Author Topic: Sprag Clutch Replacement C5 2010 (Read 2456 times)

Timinator · « **on:** January 27, 2012, 09:58:12 AM »

Hi all! Ends up my sprag clutch went on my C5 Classic 2010, so now I'm replacing it. Are there any videos to help with the process? I figured at least one person out there has had the same problem and had a camera in their hands! Or is there a step by step illustration for it? Cheers!

TWinOKC · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2012, 11:39:43 AM »

Are you sure? Warranty item? I thought mine had gone also, turns out the battery was dead. I would do lots of checking before tearing things apart. How many miles on your bike?

Good luck to you.

Timinator · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2012, 12:29:41 PM »

Quote from: TWinOKC on January 27, 2012, 11:39:43 AM

Are you sure? Warranty item? I thought mine had gone also, turns out the battery was dead. I would do lots of checking before tearing things apart. How many miles on your bike?

Good luck to you.

Thanks, the warranty is up (over the year), about 6k on it. No issues with the battery, I keep a tender on it and a volt monitor under my speedo.

I had a mechanic check it out and bought the parts, was just hoping to save some cash and perform the spragodectomy myself!

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2012, 12:38:43 PM »

I had mine done under warranty and I've seen the left side case open. Everything is right there. I can't imagine it's too bad. I can take a look in my factory manual tomorrow and see what the procedure is if you can wit a bit.

Scott

Timinator · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2012, 12:42:18 PM »

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 27, 2012, 12:38:43 PM

I had mine done under warranty and I've seen the left side case open. Everything is right there. I can't imagine it's too bad. I can take a look in my factory manual tomorrow and see what the procedure is if you can wit a bit.

Scott

Thanks, I'm in no particular rush, its the off season! I have the manual for it, just like more pictures, or moving ones. I find it easier to see the process rather than imagining it. I may just plunge into it and take pictures as I disassemble to make sure I can reassemble! A better idea would be to make a video that way if I screw up we can review the tape

WillW · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2012, 02:47:47 PM »

UK warranty is 2 years, second year is parts only. Isn't that so in the USA?

Arizoni · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2012, 09:50:29 PM »

Keven provides a full 2 year warranty covering both parts and labor for all of the newly sold Royal Enfields he imports to the USA.

Unfortunately, the warranty is not transferable to a second owner or for bikes that have had a side car mounted.

Timinator · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2012, 07:48:00 AM »

Quote from: Arizoni on January 27, 2012, 09:50:29 PM

Keven provides a full 2 year warranty covering both parts and labor for all of the newly sold Royal Enfields he imports to the USA.

Unfortunately, the warranty is not transferable to a second owner or for bikes that have had a side car mounted.

That would be both restrictions on my RE!

coinzy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2012, 05:16:08 PM »

Still give them a try as we were assured these sprag issues were a thing of the past on the new UCE.

JesterNT · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2012, 07:28:42 PM »

How did this ever turn out? Did you do it yourself? I think the Sprag Clutch on my 2009 C5 is going.

mustangdave · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2012, 08:17:08 PM »

Hi guys...you'll usually find me in the CLASSIC section...

...I grenaded my sprag clutch last fall...and couldn't even kick start the bike...being an 05 model it was WAY out of warrantee. I had to suck it up and take it to the closest RE shop (3hours away). Mike did the work...and also did some adjustments to ignition timing...I don't rely on the E-start anymore, I kick it over now.

Timinator · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2012, 08:33:52 AM »

Hi all just an update, I ended up replacing it myself. Actually wasn't that big of a job, just took some patience. I would have loved to have the clutch nut holder for it to keep the clutch from moving, but a thick rag and a strategically cut piece of wood works, just need to be very careful. It took me about an hour or so not knowing exactly what I'm doing. Ever since then, the bike goes first push on the ignition, no issues. The old sprag came out and looked fine until I separated it and about a half dozen teeth fell into my hand! So, I guess that was the problem

If you need any help with it let me know. Cheers!

WillW · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2012, 09:27:17 AM »

Good to know it's a DIY job if it comes to it. Can you tell us how much was the new sprag?

GreenMachine · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2012, 09:38:25 AM »

Timinator: Makes me happy to know that the job isn't that bad..I probably have to do mine too..I thought the newer bikes had tougher hardeded sprags in them? I've seen sprag type clutches/bearings on other things and wasn;t impressed then either..... Is your c5 striclty ES?

Timinator · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2012, 09:41:57 AM »

GreenMachine: Unfortunately my C5 is only ES, no kicking on her. Too bad because I probably would have left the sprag. I heard that the bikes made after mine already had the better sprag installed. Always the way!

GreenMachine · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2012, 09:57:31 AM »

okay and I have trouble keeping up on who has what c5 and year, yadda yadda..I have heard that some of the brothers have the latest and greatest that are impervious to the sprag snafu and even come with a kick start...Thanks for sharing your sorrow..cheers

JesterNT · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2012, 11:56:04 AM »

CMW sells the Sprag Clutch Assembly PN570153, it has more components than just the Sprag Clutch and goes for $339.95 as of this morning. I find some sites that sell just the sprag clutch PN 560011 for about half the price of the assembly. It says it fits all ES 500cc, can anyone confirm that 560011 with fit a UCE?

Timinator · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2012, 12:23:23 PM »

Sound about right, mine was in the $300 range. I don't know whether the other cheaper ones would work though.

Arizoni · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2012, 02:57:44 PM »

Because Royal Enfield redesigned the sprag clutch I would be leery of buying a new clutch from sources other than Royal Enfield or one of their dealers.

With my luck I would end up buying one of the old trouble prone clutches that had been superseded.

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2012, 03:06:50 PM »

The sprag itself is rides between the inner and outer gears. You get those two gears when you buy the whole unit from RE. If you just replace the sprag you may still have trouble because the surfaces it grabs on the inner and outer gears may not be smooth.

http://bradleyscycles.com/crank-case-lh-cover-side-3

You can see here one gear is 24, no numbers on the sprag or the other gear, just 25 for the whole shebang.

Scott

The Garbone · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2012, 06:47:02 PM »

Maybe this..

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=48&zenid=iusnc115jhsuro1hsjngi6e3g2

Oh wait... wrong part

TWinOKC · « **Reply #21 on:** April 30, 2012, 09:43:49 PM »

Quote from: JesterNT on April 26, 2012, 11:56:04 AM

CMW sells the Sprag Clutch Assembly PN570153, it has more components than just the Sprag Clutch and goes for $339.95 as of this morning. I find some sites that sell just the sprag clutch PN 560011 for about half the price of the assembly. It says it fits all ES 500cc, can anyone confirm that 560011 with fit a UCE?

I have seen those sights also. I wonder what the P/N for the sprag clutch is for the AVL and iron barrel? Hopefully one for the UCE is a little better?

JesterNT · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2012, 09:28:07 PM »

Yes I think my Sprag Clutch is gone.....

singhg5 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2012, 09:36:26 PM »

Quote from: JesterNT on May 10, 2012, 09:28:07 PM

Yes I think my Sprag Clutch is gone.....

What made you open your crankcase to see if it was broken ?

I wonder if your bike is covered under warranty or is it past the time ? Anyone with these older and weaker sparg clutch, if broken, should be given a free upgrade.

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2012, 09:45:24 PM »

That'll buff out.

JesterNT · « **Reply #25 on:** May 10, 2012, 09:50:36 PM »

My bike had been making alarming noises while starting. Then it would not crank over the engine any more. The starter would engage but no thump thump thump. I push stared the bike a couple times to make sure it still ran OK.
I called CMW and I'm a bit too far outside the 2 year to cover this (9 months). The parts guy was unavailable at the time. They couldn't tell for certain if I purchased a new sprag clutch assembly that it would be a newer stronger type or the legacy weak one.
I sourced just a sprag from a German manufacture, it hasn't arrived yet. I'm going to try replacing just the sprag before shelling out the $330 for PN570153.

singhg5 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 10, 2012, 09:57:43 PM »

Quote from: JesterNT on May 10, 2012, 09:50:36 PM

They couldn't tell for certain if I purchased a new sprag clutch assembly that would be a newer stronger type or the legacy weak one.

I sourced just a sprag from a German manufacture, it hasn't arrived yet. I'm going to try replacing just the sprag before shelling out the $330 for PN570153.

The weaker one was distinctly different from the stronger one (at least when they are intact).

Who is this German manufacturer and are you sure it will fit your bike ? You don't want to get something that does not fit right.

JesterNT · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2012, 10:06:28 PM »

The maker is Stieber Part DC 4127 (3C) I measured the pieces of the sprag as best I could. This part was cheep enough I was willing to gamble that it fits before I shell out for the exact same part that failed within 8k miles.

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2012, 11:58:30 PM »

Do as you will, but replacing just one part of the sprag is usually a bad idea. They typically don't last that well. A sprag failure in a UCE is not a common event. It is also one heck of a lot easier to replace, The newer the part and the more certain you are of its heritage the better, There are some BS sprags out there. I can't tell you how to tell other than to be careful of your source. The reasons for a sprag failure in a UCE bike it totally different than the failure in an iron barrel or an AVL.

JesterNT · « **Reply #29 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:28:22 AM »

The Stieber sprag fits, its exactly the same size. In fact it appears to be identical in every way, so I dont know if it's any stronger than OEM. My sprag must have been slipping for a lot longer than I noticed because I'm surprised how fast my C5 stars now. I'll have to see how long it lasts.

singhg5 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 15, 2012, 01:00:30 AM »

Quote from: JesterNT on May 14, 2012, 08:28:22 AM

The Stieber sprag fits, its exactly the same size. In fact it appears to be identical in every way, so I dont know if it's any stronger than OEM. My sprag must have been slipping for a lot longer than I noticed because I'm surprised how fast my C5 stars now. I'll have to see how long it lasts.

Good to know that it your Stieber sprag fits perfectly and the bike is running well.

Any pictures of the new one ? Where did you buy it from ?

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #31 on:** May 15, 2012, 07:10:18 AM »

How much did the new sprag cost?

Scott

JesterNT · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:44:29 AM »

I did not take any photos

I thought of that after I had the engine cover back on already. It looked exactly like the original PN 560011in every way, aside from the fact it wasn't shredded into tiny bits on my workbench.

It cost $71 searched for a local dealer on the US importers site http://www.formsprag.com/distributorframe.htm There were two local dealers in the Oklahoma City area, nether had it in stock. FLECK BEARING CO quoted me $71 the other company was at $83. Fleck drop shipped it to me from their supplier for $7 + tax worked out to $82.97. Now that I think of it, thats probably why the first company quoted me $83?

?

Any way I put about 80 miles in the new sparg with no issues yet.

jartist · « **Reply #33 on:** May 22, 2012, 01:21:28 PM »

How much do you suppose the sprag weighed?

JesterNT · « **Reply #34 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:27:46 PM »

3 or 4 oz

iron.head · « **Reply #35 on:** May 23, 2012, 09:07:33 AM »

Old Classic 500 sprag which failed on many bikes-

New C5 sprag which has not been reported to have failed on any bikes in India yet-

jartist · « **Reply #36 on:** May 23, 2012, 10:57:16 AM »

Wow! That really does look like a robust sprag!

Arizoni · « **Reply #37 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:20:06 PM »

Thanks for the great pictures iron.head
They bring up the question for JesterNT, does your new clutch look like the upper (old) clutch or the lower (new) clutch?

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #38 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:35:50 PM »

I like that the new clutch has that spring band going down the middle of the sprags. That tends to keep them tucked out of harm's way unless there's enough centrifugal force to engage them. It also has they wavy wire cage to keep them located, more flexible than the solid sheet steel style cage that can shatter when the engine kicks back.

Scott

singhg5 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:35:57 PM »

The sprag clutch that Jester got from Stieber looks like the older clutch (upper one), as if they supplied to RE ! -

http://www.stieber.de/pdf/stieber/DC-product-en.pdf

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #40 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:58:06 PM »

Hmmm, wonder if there are different styles available in the same size/spec?

Scott

singhg5 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:33:27 PM »

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on May 23, 2012, 06:35:50 PM

I like that the new clutch has that spring band going down the middle of the sprags. That tends to keep them tucked out of harm's way unless there's enough centrifugal force to engage them. It also has they wavy wire cage to keep them located, more flexible than the solid sheet steel style cage that can shatter when the engine kicks back.
Scott

Scott - Did you write this article on sprag on Ducati website ?

http://www.mad-ducati.com/Technical/StarterSpragClutch/SpragClutch.html

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #42 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:49:03 PM »

No, but I read it recently. Good info.

The Ducati failures (like BMW) seem to be related to the sprag not engaging. With RE it's the danger of kickback. This is more prevalent on the pre-UCE bikes but mine failed after charging system problems drained my batteries giving weak starts with several kickbacks. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Scott

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #43 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:35:59 PM »

Yes and no. On Iron-Barrels and AVL's kick back can be a big deal. On the UCE it is more an issue of not engaging. Because of the EFI they rarely if ever kick back. Even if one does the design of the sprag mechanism (meaning not only the sprag but the associated gears) are different.

Ducati Scotty · « **Reply #44 on:** May 23, 2012, 09:57:36 PM »

Thanks for the clarification Kevin.

Scott

TWinOKC · « **Reply #45 on:** November 16, 2012, 07:51:38 PM »

I wanted to revive this old thread hoping to drawn in someone with updated information??

JesterNt???

fritz1914 · « **Reply #46 on:** November 20, 2012, 02:03:20 PM »

hi folks,just saw this post.the" spragodeptomey" is a pretty simple matter.if doing it for the first time you will need to order part# dc-4127[3c] from stieber sprag. i ordered mine from allied bearing supply in ft smith ar. or fleck bearing will have them allso allthough fleck in ft smith didnt seam to know how to read mics...anyway that is the correct part # to replace the bearing only.if after several thousands miles you need to replace it again,then you will need to purchase the kit from your dealer and replace the gears as well.bearing cost was about 80 dallors,the whole kit is about 400 i think. do not wast your time and money trying to purchase one from india.it taks forever for them to respond to you and then after several emails they still sent me the wrong part cost about 100 dallors,time and money wasted. i sugest that you purchase the clutch center nut #st-25591-4 from your dealer as well this keeps the gears from movung as its replaced. just a tip as far as other things ive noticed about this bike its seems to like cheep things such as cheep gas no achachol cheep plugs i use autolite 63 and cheep airfilter, i use napa #2362 the plugs are like 2.50 ea and the filters 5.55 just good stuff to know if you get stranded somewhere or your cheep like me...stay safe

TWinOKC · « **Reply #47 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:02:14 PM »

Hi fritz,

thanks for the info. My starter is still working fine but from reading here it seems to be a weak spot on these bikes. Glad to know the sprag replacement is a diy job and not going to break the bank.

cheers,

Terry

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Author Topic: Sprag Clutch Replacement C5 2010 (Read 2456 times)