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Author Topic: Doh! While changing the oil...  (Read 7427 times)

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2007, 03:15:05 PM »
The factory instructions for checking the oil on the AVL engine suggest that you start the bike and run it for a minute or two before you check the oil level. The symptoms you point to are normal and not a problem. If your bike was smoking something terrible upon starting it would be an other matter. I think the oil must settle in the timing cover. These instructions were developed when the engine was new because people were overfilling it. The advice about wet-sumping and parking the engine at TDC is very dated and can be ignored. It only applied to the older motors and was a band-aid at best

indian48

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2007, 01:15:19 AM »
Got it - appreciate the update! I will find a way to live with not being able to check the oil level at all on the dipstick on a cold start, if the bike has been standing for a few days. Thing to do is to check the level sometime after a ride, and as long as thats ok, and no oil is seen on the floor below the engine after that, ride away the next time without worrying about the oil.
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prof_stack

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2007, 03:36:24 AM »
It is not unique to RE that the oil level is not accurately checked while the engine is cold.  Same thing goes for my Buell XB9S and I've gotten in the good habit of checking it after returning from a ride. 

But regularly checking the tire pressure (when cold) is also a good habit to cultivate.

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2007, 02:15:02 PM »
The advice about wet-sumping and parking the engine at TDC is very dated and can be ignored. It only applied to the older motors and was a band-aid at best
That is very strange Kevin. Every time I forget to put my 05 Classic at top dead center when parking, the next day I can expect to get smoked out of my garage about 2 minutes after start up. Park at TDC, no problem.     Hutch
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SRL790

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2007, 02:54:40 PM »
My wife's '88 Superglide will blow up to a quart out of the engine breather if you start it after it's been sitting for a month.  Have to put a drain pan under it first.
Andy Wiltshire
54 350 Bullet, 62 Jaguar MK II, 68 BSA Spitfire, 69 BSA Starfire
70 Bonneville, 71 Bonneville, 71 BSA B25T, 74 Jensen Healey
74 Honda XR75, 81 Yamaha MX80, 82 Suzuki GS1100G

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2007, 05:32:07 PM »
Oil leaks into the crankcase from several areas. The worm nut seal is the most common fault. It is a wear parts and needs to be replaced from time to time. The engine seal and bearing are another place that oil can seep into the crankcase. Overfilling the engine and a bad crankcase half gasket are the other two ways. Wet-sumping is not the natural condition of the engine. It points to something that is not right. On the other hand parking the bike with the piston at TDC does mitigate this some so it is often times used to help with this.

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2007, 08:25:51 PM »
Kevin,are the above mention problems normal for a bike with 3000 miles, like mine?It did it from the time it was new, and is now off warranty. BTW, the bike has never been overfilled. The Snidal maual says it is normal for an RE, at least that is the way I took it. It smokes like crazy everytime it is not parked at TDC.  After I mess up a couple of times I have to add oil(when warm) to bring it up to the middle of the dipstick, I never fill to top line. If I park at TDC, I don't smoke at start up and never need to add oil. BTW, mine is a Bullet Classic. with iron motor.  Additional note: My bike has been sitting for over a month(Michigan). I checked the oil cold, just on bottom of stick. I fired it up for 3 minutes and checked again. Oil was just about 3/4 to FULL line. NO SMOKING after start up. No loss of oil into crankcase. It was parked at TDC when last used, and I cycled it to TDC again after running. I'm good until spring.            Hutch
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 08:59:41 PM by hutch »
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2007, 11:51:18 PM »
There are some definitive tests that are outlined in the factory manual to find out what is going on. The Snidal manual is a good manual in the sense that it is written for someone who may be less experienced than the factory manual is. On the other hand it is full of Petes opinions and some of the information is dated. In general I agree with Pete on most things, but sometimes I disagree. If you were only to have one manual I still recommend his however so don't read too much into my comments.
  The wet sumping in the past was mostly caused by return pumps that weren't lapped into the timing cover very well. This caused a buildup of oil while the bike was running or allowed excess oil in the crankcase when it was shut down. Also the work nuts really are a wear item. You will also note that Pete recommends replacing the cork seal with one of the newer rubber ones. US never had the cork seals. (Forever RE used a cork to seal the end of the crankshaft.) When you part the bike with the piston at TDC, the passages in the tank are lined up in such a way as to minimize the amount of oil that can seep through.
  After the bike has been running for a while stop it and open up the crankcase drain. measure the amount of oil that comes out. It should be a tablespoon or less. If there is more it is showing you that your return pump is not removing oil from the crankcase effectively. This is very rare, especially since the return pump is twice the size of the pressure pump so that it can pump out more oil from the crankcase than the pressure pump can put there.
  After the oil is drained, leave the sump open and put a measuring device under the open sump. See how much oil is there after about 24 hours. Again it should not be more than about a tablespoon. (Be sure to use a measuring device, an ounce of oil on the floor can look like a quart). If there is excess oil in the crankcase after the bike has been sitting, it will push up past the piston rings and cause a great deal of smoke until the return pump can get ahead of it. Any oil that seeps into the crankcase overnight has to come from somewhere, The most likely suspect is a worn worm nut seal.

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2007, 12:16:53 AM »
Thanks Kevin, I will have to check that when it gets warm again. A looooooong time. I might have gotten a defective one from the start, since it smoked from day one if not parked at TDC.    Hutch
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DaveG297

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2008, 05:56:44 PM »
I never thought checking the oil was such a difficult thing.     The more I read the less I know about checking oil.   My 02 has smoked only once.  It cleared out the flies and mosquitoes so I didn't mind.   I just pull the dipstick and read it.   Did you ever wonder why some people are called Dipsticks...........Maybe its cause you can't read them......Hutch, its almost 50' today, in January........is looking better.....dg

hutch

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2008, 12:46:28 AM »
DG, 2 more days of good weather and back to normal. Hutch
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scoTTy

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Re: Doh! While changing the oil...
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2008, 02:48:58 AM »
well mine has never smoked __ o7 Electa X .. __I had BMW's that did though.. :P  U know the early flying bricks..  so I guess I'm good.. Don't really have that many miles on it though.. Got the battery box out right now.. grinding the rust off and repainting it..  suppose to be 74 tomorrow in western KY..  :o ???  and my bikes apart.. waiting for that delay switch for the electric start and researching the bunn breather and figure I need it..