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Author Topic: Remove catch-can form an Electra  (Read 5273 times)

Buckeroo

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2013, 11:04:19 PM »
All good advice.  I love it!
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2013, 12:18:42 AM »
Cool.  Yeah I may try it tomorrow then.  I'm planning to ride thursday so we'll test it out then.  If I can't stop the oil spray then I'll probably be back to the stock catch can (or slight modification of said system).

REpozer

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2013, 12:48:06 AM »
I got rid of the catch can after ruining the paper air filter with oil up-chuck.
Installed the duck bill from the old can at the end of my new crank case hose.
I keep the oil level to half mark on the stick, and have very little oil drips from the hose ,.if any.
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
REA # 84 ( the first time)

D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2013, 03:09:04 AM »
I just make sure my engine is at TDC after each ride and I haven't had an issue with the stock breather set-up or wet sumping since I first bought the bike and blew all the hoses clear with my compressor. I see no need for any modifications to the system, at least on the stock bike.
His problem isn't wet sumping.
Oh yeah, like REpozer said, don't try to keep it higher than half full on the dipstick.  It just spits the oil out.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:20:21 AM by D the D »
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2013, 04:16:47 AM »
Pictures:

First:  The hose rising up from the oil tank vent nipple to the frame with the Krankvent in the line.  You can follow the hose as it bends above the Krankvent and runs back under the frame.
Second:  The Timing cover vent nipple with a vacuum cap and hose clamp.

'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

D the D

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2013, 04:22:56 AM »
If you like cleaning this glop out on a regular basis, keep the oil can:
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2013, 04:24:06 AM »
REpozer, how long is your CC hose and where do you run it to?

I just got back inside from messing with it again... I'm now running the CC breather hose straight up to the carb, then back down right behind the crank case (by the rear wheel).  Oh yeah, I'm using the long hose from the PAV system in place of the stock breather tube (this one's longer).  I then reattached the tube to the stock catch can, replaced duckbill back inside, plugged the other 2 holes on the bottom, used some electrical tape to try and create a seal for the lid, and ran a hose out to the back of the bike (from the catch can blowoff hole with the elbow in it). 

The catch can is laying on its side now, hiding in that little nether region behind the crank case.  I also put a few shreds of rags in the can with the hope that it'll help prevent leaks once some oil gets in there.  Took it for a quick spin and I can feel puffs of engine breath coming out of the blowoff tube, so all seems fine for now.  I'll just have to pay attention to it in case the can gets saturated because A) it will probably leak, and all leaks will go directly on my rear tire tread.  and B) if the rags get saturated, and get shaken over the blowoff hole, i'll then be suffocating my engine (same as plugging it at the crank case itself).

Fingers crossed!

still looking for a simpler, more maintenance free cure...  (I don't want to continually have to empty this wretched thing)
chuck

REpozer

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2013, 05:55:51 AM »
Hey SuperChuck
I used fuel hose (doesn't matter) and made a run straight up from the CC breather hole. Then went over the frame and under the seat. Down to the middle of the lower drive chain. Clamped on the old duck bill at the end( use the duck bill from inside the catch can).
I did try the duck bill at the rear tail light/ license plate, but was too oily on the rear fender, so moved the end as close to the drive chain I could.
I completely removed the oil catch can (less junk under the seat.)
Ace has some old threads on this that were very helpful.

The PAV removal was good too. Less likely for a vacuum leak now.
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
REA # 84 ( the first time)

tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2013, 12:29:30 PM »

The catch can is laying on its side now, hiding in that little nether region behind the crank case.  I also put a few shreds of rags in the can with the hope that it'll help prevent leaks once some oil gets in there.  Took it for a quick spin and I can feel puffs of engine breath coming out of the blowoff tube, so all seems fine for now.  I'll just have to pay attention to it in case the can gets saturated because A) it will probably leak, and all leaks will go directly on my rear tire tread.  and B) if the rags get saturated, and get shaken over the blowoff hole, i'll then be suffocating my engine (same as plugging it at the crank case itself).

Fingers crossed!

still looking for a simpler, more maintenance free cure...  (I don't want to continually have to empty this wretched thing)
chuck

            What did you end up doing? What were you your outcomes?

             Is your right side case, where the stock air filter was, now empty?

             I ran my CC vent hose up & over & into the inside hole of that empty case over a year ago with a duck bill on the end. No more cans & hoses running all over the place & zero oil comes out of the duck bill, never a drip on my muffler. Zero problems since I did it. Timing case vent is plugged; it's unnecessary.
2008 RE AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2013, 03:38:01 PM »
Thanks guys, if this vertical standpipe seems to solve my oil issues I'll try the chain method again.  I like the looks of it, but I don't want oil on my tires.

tooseevee, I removed my side panels altogether for a 'naked bike' look.  My K&N air filter is a massive thing, a cylinder bigger than a beer can, so wouldn't fit with the right side panel toolbox anyway.  My 'rags' in the catch can are based on your 'old sock/underpants' idea to monitor and absorb oil blowoff. 

If all goes well on my test ride tonight I'll be commuting to work on it tomorrow.  That's over 100 miles round trip (!) with a portion of highway.  All-in-all it's a lot of high-rev riding so we'll put the new catch can location/setup to the test.  Bringing extra tubing in my backpack though in case I need to modify it mid-ride (kinda expecting to).

Chuck

tooseevee

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2013, 08:44:19 PM »
tooseevee, I removed my side panels altogether for a 'naked bike' look.  My K&N air filter is a massive thing, a cylinder bigger than a beer can, so wouldn't fit with the right side panel toolbox anyway.  My 'rags' in the catch can are based on your 'old sock/underpants' idea to monitor and absorb oil blowoff. 

Chuck

            No, no. I didn't mean you should put the K&N in the air filter case. I know your K&N is directly on the carb throat where it should be.

             All I meant to say is my right case is empty & that's where I terminated the end of the CC breather hose. Now I see you can't do that 'cause your case is gone.

              Mine has been working really well so far.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 08:49:02 PM by tooseevee »
2008 RE AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2013, 12:05:44 AM »
About to take it for a spin.  I'm hoping the direct vertical 'stand pipe' keeps the burps in the bike.  If so, I will soon transition to a more simplistic setup... maybe back to duckbill on the chain.


Bill Harris

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2013, 04:02:37 AM »
Just a note about catch-can or catch-bottle or none.

The catch-can on the AVL works to collect and recirculate engine oil and gasses It has two inlet and two outlets. The large inlet on the bottom of the can is the breather from the oil tank, it should have a duckbill on the inside of the can and the stock tubing will have a 90 degree bend at the oil tank.  The mid size oil return line on the bottom of the can returns any oil in the catch-can back to the engine through the back of the timing chest.  The tubing for this, has a 90 degree bend that goes to the back of the timing chest.  The small inlet on the bottom of the can is a breather from the primary case.  The outlet on the side of the catch-can, near the top, is a breather to return gasses to the engine through the air box, carburetor and into the combustion chamber to be reburned.

The catch-bottle is often used for road racing.  It will catch and hold oil from the breather and allow the engine gasses to release into the air without reburning them.  By using a catch-bottle no oil from the breather will deposit on the track.  At the end of the race the catch-bottle is emptied and oil is added to the engine to makeup for the lose.

Open breather, no catch-can or catch-bottle.  An open breather with or without a duckbill, on the AVL engine, I have found, will loose some oil, no matter how I routed the breather hose.  The oil tank needed to be topped up from time to time.  Also oil from the breather ended up on the ground.

I'm back to running the catch-can.  I'm using a pancake air filter so I just ran the breather hose that went to the air box down behind the gear box.  I also use F type ATF in the primary so I run the primary breather line to the back of the gear box too, just to keep engine oil out of my ATF in the primary.  The small inlet on the catch-can I use as a overflow drain and put a short tube on it to drain over the drive chain.  To date the catch-can has not filled to drain out this overflow.  I don't need to empty a catch-bottle and add oil back to the oil tank.  I don't loose oil out of the breather hose allover the ground, having to replenish oil to the tank every day.  I just ride my motorcycle and check my oil level after the last ride of the day.  I never need to add oil between oil changes.  One needs to route the breather hoses with no low places and no kinks and don't over fill the oil tank for the catch-can to work the way it should.  Check the oil level after the engine has run.  Shut the engine off, wait about a minute or so and then check the oil level.  This is what I found about the AVL engine and this subject.

Royal Enfield people are good people

Cheers,
Bill                                   
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 02:35:25 AM by Bill Harris »

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2013, 01:41:15 PM »
Thanks very much Bill-  After my 50 mile ride into work today there is oil all over the place again.  As I expected, the catch can on its side is anything but oil-tight.  I, too think I'm going to go back to the stock setup with the recirculation line into the timing case.  I'll keep the primary case line plugged since I've read that it does nothing anyway.  Air line will drain onto the chain (and any overflow gunk along with it), and hopefully this setup'll keep me from getting an oil bath every time I ride. 

I need to check out my cylinder again and see if I can do Ace's retroactive drilling and old-fashioned breather.  Seems rather invasive, but if it'll be a better engineered fix, that might be the way to go.  For now I'll settle with recirculating the oil into the timing case.

I'd like to do the krank vent, but I'm thinking that I have too much oil coming up out of my crankcase for even that to work... and I don't want to spend 100 bucks just to try it and fail.  For my commute, I have about 30 minutes of sustained 60 mph highway riding.  The only way around this is to go through a bunch of annoying small towns with traffic lights every block, and it'd take three times as long.

May try to rig the catch can back to its stock location over my lunch break if I can finagle it with the parts I have with me.

Thanks again!
Chuck

Superchuck

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Re: Remove catch-can form an Electra
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2013, 04:05:24 PM »
This is not exactly 'simplifying' things, but would this be a good idea? 

My thoughts with the PCV valve, barbed T connectors, and the screen are to allow venting of the gases, but the draining back of any fluids in the air blowoff into the timing case (merges with the standard timing case recirculation line).  Would oil flow through the PCV?  If this would work, the intention would be to avoid any and all fluid spray from the system, but this might not be necessary, or worth the trouble.

Chuck