaching the vent from the timing case to the air filter housing downstream from the airfilter.

Something to think about with this timing case/oil tank:  As the engine heats up the air inside these areas will expand.  In order to maintain a low pressure in these areas the expanded air needs a way of escaping.

I believe the original concept was the pressure in the crankcase would be released via the duck bill into the catch can.
The air and oil mist/droplets that come with it are collected in the catch can which serves as a separator and returned to the timing case.  The oil is supposed to return to the oil tank while the air is supposed to vent to the air filter.

I may have missed a hose here and perhaps the air in the catch can is supposed to vent to the outside air but that would defeat the idea of keeping the polluted air from escaping into the atmosphere.
Jim
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2013, 10:55:01 PM »
The way mine came the oil that ran from the oil tank up to the catch can was supposed to run down to the Timing Cover and then drain back to the oil tank from the Timing Chest.  The line from the catch can to the Timing Cover had a one way valve in the middle of it that was supposed to only let air/oil move from the can down to the Timing Cover. Any fumes vented from the Oil Tank to the Catch Can were to be vented into the Air Box/Filter and burned in the engine.  Didn't work.  Oil went from the Catch Can to the Air Filter.  Pressure in the Oil Tank and Timing Chest are probably roughly the same and no circulation of oil occurred.
And yes, this has been beat to death in numerous threads.  We're going in circles and I'm out.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2013, 11:06:29 PM »
I still have some questions because I'm still trying to understand this engine.  I understand you guys are getting tired of beating this horse.

Thank you Arizoni for explaining the process.  I would like to completely not vent anything to that right side case so that I could use it for other things.  I'm not crazy about cleaning the catch can either.  So why does this engine create mayo?  Is it too much oil, just simple agitation in the crank case, normal operation leaking out as a result of too much pressure in the CC.    It looks to me as though the timing case return line/vent and CC vent are a looped process and need to stay that way.  If the oil can was eliminated from the loop, would the timing case get filled with the mayo goop?  So how does one eliminate the mayo?

Also another problem that I believe is coupled to this issue is the exact amount of oil that should be in this engine.  The manual indicates 2.25 quarts roughly.  I have read elsewhere that I should refill the oil through the exhaust valve cover if I have changed the oil filter.  This process primes the filter and pump so that engine will not operate dry when started the first time.  Just how much oil should be installed through that port and how much through the oil tank?  I read where Bill has 1.5 quarts in his oil tank.  It seems reasonable that the proper amount of oil maintained could eliminate or relax the agitation that creates the mayo.

Thanks for your thoughts.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2013, 11:07:40 PM »
Superchuck -  I messed around for MONTHS trying to build an effective catch can and messing with PCVs and everything I did just made a different problem.  I finally said screw it and I now just run the crank breather straight out the back fender and I lose WAY more oil out of my leaky crank case than I do out of the breather.  Do yourself a favor and rather than making a mess of a small problem just get the damn duckbill and be done with it.  I wish I had ordered one when I first started wrenching on this bike.  Would have saved me a lot of oil messes and headaches.

Scottie


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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2013, 11:14:07 PM »
Superchuck -  I messed around for MONTHS trying to build an effective catch can and messing with PCVs and everything I did just made a different problem.  I finally said screw it and I now just run the crank breather straight out the back fender and I lose WAY more oil out of my leaky crank case than I do out of the breather.  Do yourself a favor and rather than making a mess of a small problem just get the damn duckbill and be done with it.  I wish I had ordered one when I first started wrenching on this bike.  Would have saved me a lot of oil messes and headaches.

Scottie

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2013, 11:52:31 PM »
Buckeroo
I can't help you with the amount of oil that is needed in your engine or to prime the pump.
I don't own a AVL so I don't have hands on knowledge.

The mayo is there because of the water thats collected in your crankcase and probably in your oil sump (tank).
The water is one of the things that are made when gasoline burns and it enters the oily areas as steam that can leak past the piston rings.
The steam mist and the oil mist in the crankcase combine to form this stuff.

Automobiles use a positive crankcase ventilation system using the intake manifold vacuum and the PCV valve to pump it into the inlet where it is burned by the engine.

Motorcycles don't use this system so the hose/tube/duck bill/catch can is an attempt to do it.

Once the water is mixed into the oil, the best way of getting rid of it without changing the oil is to get the oil really hot.  Venting the water off (without loosing the oil) is the problem.
Jim
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2013, 08:25:52 AM »
Yep.  It isn't a problem specific to RE either.  My brother had a Triumph Trident that made mayo and I have had a Jeep and a couple of cars that made it when it was humid and I was only making short trips.  It would form under the valve covers and clog the PCV up.  Like Arizoni said, longer rides give time for the water to evaporate out of the oil and be expelled from the engine.  Mayo is a good term for it 'cause it's an emulsion of water and air in oil.  In one of the other threads I posted pictures of how bad it would get in my RE catch can in just a few weeks of short, local rides.  Short rides on cool, rainy days were worst.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2013, 11:12:39 AM »
okay, guys, thanks for your patience.  I guess the next step is to create a can easier to clean out, or just put up with the spray.  Now, after all these years I understand why the pcv has to always be replaced.  I have seen that mayo on the valve covers too. I wish that I could reroute the overflow at the top of the can back into the engine somewhere or someplace that wouldn't spray back on the bike.  It's funny how my little Honda SL125 from back in the 70's didn't have all these problems.  It just had a breather cap on top of the Crank case.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2013, 02:29:00 PM »
okay, guys, thanks for your patience.  I guess the next step is to create a can easier to clean out, or just put up with the spray.  Now, after all these years I understand why the pcv has to always be replaced.  I have seen that mayo on the valve covers too. I wish that I could reroute the overflow at the top of the can back into the engine somewhere or someplace that wouldn't spray back on the bike.  It's funny how my little Honda SL125 from back in the 70's didn't have all these problems.  It just had a breather cap on top of the Crank case.

           Your little Hondas's oil probably got hotter than the RE's + I don't think our Federal government thought they were motorcycle engine engineers yet when your little Honda was made. The oil in the RE takes a long time to get hot & lots of short trips to town & then home just don't do it.

        I loved the little scramblers/dirt bikes of the '70s. Hodaka, Bultaco, all the screaming little meemies. You could even make a screamer out of the little Honda 90s & others for the kids then.

         Have dry sump engines (like my shovelheads) gone away? Never any mayo or anything out of my shovel's CC vent unless I let it sit too long. The oil just does its job & is routed back to the separate oil tank to then go from there to the oil pump again. The oil tank also serves as a little bit of a cooler. Some shovels of certain years actually had factory OEM oil coolers.   
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2013, 03:22:23 PM »
The problem is, most of my travels and the reason for this bike, is for short trips to town 5-8 miles.  Most neighborhood trips are less than a mile.  The Honda 250 that I have borrowed to do my running on just has a breather box off the crank case, though it may have some way to catch mayo, I can't tell.  I'm sure its little cold blooded engine gets heated up because of its high revs. It has to choke for several miles before it will run normal however.  I do use the RE for some 100 mile runs, but they are few between.  If I working on some mods to do some light-medium touring.  I am some inspired my NoisyMilk.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2013, 09:57:33 PM »
Thanks everyone for the awesome information.  Just trying to learn here, and I really appreciate all the help.

Two things I've learned:

1.  I'm probably best to just keep the OEM catch can.
2.  I probably won't have much of a problem with mayo since when I ride, it's usually 100+ miles a day of partial highway commuting.  Running it that hard, I think I'll have bigger fish to fry, with mayo being the least of my worries.

I'll probably still experiment though... can't help myself.  I'm coming up with an idea now that involves an ammo hopper from a paintball gun.    May not build it but it's the idea that's the fun part.

Cheers, and thanks again for reiterating the info.  (I think I get it now)

chuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2013, 11:42:15 AM »
My two cents on this awesomely chewed yet nagging topic!
I did quite a few mods on the breather after getting fed up of the mayo every now and then.
#Blocked the pipe from catch can to the air filter.
#Along with the above, blocked the pipe that goes from the catch can to the timing chest vent.
#Put on a duckbill on the timing vent and ran the open end of the catch can pipe near the side stand, without any duckbill.
Blocked the catch can-air filter line.
#Blocked the duckbill on the timing chest, air filter outlet blocked, CC connected to catch can and the catch can pipe to the timing chest hanging open near the side stand.

With all of the above variations, the catch can pipe to the primary case was blocked.
However, none of these proved to be a permanent solution to the mayo build up. As already mentioned, this is more prominent during short city runs and also during high speed riding.
Right now, my bike runs so bad that I dont feel like riding it at all.

So, gentlemen, what is the final solution!!
Is it that we should live with the factory set way of the catch can plumbing?
Nevertheless, the bike runs like shit and am really fed up with the erratic running.


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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2013, 04:09:49 PM »

Right now, my bike runs so bad that I dont feel like riding it at all.

So, gentlemen, what is the final solution!!
Is it that we should live with the factory set way of the catch can plumbing?
Nevertheless, the bike runs like shit and am really fed up with the erratic running.

              Do you feel like starting a new topic & laying out what's wrong & including the bike's present state; jets, state of tune, what you've done? Some history?
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2013, 04:19:47 PM »
Hi Machismo,  I certainly feel your pain.  I cant say that im an expert or that I've been able to eliminate the mayo; I'm not and I havent.  But I'll share what I've done and my thinking (right or wrong i cant say):

1.  I've kept the OEM catch can;  I dont like oily spray or a mess under the bike.
2.  Crank Case airline:  Routed by HIGH over the frame and then back down to the can.  Im using a clear hose I got from a hardware supplier so I can see what the f*** is going on. 
3.  I've blocked the timing chest line.  The design of this is actually a drain from the can back into the timing chest.  There is actually a duckbill in the timing chest that allows goo in, but doesnt allow goo or pressure out. 
4.  Left the primary case hose alone.  It still goes to the can.  I figure since I use nearly a liter of oil in the case, maybe a pressure relief is needed.  Honestly, I've never check it... hmmmm
5.  Where the Timing Chest hose used to connect to the can, I've installed about a 6 inch hose with a plumbers valve on it.  This is my drain.  It's also a clear hose so I can see when the mayo needs draining.  Works great after a ride.  I hide it behind the battery cover and then whip it out to drain the beast.
6.  Air line from can to the air box.  I've left this in place.  My thinking is if the C Case breather system needs to maintain a negative pressure, i need a fresh air line into the can to allow the mayo goo to enter into the can and therefore dont want a sealed pressure vessel (PV=nRT - not that the can is really that 'air tight').  Basically, I want the CC hose to remain clear and the stuff needs to be able to enter into the can with the neg pressure created by the duckbill. 

Is it really any different than stock?  Well, no not really except running high. But I have a drain without have to disassemble the left side of the bike! 

I still get mayo... especially when Im running short or hard.  But i dont care... just drain the beast.  Performance wise, Ive been running this way for over a year now.  Havent seen any decrease in performance, but I also make sure my lines are clear and free. 

As a suggestion: How about leaving your setup as is, with the air line open and not blocked?  Just an idea. 
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Arizoni

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2013, 04:44:57 PM »
I like your system Dan and I agree with you about leaving the air vent line open.

When the engine is running there is a bit of "blowby" that passes the piston rings and enters the crankcase.  Without some vent to the outside, this blowby has no place to go so it will pressurize the crankcase.

The added pressure will decrease the engines performance and can contribute to oil leaks thru the seals and flat gaskets.
Jim
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2013, 07:46:20 PM »
Thanks Arizoni. You've put into words what I was thinking but just couldn't articulate properly.

I have a 2006 with the lump on the barrel. Have wondered if I should open that up instead. And that's as far as I've gotten.... Wondering..
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2013, 04:15:27 AM »
Hi Machismo,  I certainly feel your pain.  I cant say that im an expert or that I've been able to eliminate the mayo; I'm not and I havent.  But I'll share what I've done and my thinking (right or wrong i cant say):

1.  I've kept the OEM catch can;  I dont like oily spray or a mess under the bike.
2.  Crank Case airline:  Routed by HIGH over the frame and then back down to the can.  Im using a clear hose I got from a hardware supplier so I can see what the f*** is going on. 
3.  I've blocked the timing chest line.  The design of this is actually a drain from the can back into the timing chest.  There is actually a duckbill in the timing chest that allows goo in, but doesnt allow goo or pressure out. 
4.  Left the primary case hose alone.  It still goes to the can.  I figure since I use nearly a liter of oil in the case, maybe a pressure relief is needed.  Honestly, I've never check it... hmmmm
5.  Where the Timing Chest hose used to connect to the can, I've installed about a 6 inch hose with a plumbers valve on it.  This is my drain.  It's also a clear hose so I can see when the mayo needs draining.  Works great after a ride.  I hide it behind the battery cover and then whip it out to drain the beast.
6.  Air line from can to the air box.  I've left this in place.  My thinking is if the C Case breather system needs to maintain a negative pressure, i need a fresh air line into the can to allow the mayo goo to enter into the can and therefore dont want a sealed pressure vessel (PV=nRT - not that the can is really that 'air tight').  Basically, I want the CC hose to remain clear and the stuff needs to be able to enter into the can with the neg pressure created by the duckbill. 

Is it really any different than stock?  Well, no not really except running high. But I have a drain without have to disassemble the left side of the bike! 

I still get mayo... especially when Im running short or hard.  But i dont care... just drain the beast.  Performance wise, Ive been running this way for over a year now.  Havent seen any decrease in performance, but I also make sure my lines are clear and free. 

As a suggestion: How about leaving your setup as is, with the air line open and not blocked?  Just an idea. 
Thanks a lot Dan. This ride means a lot to me and despite the hassles, I love it(and working on it) and do not want to go the UCE way - this motorcycle has way too much of character.
I agree with your suggestion of opening up the catch can-air filter line. Will do it today.
About #3 of your post: Crank Case airline:  Routed by HIGH over the frame and then back down to the can.
Could you post a picture? In my case, the hose is a factory made one and its such a struggle to get it over the frame, behind the battery case. Far too little space, actually.
Also, that clear hose pipe of yours - can it withstand the high temperature? I kinda killed the thought of using the normal clear pipes, the last thing i want is a melted crank case hose pipe!


I like your system Dan and I agree with you about leaving the air vent line open.

When the engine is running there is a bit of "blowby" that passes the piston rings and enters the crankcase.  Without some vent to the outside, this blowby has no place to go so it will pressurize the crankcase.

The added pressure will decrease the engines performance and can contribute to oil leaks thru the seals and flat gaskets.
You put in so few words and that's so very comprehensible!
Thanks Arizoni..

              Do you feel like starting a new topic & laying out what's wrong & including the bike's present state; jets, state of tune, what you've done? Some history?
Thanks tooseevee. For now, I just want to fight this breather demon, hence did not start a new thread. Once a good set up is obtained, probably things may take a positive turn.
Will keep you posted.

Came early from work, am going to have the hot tube put back in the header since after about 6 months of riding without it, the low end torque has certainly gone for a toss - having done an upjet with #17.5 pilot to compensate for the change and the glass wool goldstar exhaust.
If I get any spare time, will also re-route the breather hoses today and see if it makes any difference.
Thanks a lot guys.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2013, 10:50:18 AM »
Update folks:
Got the hot tube welded back on the header pipe.
Rode back home while noticing that the low end jerks had considerably reduced.
Re routed the catch can-air filter hose(which I had stupidly blocked using M-Seal).
The motorcycle runs so much better. Incredible what a couple of changes effect this bike! Still not sure if this is the perfect set up.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2013, 11:20:35 AM »
Excellent news!  Nice work.
Quote
Could you post a picture? In my case, the hose is a factory made one and its such a struggle to get it over the frame, behind the battery case. Far too little space, actually.
Also, that clear hose pipe of yours - can it withstand the high temperature?

I dont have a pic at work, but honestly, it looks nearly identical to Bill's pic on page 1 of this thread, 1st post.  The clear hose (im thinking is just a PVC) really isnt troubled by temperature at the case.  It doesnt get as hot as you'd think at the contact point.  I did have trouble making the turns without crimping, so I used small copper plumbing fittings to help make the turns.  I do make sure every month or so to clear the lines;  Easy to know when to do so as you can see right into it. 
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ace.cafe

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2013, 11:24:51 AM »
Remember that these bikes are designed to be operated at medium and higher rpms.
Riding at low rpms that cause chain jerk is to be avoided at all times.
I realize that there is some sort of cultural thing in India which involves lugging the engines to death at low rpms in high gears, but I assure you that this practice is not "cool" and is damaging the engine.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2013, 11:58:56 AM »
Remember that these bikes are designed to be operated at medium and higher rpms.
Riding at low rpms that cause chain jerk is to be avoided at all times.
I realize that there is some sort of cultural thing in India which involves lugging the engines to death at low rpms in high gears, but I assure you that this practice is not "cool" and is damaging the engine.
Totally(sadly as well) agree with your point on people here lugging the Bulls. More than cultural thing, it's almost attained a cult status.
However, when I meant by low end jerks, it was about how effortlessly the bike pulled from 2nd gear, with speed around 20kmph. When I had the hot tube removed, I constantly use the clutch to control the lack of torque under same circumstances(even with an up jetted carb). I am gonna open a new thread on this damn tube! Hope you'll pen down your thoughts there.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2013, 01:17:59 PM »
Totally(sadly as well) agree with your point on people here lugging the Bulls. More than cultural thing, it's almost attained a cult status.
However, when I meant by low end jerks, it was about how effortlessly the bike pulled from 2nd gear, with speed around 20kmph. When I had the hot tube removed, I constantly use the clutch to control the lack of torque under same circumstances(even with an up jetted carb). I am gonna open a new thread on this damn tube! Hope you'll pen down your thoughts there.

        I have NONE of these "torque" problems in my '08 AVL with K&N intake & wide open exhaust (muffler) & the hot tube removed. You have to do a lot of carb learning & rejetting & experimenting to get them right. I've probably had the carb off (or just the top off) 20 times, but that's what you gotta do if you want to make intake & exhaust mods & if you're not ready to do it you should leave it as it is when it comes out the last door in Chennai.

        I only have 880 miles as of today so I've not ever REALLY porked it yet, but it will jump to 40 like a rocket (an RE "rocket") in 3rd gear. And it will jump like a rocket (again, an RE rocket) from 40 to 60 in 4th OR 5th just rolling the throttle on. I also don't feel any of these "torque problems" around town in ANY gear. I'm also NEVER in 4th under 40 & it never dies in traffic or at stop signs (& leave that clutch lever out).

         I think I'm leaning more & more toward getting an electronic tach next season (instead of Hagons). I'll have over a 1,000 by then & I'm the type who just wants to "know".
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Machismo

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2013, 10:14:44 AM »
Excellent news!  Nice work.
I dont have a pic at work, but honestly, it looks nearly identical to Bill's pic on page 1 of this thread, 1st post.  The clear hose (im thinking is just a PVC) really isnt troubled by temperature at the case.  It doesnt get as hot as you'd think at the contact point.  I did have trouble making the turns without crimping, so I used small copper plumbing fittings to help make the turns.  I do make sure every month or so to clear the lines;  Easy to know when to do so as you can see right into it. 
I usually check the mayo can during overnight stays while on the long rides(about 500miles), otherwise once in a fortnight.
Will see if i can find some clear hoses - much simpler to see what's happening.

        I have NONE of these "torque" problems in my '08 AVL with K&N intake & wide open exhaust (muffler) & the hot tube removed. You have to do a lot of carb learning & rejetting & experimenting to get them right. I've probably had the carb off (or just the top off) 20 times, but that's what you gotta do if you want to make intake & exhaust mods & if you're not ready to do it you should leave it as it is when it comes out the last door in Chennai.

        I only have 880 miles as of today so I've not ever REALLY porked it yet, but it will jump to 40 like a rocket (an RE "rocket") in 3rd gear. And it will jump like a rocket (again, an RE rocket) from 40 to 60 in 4th OR 5th just rolling the throttle on. I also don't feel any of these "torque problems" around town in ANY gear. I'm also NEVER in 4th under 40 & it never dies in traffic or at stop signs (& leave that clutch lever out).

         I think I'm leaning more & more toward getting an electronic tach next season (instead of Hagons). I'll have over a 1,000 by then & I'm the type who just wants to "know".
Well I did try out a lot of jet options with the stock BS29, almost so repetitively that I could get teh carb off , jet change and back on in about 30min.
But once I installed the BS32, just did one change of plonking in a 17.5 pilot and 120 main. This set up did work well for a couple of months. Not sure what happened after that.
So will have to see if the current setting work right.
Am also gonna check the clutch tune up as well.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2013, 03:22:44 PM »

Well I did try out a lot of jet options with the stock BS29, almost so repetitively that I could get the carb off , jet change and back on in about 30min.
But once I installed the BS32, just did one change of plonking in a 17.5 pilot and 120 main. This set up did work well for a couple of months. Not sure what happened after that.
So will have to see if the current setting work right.

              I forgot you switched carbs.

               I haven't been able to post anything this afternoon for some reason. This is one more try in a series of many one more trys.

               (Well, this one finally worked).    :)
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Buckeroo

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2013, 08:52:25 PM »
Hello Machismo,
I have decided to keep the catch can design except for the hose to the oil air cleaner.  I will build a larger catch can which will be placed where my current battery sits so I can get at it easier.  I will run all the hoses the same way except I will leave some space at the bottom of the larger can for the mayo to collect.  Oil overflow will flow back into Timing Case.  I'm not big on blowing it out.  There are a lot of folks adding catch cans to modern machines so there must be something to it.  I like the idea of separating out the mayo simply because my riding does involve a lot of short trips and the mayo will happen.  I will place a breather on top of the new can.

As for the other problems you are getting some good advice from the experts.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Machismo

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2013, 07:22:48 AM »
Hello Machismo,
I have decided to keep the catch can design except for the hose to the oil air cleaner.  I will build a larger catch can which will be placed where my current battery sits so I can get at it easier.  I will run all the hoses the same way except I will leave some space at the bottom of the larger can for the mayo to collect.  Oil overflow will flow back into Timing Case.  I'm not big on blowing it out.  There are a lot of folks adding catch cans to modern machines so there must be something to it.  I like the idea of separating out the mayo simply because my riding does involve a lot of short trips and the mayo will happen.  I will place a breather on top of the new can.

As for the other problems you are getting some good advice from the experts.
Hi there Buckeroo.
Interesting to hear that folks modern machines going for teh catch can. Wonder why!
About the recycling the oil back to the timing case - I got a bad feeling of having some blobs or just sludgy oil getting into the oil tank.
I have decided to keep the stock set up except one change of having the catch can-timing chest line running open and primary line blocked.

              I forgot you switched carbs.

               I haven't been able to post anything this afternoon for some reason. This is one more try in a series of many one more trys.

               (Well, this one finally worked).    :)
Yes the change of carb worked well for me. More mpg per gallons now and good throttle response as well. The old one must have been really worn out.
Saw some pics of your bike, looks just awesome! Hope you will complete the run-in soon and hit the freeways :)

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2013, 04:27:13 PM »
It's all an experiment.  I'm planning on leaving some adjustment of the pipe draining back into the timing case.  I don't want gunk going back in there either.  However, as I understand this process, I want the excess, if any, to go back into the engine, not on the ground.  With an oil change every 1500 miles, I'm not expecting any blobs to be there very long.  I am surprised that the drain back to the timing case from the OEM can drains from the bottom of the can.  I will not let it do that.
Hi there Buckeroo.
Interesting to hear that folks modern machines going for teh catch can. Wonder why!
About the recycling the oil back to the timing case - I got a bad feeling of having some blobs or just sludgy oil getting into the oil tank.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Machismo

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #94 on: September 28, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »
I don't want gunk going back in there either.  However, as I understand this process, I want the excess, if any, to go back into the engine, not on the ground.  With an oil change every 1500 miles, I'm not expecting any blobs to be there very long.  I am surprised that the drain back to the timing case from the OEM can drains from the bottom of the can.  I will not let it do that.
Right!
The precise reason why I have let the catch can-timing chest line hanging open, near the side stand. I would not want that mayo back in the engine.

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2013, 12:16:34 PM »
I don't like it under the bike or on the bike either.  I have enough problems with the chain and leaks out of some gaskets.
Right!
The precise reason why I have let the catch can-timing chest line hanging open, near the side stand. I would not want that mayo back in the engine.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
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Electronic Ignition
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2013, 02:25:45 PM »
I had followed Tim's instructions of re-routing the crank case hose to the catch-can, and that had solved the issue, but yesterday after a 100 mile 60Mph ride, the bike spewed oil all over the air-filter box.

and since then i have been reading and researching a way to fix this.
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2013, 11:15:48 PM »
Quote
I had followed Tim's instructions of re-routing the crank case hose to the catch-can, and that had solved the issue, but yesterday after a 100 mile 60Mph ride, the bike spewed oil all over the air-filter box.

Are you still using the can?  I don't know of the 'fix' but I'm doing the same as you and still get the mayo. Especially at higher speeds. All I did has block off the timing case line at the case and used that line as a drain method to empty the can from time to time. I put a plumbers valve at the end of that line and then drain it about once a month.
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St1g9203

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2013, 11:55:49 PM »
Are you still using the can?  I don't know of the 'fix' but I'm doing the same as you and still get the mayo. Especially at higher speeds. All I did has block off the timing case line at the case and used that line as a drain method to empty the can from time to time. I put a plumbers valve at the end of that line and then drain it about once a month.

Yes. i am still using the can. The only change that i had done appart from the above was to remove the redundant PAV breather line from airfilter box. Now i think thats what causing this. As with high speed run, the carb causes a low pressure in the airfilter and oil gets sucked in. I just removed the hose connecting the catch can and airfilter. (it was full of mayo). I am gonna ride to work now, and will report back in the evening.

cheers,.
Adi
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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #99 on: November 14, 2013, 08:40:37 AM »
Are you still using the can?  I don't know of the 'fix' but I'm doing the same as you and still get the mayo. Especially at higher speeds. All I did has block off the timing case line at the case and used that line as a drain method to empty the can from time to time. I put a plumbers valve at the end of that line and then drain it about once a month.

Dan, its been 3 weeks since i removed the the pipe that goes from catch can to the airfilter and routed it to the chain. The temperature is hovering around 65 to 70 here, and voila.. no Mayo in the airfilter for me.
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tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #100 on: November 14, 2013, 09:58:12 AM »
I put a plumbers valve at the end of that line and then drain it about once a month.

           Shouldn't that hose be open to the air & what's a "plumber's valve" ?
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DanB

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2013, 11:25:24 AM »
Quote
Shouldn't that hose be open to the air & what's a "plumber's valve" ?

Hi 2CV, what i call a plumbers valve is actually an instrumentation needle valve that I picked up at True Value for a 1 or 2.  Looks a little like this, but it's inline: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/01601756?fromRR=Y

The are 3 hoses at the bottom of the can and 1 at the top. The top goes to open air (out the back or via the air box, which is stock).  Out of the bottom: 1 goes to the crank, which is the largest; 2nd goes to the primary; 3rd is the return line back to the timing case.  Its this last line I put the valve on and use it as a drain.  I plugged the timing case port.  I dont have a pic of it, but I can do if you'd like, later when Im off work. 
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2013, 01:07:28 PM »
Hi 2CV, what i call a plumbers valve is actually an instrumentation needle valve that I picked up at True Value for a 1 or 2.  Looks a little like this, but it's inline: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/01601756?fromRR=Y

The are 3 hoses at the bottom of the can and 1 at the top. The top goes to open air (out the back or via the air box, which is stock).  Out of the bottom: 1 goes to the crank, which is the largest; 2nd goes to the primary; 3rd is the return line back to the timing case.  Its this last line I put the valve on and use it as a drain.  I plugged the timing case port.  I dont have a pic of it, but I can do if you'd like, later when Im off work.

             I unnerstand now. No picture necessary. I've done similar with mine except can is gone, CC breather hose with duck bill goes under the bike, timing case closed off. Nothing to speak of ever comes out of the duckbill. I proved this by having it exit into the right hand case for quite a few miles. My battery is in there now so the vent just goes under the bike with a big loop.
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