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Author Topic: Doh! While changing the oil...  (Read 7091 times)

rpnix

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Doh! While changing the oil...
« on: July 25, 2007, 07:37:36 AM »
I changed the oil, and managed to put back in too much. Not by a lot, but enough to be obvious on the stick. It took way less than what the specifications say, but then I didn't change out the filter.

How much trouble am I in, and if it's a huge issue, then what is the proper method to remove some? I don't want to drop the plug and start over....
Bob Nix -- '06 Ural Tourist, '07 Royal Enfield Electra  <-- Click on the bike to see photos!

deejay

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2007, 08:48:30 AM »
run the bike before you decide that you put in too much. a lot of the oil you add needs to be distributed in the engine before you can get a proper read on the stick.

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2007, 11:26:27 AM »
You can use a baster with a hose attached or a suction pump, designed to pump oil ,to remove the extra oil. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

Both the Electra and Classic are sensitive to over filling. I found that from the low to high mark on the stick is about 1/2 quart. Over filling will have the crankcase pressure push the excessive oil out the breather and into the catch can mounted under the seat.

This can also be a problem running at high speeds. With my Electra the oil was being pulled out of the catch can and into the airbox by the vacuum created by the PAV unit. Not only was this happening,on the intake stroke, but also on the exhaust stroke. It then pooled in the bottom of the airbox and soaked the filter.

The engine also appeared to develop an oil leak on the left side of the cylinder head that I couldn't find. What I did find is that the PAV unit was pulling the oil out of the airbox and leaking the oil onto the engine from the junction at the cylinder head, when operating at high rpm's.

Easy solution disconnect the hose that runs from the PAV unit to the airbox. This is the larger of the two rubber hoses on the PAV unit.

Or you can remove the PVA system and plug the port in both the cylinder head and the exhaust manifold. But now that would be against the law wouldn't it,

RagMan

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 10:35:22 PM »
I have always been told that to add more oil than indicated can do serious damage. For the cost of more oil, is it worth risking it?  I personally would dump the oil, and start again.  The bike is worth far more than the cost of two oil changes.
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justin_o_guy

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 07:12:22 PM »
I have done that often enough that I keep a rubber hose around & jst stick it in the crank case , poke my thinb over the end & lift out what little it holds. Yea, thats slow going, but it gets it done, the baster is a better idea. I cant see wasting the oil in the engine just because you got too much. If its only barely overfull, then see how much the filter will take? If its wildly overfull, pull it down with something spotless & stick it in the oil bottle for next time. Why waste it?

rpnix

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 08:17:02 PM »
Update: After running it a bit, the oil level was at just the bottom tip of the stick, so worried for nothing. I've added some more, and taken a short ride. Once it's cool (like tomorrow morning) I'll check it again, and possibly uncork another bottle of oil.

I did buy a long-neck funnel, which is a necessity with both bikes, and probably any other as well.
Bob Nix -- '06 Ural Tourist, '07 Royal Enfield Electra  <-- Click on the bike to see photos!

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 10:14:24 AM »
Check the oil when it is good and hot. Oil will expand while hot! If you fill it to the top of the mark on the dipstick it will be overfilled once the engine is warm.
If I overfill after an oil change and need to remove some, I put it back in the bottle.
The baster method besides being less work is far less of a mess. I've done both!

Thumper

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 11:25:20 AM »
Checking the oil level on the Electra X is a bit different then on the Classics. It seems to drain a bit quicker then those models. On both models however, you are to screw in the dipstick fully in order to check the level  (or make a mental adjustment for the delta if you don't want to screw it in).

The engine should be thoroughly warm before you check it.
Wait at least 30 full seconds before checking it and less than 2 full minutes.
Oil level should be between 1/2 and 3/4.

Below 1/2 add more
Over 3/4 and you might blow oil under high RPMs (I have no experience with this, but the seasoned vets seem to agree on it).

If you run your Electra X  hard in the heat of the summer (where you know the oil has the consistency of water) try this: Shut the bike off and pop it onto the center stand. With two rags, unscrew the dipstick with one and wipe it off with the other one. Check the oil. Wait 30 seconds and do it again. Then again. Each time you will likely see the oil level go down. That's how fast it drains. All the more reason to know which circumstances are the best for checking it.

Matt

justin_o_guy

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2007, 07:04:08 AM »
since I have no experience with a dry sump I am baffled by this. I dont own one yet, tho it is my intention. If you dont mind, would you elaborate a bit?

Thumper

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2007, 09:22:59 AM »
since I have no experience with a dry sump I am baffled by this. I dont own one yet, tho it is my intention. If you dont mind, would you elaborate a bit?

jog,
From Pete Snidal's manual:
It is referred to as 'wet-sumping' when the oil has leaked from the oil reservoir into the sump, or bottom of the engine crankcase. The Bullet has a dry sump lubrication system, which means that a second oil pump, called the scavenge pump, is used to move the oil which has been through the engine parts, from the sump back to the oil tank during operation. In some conditions, since the level in the separate but integrally-cast oil tank is higher than the sump, oil may have migrated into the sump. For this reason, there is a separate sump drain at the bottom of the crankcase unit - the forward one; the rearward one is the drain for the tank itself.

He follows this information with a very detailed description of how this most-often occurs.

In my little world, I simply acknowledge that the oil pool in which the bottom of the dipstick rests, leaks out (and down) to give you a false reading. The salient point being that sometimes this can happen very quickly.

Matt

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2007, 04:49:31 PM »
There is also a very easy way to stop the oil from draining down when the bike sets over night so you don't have to drain the excess from the bottom of the motor. If you engage your compression release after shutting down the bike and kick it slowly over until you hear the"huff" out the exhaust, you are on exhaust, that puts the big end of the crank at it's top position and gravity will not be able to push the oil into the bottom of the motor. It is an old Triumph trick I learned years ago and works great on the RE. After you do it a few times it becomes a habit. No more smoking when you fire the bike up after setting over night, and no pesky drain pans except for the normal oil change. Works great!!  Another benifit is that if you kickstart your bike, you are in the perfect position for the long stroke down of the piston and back up for compression. By the time the valves close for compression you have everything moving fast from the kick at it 's easiest point from exhuast open position . It kicks over like a 50cc when it is on exhaust.  Hutch
« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 04:58:58 PM by hutch »
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Thumper

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2007, 06:14:37 PM »
There is also a very easy way to stop the oil from draining down when the bike sets over night so you don't have to drain the excess from the bottom of the motor. If you engage your compression release after shutting down the bike and kick it slowly over until you hear the"huff" out the exhaust, you are on exhaust, that puts the big end of the crank at it's top position and gravity will not be able to push the oil into the bottom of the motor. It is an old Triumph trick I learned years ago and works great on the RE. After you do it a few times it becomes a habit. No more smoking when you fire the bike up after setting over night, and no pesky drain pans except for the normal oil change. Works great!!  Another benifit is that if you kickstart your bike, you are in the perfect position for the long stroke down of the piston and back up for compression. By the time the valves close for compression you have everything moving fast from the kick at it 's easiest point from exhuast open position . It kicks over like a 50cc when it is on exhaust.  Hutch

That's the more detailed description that Pete gives - but in terms that even I can understand!

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2007, 07:23:02 PM »
I will start using that tip, right now.. Thank you for posting it.
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luoma

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2007, 05:25:08 PM »
I have had a hard time checking my oil since I got the bike. With clean oil, it can be hard to see a distinct lne on the stick. Also, when checking it hot after 30 seconds or so, I have a thin film of oil all over the stick, even after I wipe it. I thought I was just overfilling it, so I drained the oil by removing all three plugs, let it drip for awhile, then refilled it with just a little less than the 2.4 qt recommended (about 2.2 qt). It still looks to be too full.

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2007, 11:42:03 AM »
I have had a hard time checking my oil since I got the bike. With clean oil, it can be hard to see a distinct lne on the stick. Also, when checking it hot after 30 seconds or so, I have a thin film of oil all over the stick, even after I wipe it. I thought I was just overfilling it, so I drained the oil by removing all three plugs, let it drip for awhile, then refilled it with just a little less than the 2.4 qt recommended (about 2.2 qt). It still looks to be too full.

I have found that the recommended amount is still to much oil. Approach that amount with caution so you don't over fill. To move the oil level from the low to the high mark on the dipstick takes about 1/2 quart. Over filling will cause other problems.

When checking the oil level the bike needs to be on the center stand and the engine oil needs to be hot. Also the bike needs to sit for at least five minutes after running so the oil has the chance to settle to the correct point before it is checked.

luoma

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2007, 08:42:01 PM »
Thanks for the tip. I'll start with 2 qt from now on. Because it uses an oil tank, it's probably safer to run a bit low than a bit high.

gapl53

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 10:38:05 AM »
Just for information. I've been checking my oil when cold after standing overnight. The level on the dipstick is 1/4 of the way between the low and high mark. When hot and after leaving it drain back to the tank it comes to just under the full mark. My engine must like it there because the levels have not changed during the 620 miles, mostly at 60mph and above, that I traveled the past 5 days.

luoma

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2007, 06:12:27 PM »
Thanks. I've recently heard that 2 qt is more acurate than the 2.4 (converted from metric) recommended. I have to be more careful now that i've begun using synthetic ($$$).

indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2007, 05:27:51 AM »
I assume that when you refer to half, 3/4th or whatever else, that is with reference to the hatch marks on the stick that indicate the range between H and L, and not the entire length of the stick itself?
As I have posted somewhere else, among other things, I need to get myself a baster!
Also, how many oil drain bolts are there?
Can someone help with information about where I can obtain a service manual for the Electra X? It will probably be easier for me to get it from the US, the DIY culture does not prevail quite as much here in India!
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Leonard

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2007, 07:46:44 AM »
Also, how many oil drain bolts are there?
Can someone help with information about where I can obtain a service manual for the Electra X? It will probably be easier for me to get it from the US, the DIY culture does not prevail quite as much here in India!

 You should be able to find a service manual here:  Online Store
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indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2007, 08:08:59 AM »
Thanks, I should have checked first! Question to anyone who has used the Electra Service Manual, listed in the store for USD 29, have you found it to be of use in all the little and not so little things that one does with the bike in addition to riding it?
Question for CMW, would this be the manual that I would be able to use for what is designated as the 500 Machismo in India - from what I can see, other than the tank graphics/treatment and front mudguard and a few other small details, this seems to be identical to the AVL engined Electra X in the US. And as Amazon is able to, do you ship the manual to India, if I buy it on line?
If I could obtain it from RE India, it would be a lot cheaper, I know, but that's a big if we are talking about!
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Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2007, 12:49:38 PM »
Just an anecdote since I own the older iron engine.

* I always change the oil filter with every oil change.

* I never pay much attention to the capacities given in the manual.

* I put one quart into the oil tank - after filling the timing chest.  Check the level after spinning the engine with the spark plugged removed.  The oil level is hard to see with new oil but it can be done.  I then add oil at 1-1/2 ounces at a time till it reaches the half-way point on the dipstick range.  In sunlight or shop light the oil level can be made out by angling the stick to the light.

* I then start it up and let it run at idle for about 5 minutes.  Shut it off and recheck the oil level after a draindown period.

* The bike never has had a full two quarts of oil in it (pretty close though).

* I check the oil level cold every morning before riding - as long as it's at the 1/2 or a little below on the dipstick everything is fine.  Nothing more complicated then this.

* I had an oil blowout through the catch can when I first had the bike - I was keeping the oil level at the full mark.

Regards, Foggy
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indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2007, 01:56:37 PM »
The thing is that half on the dipstick in a cold engine, in my case is translating to an inch above the H mark in a hot engine,,,I am therefore guessing that around 1/4th is probably right when cold.
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indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 09:08:28 AM »
I have a peculiar problem with the bike - and I am very conscious of not overfilling.
In a hot engine, drained as suggested here, the level reads 3/4th, and that is fine. The problem is that when cold after being parked for day or two, the dipstick shows no oil on it.
So now I am at a loss to know how to check the oil level on a cold bike - I now need to start, let it drain, then check,,,a process that will take time. Also, what if it is showing no oil at cold because there is indeed no oil in the tank, and if I thought that it is not for that reason, and started the bike to do the hot engine check, the engine would have run for two minutes on no oil, a thing I do not want to think of!
Any fellow sufferers? Any advice?
Thx in advance!
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Kiwichick

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 01:17:49 PM »
Hi India48
As you know, we bought our Electras within days of each other.  Mine has been sitting in the garage for a week (sob) so I went and checked the oil - sure enough, as you say, level way way down. My oil level, as set by the dealer, is just at full when hot - and I can just see the oil on the bottom of the stick this morning - it is at the bottom mark (say 2-3mm).  So with your level reading 3/4 when full, stands to reason it disappears completely when cold.

Now because of my decomp lever/kickstarter problem, I haven't been kicking my bike through to TDC before parking it up.  Would wet-sumping drain that much oil?  Do you put her at TDC before you park it?

Biddy

indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 05:32:16 PM »
Yes, I have been putting it at TDC - in a parked bike for a couple of days,will that have the level on the dipstick fall or rise, as compared to not putting it at TDC? I am bit confused on that.
And, the advice I get is to not see oil up to the H mark on a hot/then drained for a few minutes engine, 3/4th is a better idea, since the bike is unhappy with the slightest extra oil. But then the cold engine is showing no oil on the stick,,,,
Am perplexed!
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indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 07:42:54 PM »
Conclusion I am also coming to by  a process of intuitive guessing is that the cold reading is not a reliable one - for the same amount of oil in the engine, it will give you different readings depending on how much oil is sitting in other parts of the engine than the oil tank. So there is no consistent relationship between a dipstick reading on the hot/drained engine and on a cold overnight parked read after two days one that one can assume to rely on getting this right by a cold reading. Which means that the only way to check it the level is when it is hot/drained. Which means that you have to hope that firing up the engine for two minutes to get the reading, will not mess up the engine even if there is no oil in it to go around.
Which then means that there needs to be a pretty good protocol for the heating/draining times so that one is reading at the right time.
So, questions as follows:
1. How long should the engine run when cold to get it to the hot stage - one minute? two? What is the minimum it should be run?
2. Assuming one is able to touch the dipstick after a run for an hour, can the oil level be checked directly after the run?
3. In the case of 1 above, what is the draining time one should give before checking the level? One minute? Two? Five? Is the draining period important to get the right message from the reading? Or leaving it loose, like, saying couple of minutes good enough? Or is it a gotta time by a stop watch subject to get it right. I am asking this because I remember reading that the draining process happens pretty rapidly in the initial few minutes.
4. And in the case of 2 above, it may take up to 5 minutes to get the dipstick out given the heat around, and in it. So what is the draining time range that is ok after a long run?
Sorry for sounding so fussy here, but I guess people here would understand, and help out if they have any ideas. The bike is fussy about the oil it needs to be just the right amount, and that quirk is another part of the charm for most people here, I am guessing.
Just back from a one hour spin on the roads early in the morning, and the bike ran flawlessly - up and down the gears - what joy!!
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indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2007, 04:33:59 PM »
Further observations - I ran the bike yesterday morning and last night I checked the cold level - just visible at the bottom of the stick. Before I went for the ride, I checked the oil hot/drained and it was at 3/4th on the stick after a 2 minute run/2 minute drain cycle, and I know that is the right level for the oil. And of course the bike ran flawlessly for 30 miles, at speeds up to 50 mph/80 kmph, where I run it at, at the 500mile/800km on the odo in my running in regime. It could also not have done that without the oil!
Checked just now again in the morning, cold, and no oil on the stick!
Left the piston at TDC when the bike stopped.
I know that the oil is somewhere in the bike, because the floor below is spotless.
So, where did the oil disappear to overnight, and why?!!
I remain perplexed, and all of the previous posts questions remain relevant!!
Any wisdom will be truly appreciated!!
The natural tendency is to add a little more oil just to be safe, but I know that the Bullet  does not like this and starts spraying it out like the VW in the love bug movies! Makes this a more interesting situation, hence the posts.
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Kiwichick

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2007, 09:10:39 PM »
Although it is hard to see how this happens, everything you say suggests wet sumping.  But Snidal says that wetsumping occurs when the bike has been left at or close to BDC, though, and you haven't been doing that.  This is detailed in Ch 3, about 1/3 of the way down the HTML page.

But I quote from the Snidal manual:

"If you experience a sudden decrease in tank oil level after having left the machine parked for a period of time, this [wetsumping] may be the situation. To check, clean the area around the FRONT drain plug under the engine unit, place a clean drip pan under it, and remove the plug. Once any oil has run out, replace the drain plug. Any oil which has drained may be poured back into the tank where it belongs, then check the oil level with the dipstick once again."

Why not try draining that front sump and see what quantity you get?  SImple enough, and it would potentiallly rule out wetsumping as an option.  But if you pour back in the drained oil, and it brings your level up to the 3/4 mark, voila!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 09:41:16 PM by Kiwichick »

indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2007, 09:11:34 PM »
I think that the bike is wet sumping even though I leave it at TDC. Here's why I think so - when I check the oil level the recommended way, it is at 3/4 mark, which is how it ought to be, I believe. After 24 hours, the level is at 1/4th. After 48 hours, I can just about see oil at the bottom of the stick. And at 72 hours, the dipstick comes out dry. The oil is not going out of the system, because when I fire up the bike, and check after a draining down period, its back to the 3/4th mark! So for sure the oil is not exiting the system, and also the evidence on the floor below where the bike is parked, confirms this.
The only problem I have with all of this is that when I ride the bike after a four day break, the only way I can be sure that there is oil in the bike is by going through the running the engine for a bit/letting it drain process, because checked cold, the dipstick will show zero oil.
Other than that, is there anything I should be concerned about? Even after four - five days of not using it, I am still able to start it with just the one kick, once the preliminaries are all done. And there is no smoke from the exhaust so no oil is getting past the rings/valves either.
Can I just ignore all of this as just a quirk? The engine is the AVL 500, btw.
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2007, 09:15:05 AM »
The factory instructions for checking the oil on the AVL engine suggest that you start the bike and run it for a minute or two before you check the oil level. The symptoms you point to are normal and not a problem. If your bike was smoking something terrible upon starting it would be an other matter. I think the oil must settle in the timing cover. These instructions were developed when the engine was new because people were overfilling it. The advice about wet-sumping and parking the engine at TDC is very dated and can be ignored. It only applied to the older motors and was a band-aid at best

indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2007, 07:15:19 PM »
Got it - appreciate the update! I will find a way to live with not being able to check the oil level at all on the dipstick on a cold start, if the bike has been standing for a few days. Thing to do is to check the level sometime after a ride, and as long as thats ok, and no oil is seen on the floor below the engine after that, ride away the next time without worrying about the oil.
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prof_stack

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2007, 09:36:24 PM »
It is not unique to RE that the oil level is not accurately checked while the engine is cold.  Same thing goes for my Buell XB9S and I've gotten in the good habit of checking it after returning from a ride. 

But regularly checking the tire pressure (when cold) is also a good habit to cultivate.

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2007, 08:15:02 AM »
The advice about wet-sumping and parking the engine at TDC is very dated and can be ignored. It only applied to the older motors and was a band-aid at best
That is very strange Kevin. Every time I forget to put my 05 Classic at top dead center when parking, the next day I can expect to get smoked out of my garage about 2 minutes after start up. Park at TDC, no problem.     Hutch
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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2007, 08:54:40 AM »
My wife's '88 Superglide will blow up to a quart out of the engine breather if you start it after it's been sitting for a month.  Have to put a drain pan under it first.
Andy Wiltshire
54 350 Bullet, 62 Jaguar MK II, 68 BSA Spitfire, 69 BSA Starfire
70 Bonneville, 71 Bonneville, 71 BSA B25T, 74 Jensen Healey
74 Honda XR75, 81 Yamaha MX80, 82 Suzuki GS1100G

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2007, 11:32:07 AM »
Oil leaks into the crankcase from several areas. The worm nut seal is the most common fault. It is a wear parts and needs to be replaced from time to time. The engine seal and bearing are another place that oil can seep into the crankcase. Overfilling the engine and a bad crankcase half gasket are the other two ways. Wet-sumping is not the natural condition of the engine. It points to something that is not right. On the other hand parking the bike with the piston at TDC does mitigate this some so it is often times used to help with this.

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2007, 02:25:51 PM »
Kevin,are the above mention problems normal for a bike with 3000 miles, like mine?It did it from the time it was new, and is now off warranty. BTW, the bike has never been overfilled. The Snidal maual says it is normal for an RE, at least that is the way I took it. It smokes like crazy everytime it is not parked at TDC.  After I mess up a couple of times I have to add oil(when warm) to bring it up to the middle of the dipstick, I never fill to top line. If I park at TDC, I don't smoke at start up and never need to add oil. BTW, mine is a Bullet Classic. with iron motor.  Additional note: My bike has been sitting for over a month(Michigan). I checked the oil cold, just on bottom of stick. I fired it up for 3 minutes and checked again. Oil was just about 3/4 to FULL line. NO SMOKING after start up. No loss of oil into crankcase. It was parked at TDC when last used, and I cycled it to TDC again after running. I'm good until spring.            Hutch
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 02:59:41 PM by hutch »
You learn from your mistakes, and I have LEARNED a lot.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2007, 05:51:18 PM »
There are some definitive tests that are outlined in the factory manual to find out what is going on. The Snidal manual is a good manual in the sense that it is written for someone who may be less experienced than the factory manual is. On the other hand it is full of Petes opinions and some of the information is dated. In general I agree with Pete on most things, but sometimes I disagree. If you were only to have one manual I still recommend his however so don't read too much into my comments.
  The wet sumping in the past was mostly caused by return pumps that weren't lapped into the timing cover very well. This caused a buildup of oil while the bike was running or allowed excess oil in the crankcase when it was shut down. Also the work nuts really are a wear item. You will also note that Pete recommends replacing the cork seal with one of the newer rubber ones. US never had the cork seals. (Forever RE used a cork to seal the end of the crankshaft.) When you part the bike with the piston at TDC, the passages in the tank are lined up in such a way as to minimize the amount of oil that can seep through.
  After the bike has been running for a while stop it and open up the crankcase drain. measure the amount of oil that comes out. It should be a tablespoon or less. If there is more it is showing you that your return pump is not removing oil from the crankcase effectively. This is very rare, especially since the return pump is twice the size of the pressure pump so that it can pump out more oil from the crankcase than the pressure pump can put there.
  After the oil is drained, leave the sump open and put a measuring device under the open sump. See how much oil is there after about 24 hours. Again it should not be more than about a tablespoon. (Be sure to use a measuring device, an ounce of oil on the floor can look like a quart). If there is excess oil in the crankcase after the bike has been sitting, it will push up past the piston rings and cause a great deal of smoke until the return pump can get ahead of it. Any oil that seeps into the crankcase overnight has to come from somewhere, The most likely suspect is a worn worm nut seal.

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2007, 06:16:53 PM »
Thanks Kevin, I will have to check that when it gets warm again. A looooooong time. I might have gotten a defective one from the start, since it smoked from day one if not parked at TDC.    Hutch
You learn from your mistakes, and I have LEARNED a lot.

DaveG297

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2008, 11:56:44 AM »
I never thought checking the oil was such a difficult thing.     The more I read the less I know about checking oil.   My 02 has smoked only once.  It cleared out the flies and mosquitoes so I didn't mind.   I just pull the dipstick and read it.   Did you ever wonder why some people are called Dipsticks...........Maybe its cause you can't read them......Hutch, its almost 50' today, in January........is looking better.....dg

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2008, 06:46:28 PM »
DG, 2 more days of good weather and back to normal. Hutch
You learn from your mistakes, and I have LEARNED a lot.

scoTTy

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2008, 08:48:58 PM »
well mine has never smoked __ o7 Electa X .. __I had BMW's that did though.. :P  U know the early flying bricks..  so I guess I'm good.. Don't really have that many miles on it though.. Got the battery box out right now.. grinding the rust off and repainting it..  suppose to be 74 tomorrow in western KY..  :o ???  and my bikes apart.. waiting for that delay switch for the electric start and researching the bunn breather and figure I need it..