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Author Topic: kickstart trouble.  (Read 1662 times)

Chuck D

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kickstart trouble.
« on: April 16, 2008, 02:24:23 AM »
My new ('06 sixty-5) has about 150 miles on her. At first she would start up on the first or second kick. But lately will only kickstart when already warmed ( as when after gassing up). I do the textbook drill But the best I can manage is "chuff" or two. At this point I use the ES. But it usually takes three or four attempts where the starter motor is not catching and all I'm hearing is the whir of the solenoid. Usually after the fourth try, she roars to life and all is well. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Chuck
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
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Featherbed frame conversion underway.

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Eamon

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2008, 05:58:38 AM »
Well, one of the easiest to check and easiest to remedy problems would be the plug.  I fouled one in my first 300 miles.  Pull the plug and if it looks all black and oily on the tip, then replace it.  Heck, it wouldn't hurt to try a spare plug (if you have one) just to be sure.  There's lot's of other possibilities that I'm sure others will chime in with, but that's the first thing I'd look at. 

I found that in really cold weather I often used too much choke (i.e. left it idling with the choke on too long).  I think that (maybe combined with the really low speeds of break-in) is why it fouled for me.

Eamon
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 06:00:49 AM by Eamon »
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LotusSevenMan

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2008, 06:33:22 AM »
I would go with Eamon's suggestion too of a new plug. At running in you tend to be very gentle on the engine doing fairly short runs both distance and time wise at low revs etc etc. This can all have an adverse effect on keeping the plug 'hot' and clean.
Whip a new 'un in and I'll bet things get better!!!
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DireWolf

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2008, 12:30:33 PM »
I had similar problems.  Kickstarting was a major endeavor that caused great leg-pain.

The plug was clean in mine, but the front tappet was TIGHT.  Loostened it up to proper spin & I'm a "two-kicker" all of a sudden.  Rarely use the electric start, now.  Not positive that this was the cause, but I have a strong suspicion.

Spitting Bull

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2008, 02:36:30 PM »
While checking your plug, look really carefully for any carbon deposit which is making contact between the two electrodes.  Just a tiny flake of carbon is enough to cause a problem when trying to start the bike, and it's more likely to happen when the engine is being run in.

Tom
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Chuck D

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2008, 06:33:04 PM »
Thanks for the response guys. Yeah, fouling, particularly wet fouling has been a problem. I'm on my third plug in 175 miles. It definitely fouls up on starting but usually not enough to prevent ignition permanently, and as I said as soon as she fires up she runs well and as she warms I have to back off the air screw several times in order to slow down the idle. But this is normal, no? As to run in speeds, I have to admit, I do open her up abit for short (5-10 minute) parkway runs where I'll hit an indicated 50 mph. The weather here (NYC) is still fairly cool. My dealer told me not to worry about it too much as long as the temps are low and I'm riding for an hour or so. Back to the plug fouling for a moment, the next thing I'll check is the idle mixture; it may be set to rich. It's my first bike and I was reluctant at first to mess with the settings, but I guess it's time to dive in. :o. Direwolf, thanks for the tip on the tappet. I'm gonna check that too.  Cheers, Chuck.
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
Ace "GP" head in the works.
Featherbed frame conversion underway.

'76 Honda CB550Four K(sold)


"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understandin'?"

Spitting Bull

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2008, 06:48:35 PM »
Chuck, with only 175 miles down, you will find that the tickover increases noticeably as she warms up.  This is because everything is still tight when cold, but loosens a little as she warms up. 

Tom
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Chuck D

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2008, 10:15:14 PM »
So... Tom, where do you keep it? Since there's no tach. my best guess for ideal is an air screw setting that keeps the needle centered in the ammeter. Seems to sound about right but Icant't be sure with nothing to compare it to. What say you?
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
Ace "GP" head in the works.
Featherbed frame conversion underway.

'76 Honda CB550Four K(sold)


"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understandin'?"

Spitting Bull

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 10:58:50 PM »
Chuck - if i remember correctly (my bike is now up to about 7,000 miles so this is no longer a problem) I found that I only needed to make an adjustment of about half a turn when the engine was warm, to slow down the tickover.  I thus got into the habit of turning the screw in half a turn when starting from cold, then turning it out again later (whenever I happened to stop and so noticed the increased tickover speed). 

As the engine freed up, I found that my cold-start tickover was getting too fast, so I backed off the screw a bit, and eventually found that I could just leave it in that one position all the time.  The warmed-up tickover was no longer noticeably faster than the cold tickover.

However, all bikes are different so even when run in, there is nothing wrong with turning the screw in a little to get an easy cold start, and then turning it back again as soon as you have a steady tickover.  That's what it's for, and that's why it has a knurled screw rather than a screwdriver slot.

(At tickover, my ammeter needle is more or less centred, as you suggest). 

Tom

« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 11:03:19 PM by Spitting Bull »
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Leonard

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2008, 12:24:13 AM »
  Are you talking about the pilot/idle jet when you say air screw?  You should never try adjusting that until the engine is completly warm.  It sounds more like you are turning the throttle adjuster, the big screw on the left side of the carb that makes the rpms go up and down.  All the throttle adjuster does is make the slide rise or fall.
  Is it possible that the choke (enricher) is sticking open a little?  Sometimes I have to push down on the plunger with my thumb to get if all the way off.

and as I said as soon as she fires up she runs well and as she warms I have to back off the air screw several times in order to slow down the idle. But this is normal, no?
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Chuck D

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2008, 01:14:12 AM »
Hey Leonard, as Tom indicated above we were referring to the knurled,finger adjustable screw. As you say "the throttle adjuster". On your advice, I'll take a closer look at my choke to make sure the plunger moves all the way. Thanks. Tom, it's reassuring to hear that your experience (in this instance) mirrors my own.  Chuck.
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
Ace "GP" head in the works.
Featherbed frame conversion underway.

'76 Honda CB550Four K(sold)


"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understandin'?"

Leonard

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Re: kickstart trouble.
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2008, 01:15:24 PM »
I thought as much just didn't read Tom's post close enough.  When referring to parts that can go by different names I look to my parts book.  I would call it and "idle screw" myself, just wanted to eliminate confusion.  Hope you get it sorted out.

Hey Leonard, as Tom indicated above we were referring to the knurled,finger adjustable screw. As you say "the throttle adjuster". On your advice, I'll take a closer look at my choke to make sure the plunger moves all the way. Thanks. Tom, it's reassuring to hear that your experience (in this instance) mirrors my own.  Chuck.
2009 Triumph Bonneville T100
2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5 (RIP)
2001 Kawasaki W650 (going, going...gone)
http://www.romeoriders.com