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Author Topic: Ace UCE project.  (Read 29577 times)

ace.cafe

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #180 on: May 15, 2012, 10:27:22 PM »
I'm 100% positive I've narrowed down the louder valve train noise I thought I was hearing. It's the louder clicking you hear when you first start it up cold, it eventually stops when the engine warms. The decompressor? It's not stopping, or closing, or whatever it does when the engine warms. I'm sure of it after listening to it today, that's the clicking I hear, constantly now. It might explain why the exhasust sounds weird to me as well. Is there anything I can do to check this out, or should I just take it to the dealer for inspection? I don't mind pulling a case cover or two. Is there anything electrical, or is it strictly mechanical in nature?

As I understand that decompressor, it is rpm actuated.
I don't know the rpm, though.
What I know is that it works on a centrifugal actuator with a spring, which causes a little "hump" to come up thru the cam lobe when the rpms are below a certain amount, and that lifts the exhaust valve as the cam goes around, and releases the compression in the cylinder.
At a certain rpm, it is supposed to be retracted by the flyweight system inside the cam, and not work again until the rpms drop.
So, I suspect you might be able to get rid of that issue by increasing the idle speed rpm.
If that doesn't work, then it might be sticking.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #181 on: May 15, 2012, 10:44:08 PM »
I believe it's 250RPM.  They tend to stick open for a bit when it's cold.

Scott

Arizoni

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #182 on: May 15, 2012, 10:52:21 PM »
I seem to recall reading somewhere the lift off speed was 700 rpm but whatever it is it is less than the idle speed.

I also noticed that when the oil is cold the auto decompression would tend to "hang up" and cause a loud clicking.
Revving the engine just a little always got the things attention and it would stop causing the loud clicks.

IMO, if riding the motorcycle doesn't make it quit a visit to the shop should be made.

Riding the bike with the exhaust valve hanging open for any distance can burn the exhaust valve and the valve seat.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #183 on: May 15, 2012, 11:00:41 PM »
Maybe it was 750RPM.

Hobbydad

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Re: Ace UCE project
« Reply #184 on: May 15, 2012, 11:55:51 PM »
Yeah, that's what it is. It's either stuck or broken, I'll take it in and have them look at it tomorrow. Now that I know what it is, I don't think it was the rev limiter that made it burp & stall, it was this. I distinctly remember when it did it in 4th and stalled, I had just hit 65mph. I've been up to 70 in 4th a few times, it wasn't the limiter. I was really hoping to avoid not having the bike to any length of time, but if it needs work so be it, it's for the best.
'11 C5 Military

gremlin

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #185 on: May 16, 2012, 03:15:10 AM »

That's not far from where I spent my youth ..... I lived on Vassar&Glendale (near Harvard) .....   I come back every five years or so ~ maybe someday I'll come home for good.

Jim in Minneapolis ....

Hobbydad, you're in Toledo, Ohio? Meet your newest stalker ;) I live in the Old South End behind the zoo.
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


iron.head

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #186 on: May 21, 2012, 09:21:10 PM »




not sure if this will be of any help though!

Ice

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #187 on: May 21, 2012, 10:16:34 PM »
Hi iron.head and welcome aboard.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

gremlin

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #188 on: May 21, 2012, 11:39:53 PM »

cool photos, what caused the abnormal wear ?  do both engines have approx the same history ?

not sure if this will be of any help though!
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


ace.cafe

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #189 on: May 21, 2012, 11:55:07 PM »
That photo of the piston is showing that there was some grit of some kind in the oil that was on the bore, which scored the thrust face of the skirt.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

ace.cafe

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #190 on: May 22, 2012, 03:45:21 PM »
I had a long meeting with the guys at Mondello's yesterday.
A variety of approaches were discussed, and I gave them a pretty good budget to do their development experiments with. My instructions were to get the best bang for the buck that they could get, and I didn't limit what they could do with it. Whatever would give the most, is the instruction, as long as it wouldn't put the final price out of range of the buyers.

I also stipulated that I'd like to be able to offer at least 2 "stages" of performance, so that people on a budget with modest performance improvements wouldn't be forced into a high price option.

One  of the biggest things to come out of the meeting was that they think they may be able to get enough flow improvement out of the exhaust port without moving it around, or enlarging it beyond what the stock pipe can take. This is still a conjecture, but they stated that they might be able to do that. It that turns out to be the case, it could save considerable money from not having to buy the aftermarket exhaust pipe. I think the telephone pole muffler will still have to go, in any case, though.
I always try to keep the costs down by any means possible, as long as I can deliver what's needed in the overall package.

So, we'll have to wait a while, to give these guys some time to work on the development processes. They have the green light and a budget, and if I have to increase the budget along the way, I will do that if it means getting a better result.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #191 on: May 22, 2012, 04:33:35 PM »
Good news so far then :)  I'm glad to hear that there might be an option that retains the stock header which really helps keep cost down.

Scott

Arizoni

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #192 on: May 22, 2012, 06:08:46 PM »
Ace:
Being the lazy sort of guy I am, I will ask you a question.

Does the O2 sensor protrude very far into the gas path?

It's pretty obvious that the area where the O2 sensor is located gets much hotter than the exhaust pipe shortly upstream or downstream so I was thinking it might be quite a severe obstruction.

If it is, perhaps adding a spacer between the O2 sensor and the bung to move the tip back out of the way could improve the exhaust discharge a bit?
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

ace.cafe

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #193 on: May 22, 2012, 08:23:16 PM »
Ace:
Being the lazy sort of guy I am, I will ask you a question.

Does the O2 sensor protrude very far into the gas path?

It's pretty obvious that the area where the O2 sensor is located gets much hotter than the exhaust pipe shortly upstream or downstream so I was thinking it might be quite a severe obstruction.

If it is, perhaps adding a spacer between the O2 sensor and the bung to move the tip back out of the way could improve the exhaust discharge a bit?

Arizoni,
My current answer is "I don't know".
I don't have the pipe here to put on the flow bench.
I suppose that is something that I'll have to measure.

However, moving the O2 sensor back out with a spacer WILL affect its readings. It is very sensitive to position.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 08:26:51 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

GreenRE

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Re: Ace UCE project.
« Reply #194 on: May 22, 2012, 09:12:37 PM »
I had a long meeting with the guys at Mondello's yesterday.
A variety of approaches were discussed, and I gave them a pretty good budget to do their development experiments with. My instructions were to get the best bang for the buck that they could get, and I didn't limit what they could do with it. Whatever would give the most, is the instruction, as long as it wouldn't put the final price out of range of the buyers.

I also stipulated that I'd like to be able to offer at least 2 "stages" of performance, so that people on a budget with modest performance improvements wouldn't be forced into a high price option.

One  of the biggest things to come out of the meeting was that they think they may be able to get enough flow improvement out of the exhaust port without moving it around, or enlarging it beyond what the stock pipe can take. This is still a conjecture, but they stated that they might be able to do that. It that turns out to be the case, it could save considerable money from not having to buy the aftermarket exhaust pipe. I think the telephone pole muffler will still have to go, in any case, though.
I always try to keep the costs down by any means possible, as long as I can deliver what's needed in the overall package.

So, we'll have to wait a while, to give these guys some time to work on the development processes. They have the green light and a budget, and if I have to increase the budget along the way, I will do that if it means getting a better result.

Awesome Ace !

If you could have one of each on the shelf to do an exchange/swap it would put F5's on the road much quicker.