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Author Topic: Throttle on Elec Start  (Read 522 times)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 07:37:29 PM »
Someone told me once that it's best to hold the clutch in when starting, even if in neutral, in order to lighten the starter's load of anything turning past the clutch plates.  Overkill? Perhaps.  Anyway, when it's cool weather, or even when it's warm but I've not ridden the bike for a couple of days, "stiction" usually prevents my clutch plates from spinning freely, so that unless I free them up with the kick start lever in advance, the bike will lurch (or even stall, once) when I pull the clutch and drop it into first.  In that case, I doubt holding the clutch in helps at all...

Holding the clutch in while in neutral does stop the starter from having to spin the tranny shafts and other things which does lighten the load, same goes for cars and trucks.  Just as important, you never have your bike launch out from under you and fall in the street making you look like a dweeb because it wasn't in neutral ;)

John S

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 09:45:13 PM »
Nope I dont know my current speed. How can I figure that out?
John
Cedar Park, Texas
'14 C5

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 09:50:59 PM »
You'll need a tachometer.  Some multimeters have one built in or you can get one of the small stand alone units usually used on lawn equipment.  Or just take it to the shop and ask them to check it.  Make sure it's fully warmed up when you take the reading, go for a good long ride first.

http://www.amazon.com/Hardline-Products-HR-8061-2-Tachometer-2-Cylinder/dp/B000FOOAXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417470617&sr=8-1&keywords=tiny+tach

Scott

SteveThackery

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 10:11:46 PM »

I would also ask if you're running the stock Bosch plug.  If so you might want to switch to an NGK.  Many folks here find that it gives a more stable idle.  Not sure if it would help with starting too but it probably wouldn't hurt.


Very good point.  Changing from the original Bosch to the NGK BPR6ES made a ridiculous improvement to the tickover stability o mine.  I can't comment on the starting, because mine always starts OK anyway, but I would recommend changing to the NGK as a matter of course.
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'06 ElectraX (Good bike, had no trouble at all)
'02 500ES (Fully "Hitchcocked" - 535, cams, piston, etc - and still a piece of junk)

mattsz

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2014, 10:45:46 PM »
Nope I dont know my current speed. How can I figure that out?

I have the exact tach shown in Scott's link.  Its refresh rate is kind of slow, but it works well for idle speed adjustments.

Or, post a link to an audio or video recording of your bike idling, and I'll tell you:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,15424.msg166558.html#msg166558

...  ;)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2014, 11:12:05 PM »
Exactly, good for idle speed adjustments but not too much else on a bike.  Very easy to hook up though, and works with just about every engine in the world very easily.

Scott

John S

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2014, 04:17:23 PM »
Replaced with plug with the NGK, Presto.  Cold start, no throttle needed.  I maintained the plug gap recommended by RE - .70mm to .80mm. 
John
Cedar Park, Texas
'14 C5

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2014, 04:25:45 PM »
:)

John S

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2014, 09:27:40 PM »
Matt...got a m4a file and a mp4 file of the bike idling but it doesn't look like I can upload either of these file types.
John
Cedar Park, Texas
'14 C5

barenekd

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2014, 12:53:21 AM »
 I never used the bistarter - man, what a stupid name for a choke or throttle cracker. I always used the manual method, I'd crack the throttle sometimes. It never hurt anything. The times I did try the Bistarter, nothing happened.
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mattsz

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2014, 11:15:20 AM »
John S -

Glad you got your starting issue sorted with the new plug - that "mod" has helped a lot of people!


As for your idle... a wise man once told me,

GOOD GOD Mattz, turn your idle down !


In that old video I posted on that other thread, my bike was idling a bit faster than yours, but not much!  Your bike is idling at about 1680 rpms, too fast.  Two helpful posts from my old thread:

mattsz
It's idling too fast.

On top of the throttle body there is a large hole.  Down in this hole you will find a large brass screw with a straight screwdriver slot in it.  That is the idle bleed screw.

With the engine idling, turn this brass screw clockwise (in) and the idle will slow down to a more normal sounding speed.
Slowing the idle will also reduce the computer varying the speed making it much more consistent.

IMO, those really slow THUMP..THUMP..THUMP.. you hear on some videos are from the old carburetorated bikes and my fuel injected G5 doesn't like idling that slowly.

The recommended idle speed for the fuel injected bikes is 1050 rpm which is faster than the THUMP..THUMP  but much slower than your video shows your bikes speed.

And...

You can get the idle down when the engine is cold but its best to make the final adjustment when it's fully warmed up.  If you can't quite get to the screw loosen the intake manifold clamp so you can rotate the throttle body a bit.


It was at this point in the proceedings I bought one of those small digital tachs.  A word about this:  A few members here have dismissed the need for a tach on these bikes, saying if you know your bike you should never need one for shifting.  That's as may be, but for new guys like me (and possibly John S) who have no experience with these bikes, and who take delivery from a dealer with the idle speed incorrectly set, like me (and possibly John S), a tach is a very handy thing to have, for learning how to ride your bike, and especially, as already mentioned above, for maintenance and adjustments.

Anyway, fix that idle, and you'll be a happy camper!  Take it to your dealer, or follow the advice of Arizoni and Ducatti Scotty above - and as always, see if Singhg5 has a video that might help... of course he does!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w51XKoubABI&list=UUOh4rORdLrqjVZUsorI0hKA

In the second half of that short video, you can hear what a properly adjusted idling RE UCE should sound like.

FYI everyone: John S did email me an audio recording of his idling motor, and even though I could tell just by listening that it was too fast, to be exact, I used my soon-to-be patented After-The-Fact Tach.  Wait... can you patent an almost useless process?  I dropped his audio file into my computer audio editing program, zoomed in on one second (see attached), and then just counted the pulses: 14 pulses per second, or 840 pulses per minute, times two revolutions per thump = 1680 rpm.

Not exactly handy for on-the-fly adjustments, but occasionally it's handy...  ;)

tooseevee

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2014, 12:47:41 PM »
  Wait... can you patent an almost useless process?  I dropped his audio file into my computer audio editing program, zoomed in on one second (see attached), and then just counted the pulses: 14 pulses per second, or 840 pulses per minute, times two revolutions per thump = 1680 rpm.
Not exactly handy for on-the-fly adjustments, but occasionally it's handy...  ;)

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John S

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2014, 01:08:08 PM »
Thanks Matt for your time on this.  I'll get to work on dropping that idling speed.
John
Cedar Park, Texas
'14 C5

motorman2whel

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2014, 06:23:32 AM »
After careful examination of the patients "heartbeats" Dr. Mattsz exclaimed "Its too fast!". LMAO, Great job mattsz using your head for more than a helmet holder and figuring a way to get the rpm's from a recording. The After-The-Fact Tach™ is great too. ;D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 06:28:14 AM by motorman2whel »

mattsz

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Re: Throttle on Elec Start
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2014, 11:10:20 AM »
Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous, but it works!  Who would have thought answering the question,  "Let's see... how fast was my bike idling 15 minutes ago?" would be even remotely useful?