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Author Topic: Doh! While changing the oil...  (Read 7100 times)

rpnix

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Doh! While changing the oil...
« on: July 25, 2007, 07:37:36 AM »
I changed the oil, and managed to put back in too much. Not by a lot, but enough to be obvious on the stick. It took way less than what the specifications say, but then I didn't change out the filter.

How much trouble am I in, and if it's a huge issue, then what is the proper method to remove some? I don't want to drop the plug and start over....
Bob Nix -- '06 Ural Tourist, '07 Royal Enfield Electra  <-- Click on the bike to see photos!

deejay

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2007, 08:48:30 AM »
run the bike before you decide that you put in too much. a lot of the oil you add needs to be distributed in the engine before you can get a proper read on the stick.

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2007, 11:26:27 AM »
You can use a baster with a hose attached or a suction pump, designed to pump oil ,to remove the extra oil. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

Both the Electra and Classic are sensitive to over filling. I found that from the low to high mark on the stick is about 1/2 quart. Over filling will have the crankcase pressure push the excessive oil out the breather and into the catch can mounted under the seat.

This can also be a problem running at high speeds. With my Electra the oil was being pulled out of the catch can and into the airbox by the vacuum created by the PAV unit. Not only was this happening,on the intake stroke, but also on the exhaust stroke. It then pooled in the bottom of the airbox and soaked the filter.

The engine also appeared to develop an oil leak on the left side of the cylinder head that I couldn't find. What I did find is that the PAV unit was pulling the oil out of the airbox and leaking the oil onto the engine from the junction at the cylinder head, when operating at high rpm's.

Easy solution disconnect the hose that runs from the PAV unit to the airbox. This is the larger of the two rubber hoses on the PAV unit.

Or you can remove the PVA system and plug the port in both the cylinder head and the exhaust manifold. But now that would be against the law wouldn't it,

RagMan

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 10:35:22 PM »
I have always been told that to add more oil than indicated can do serious damage. For the cost of more oil, is it worth risking it?  I personally would dump the oil, and start again.  The bike is worth far more than the cost of two oil changes.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

justin_o_guy

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 07:12:22 PM »
I have done that often enough that I keep a rubber hose around & jst stick it in the crank case , poke my thinb over the end & lift out what little it holds. Yea, thats slow going, but it gets it done, the baster is a better idea. I cant see wasting the oil in the engine just because you got too much. If its only barely overfull, then see how much the filter will take? If its wildly overfull, pull it down with something spotless & stick it in the oil bottle for next time. Why waste it?

rpnix

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 08:17:02 PM »
Update: After running it a bit, the oil level was at just the bottom tip of the stick, so worried for nothing. I've added some more, and taken a short ride. Once it's cool (like tomorrow morning) I'll check it again, and possibly uncork another bottle of oil.

I did buy a long-neck funnel, which is a necessity with both bikes, and probably any other as well.
Bob Nix -- '06 Ural Tourist, '07 Royal Enfield Electra  <-- Click on the bike to see photos!

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 10:14:24 AM »
Check the oil when it is good and hot. Oil will expand while hot! If you fill it to the top of the mark on the dipstick it will be overfilled once the engine is warm.
If I overfill after an oil change and need to remove some, I put it back in the bottle.
The baster method besides being less work is far less of a mess. I've done both!

Thumper

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 11:25:20 AM »
Checking the oil level on the Electra X is a bit different then on the Classics. It seems to drain a bit quicker then those models. On both models however, you are to screw in the dipstick fully in order to check the level  (or make a mental adjustment for the delta if you don't want to screw it in).

The engine should be thoroughly warm before you check it.
Wait at least 30 full seconds before checking it and less than 2 full minutes.
Oil level should be between 1/2 and 3/4.

Below 1/2 add more
Over 3/4 and you might blow oil under high RPMs (I have no experience with this, but the seasoned vets seem to agree on it).

If you run your Electra X  hard in the heat of the summer (where you know the oil has the consistency of water) try this: Shut the bike off and pop it onto the center stand. With two rags, unscrew the dipstick with one and wipe it off with the other one. Check the oil. Wait 30 seconds and do it again. Then again. Each time you will likely see the oil level go down. That's how fast it drains. All the more reason to know which circumstances are the best for checking it.

Matt

justin_o_guy

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2007, 07:04:08 AM »
since I have no experience with a dry sump I am baffled by this. I dont own one yet, tho it is my intention. If you dont mind, would you elaborate a bit?

Thumper

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2007, 09:22:59 AM »
since I have no experience with a dry sump I am baffled by this. I dont own one yet, tho it is my intention. If you dont mind, would you elaborate a bit?

jog,
From Pete Snidal's manual:
It is referred to as 'wet-sumping' when the oil has leaked from the oil reservoir into the sump, or bottom of the engine crankcase. The Bullet has a dry sump lubrication system, which means that a second oil pump, called the scavenge pump, is used to move the oil which has been through the engine parts, from the sump back to the oil tank during operation. In some conditions, since the level in the separate but integrally-cast oil tank is higher than the sump, oil may have migrated into the sump. For this reason, there is a separate sump drain at the bottom of the crankcase unit - the forward one; the rearward one is the drain for the tank itself.

He follows this information with a very detailed description of how this most-often occurs.

In my little world, I simply acknowledge that the oil pool in which the bottom of the dipstick rests, leaks out (and down) to give you a false reading. The salient point being that sometimes this can happen very quickly.

Matt

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2007, 04:49:31 PM »
There is also a very easy way to stop the oil from draining down when the bike sets over night so you don't have to drain the excess from the bottom of the motor. If you engage your compression release after shutting down the bike and kick it slowly over until you hear the"huff" out the exhaust, you are on exhaust, that puts the big end of the crank at it's top position and gravity will not be able to push the oil into the bottom of the motor. It is an old Triumph trick I learned years ago and works great on the RE. After you do it a few times it becomes a habit. No more smoking when you fire the bike up after setting over night, and no pesky drain pans except for the normal oil change. Works great!!  Another benifit is that if you kickstart your bike, you are in the perfect position for the long stroke down of the piston and back up for compression. By the time the valves close for compression you have everything moving fast from the kick at it 's easiest point from exhuast open position . It kicks over like a 50cc when it is on exhaust.  Hutch
« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 04:58:58 PM by hutch »
You learn from your mistakes, and I have LEARNED a lot.

Thumper

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2007, 06:14:37 PM »
There is also a very easy way to stop the oil from draining down when the bike sets over night so you don't have to drain the excess from the bottom of the motor. If you engage your compression release after shutting down the bike and kick it slowly over until you hear the"huff" out the exhaust, you are on exhaust, that puts the big end of the crank at it's top position and gravity will not be able to push the oil into the bottom of the motor. It is an old Triumph trick I learned years ago and works great on the RE. After you do it a few times it becomes a habit. No more smoking when you fire the bike up after setting over night, and no pesky drain pans except for the normal oil change. Works great!!  Another benifit is that if you kickstart your bike, you are in the perfect position for the long stroke down of the piston and back up for compression. By the time the valves close for compression you have everything moving fast from the kick at it 's easiest point from exhuast open position . It kicks over like a 50cc when it is on exhaust.  Hutch

That's the more detailed description that Pete gives - but in terms that even I can understand!

Thanks,
Matt

RagMan

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2007, 07:23:02 PM »
I will start using that tip, right now.. Thank you for posting it.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

luoma

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2007, 05:25:08 PM »
I have had a hard time checking my oil since I got the bike. With clean oil, it can be hard to see a distinct lne on the stick. Also, when checking it hot after 30 seconds or so, I have a thin film of oil all over the stick, even after I wipe it. I thought I was just overfilling it, so I drained the oil by removing all three plugs, let it drip for awhile, then refilled it with just a little less than the 2.4 qt recommended (about 2.2 qt). It still looks to be too full.

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2007, 11:42:03 AM »
I have had a hard time checking my oil since I got the bike. With clean oil, it can be hard to see a distinct lne on the stick. Also, when checking it hot after 30 seconds or so, I have a thin film of oil all over the stick, even after I wipe it. I thought I was just overfilling it, so I drained the oil by removing all three plugs, let it drip for awhile, then refilled it with just a little less than the 2.4 qt recommended (about 2.2 qt). It still looks to be too full.

I have found that the recommended amount is still to much oil. Approach that amount with caution so you don't over fill. To move the oil level from the low to the high mark on the dipstick takes about 1/2 quart. Over filling will cause other problems.

When checking the oil level the bike needs to be on the center stand and the engine oil needs to be hot. Also the bike needs to sit for at least five minutes after running so the oil has the chance to settle to the correct point before it is checked.