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Author Topic: Now what did I screw up?  (Read 2561 times)

The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 09:51:48 AM »
May pick up a br6es plug and git it a try.

Last weekend fiddled with the carb and tried the p4 190.  Seemed to be good once it got past the lump in the middle of what I think is a too rich needle jet.

Next batch of jets are due in tonight.  Probably will not get time to fiddle until Thursday.  I am thinking an P0 and a 185 or 190 might do the trick.
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

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ace.cafe

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 11:03:21 AM »
I'm getting worried.
P0 is too lean for a needle jet at sea level.
B6ES is WAY too hot a plug.
These things are getting far away from normal parameters for your setup.
You don't need to go there.
A 185 main might be possible, but that's the lower limit, and you have to be sure about it.

I need to know what throttle settings that black plug is happening at, and what throttle settings it's looking normal or lean.
If that is just a "general" plug reading after shutting off the bike, it is not showing you where it's rich or lean.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 11:06:45 AM by ace.cafe »
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The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2012, 12:53:32 PM »
The black plug is at 3/4 to full throttle with no air filter, the p4 195. 

When I put the 190 in the issue seemed to be much more defined down in the 1/4 to 1/2 throttle zone.  Maybe I should have ordered a p2 instead of skipping a size.

I will forgo the plug change.   

Something I observed on this bike as apposed to my 07 is that the Goldie pipe seems to be a lot quieter on this one.  I bought this pipe on fleabay and the one on the 07 from CMW.  They appear to be of different manufacture with the fleabay one being older and possibly vintage.  Judging from the sound it may not be as free flow as the modern one.
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

ace.cafe

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2012, 01:03:52 PM »
Okay,
the 3/4 reading is all needle, so you need to lower your needle to lean out that range a little.
If you are running out of grooves to make the needle lean enough, order a 6DP17 needle, which is equivalent to 2 grooves leaner than the stock needle. This gives you 2 more grooves in the lean direction, if you need it. Most times the sea level bikes don't need that, but we'll deal with what we are seeing individually here.

Full throttle and slightly below is the main jet, so maybe you can use the 185 and see how it is.

For the 1/4-1/2 range, that definitely IS the needle jet area.
The leanest we've ever put a Fireball at sea level is P2 needle jet, and that was really on the dangerous edge of lean.

The Goldstar exhaust issue is a good point, and that could account for the richer readings than I am accustomed to seeing. Our readings are normally with an unbaffled muffler, or a megaphone.
Since the more restrictive exhausts are territory that we really haven't explored, you may have to do some probing in that direction to see what works in that situation.
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mikail gransee

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2012, 02:26:08 PM »
Sounds to me that your timing is off and misfire is occuring...when you throttle it, it floods and dies. Check your ignition points.
-"ONCE YOU STOP CONTRIBUTING, YOU BEGIN TO DIE",   -ELENOR ROOSEVELT

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The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 07:18:44 PM »
Ok,  so back to work on this.

I got home from work today and promptly picked up my envelope of jets, a beer and a mystery envelope I got from CMW.





Turns out the CMW package was a primary gasket kick I ordered some time ago.   Don't even need it any more.....



So on to the jets.     The leanest needle jet I had was a P4.  I ordered a P0 to see if leaner would help.  How ever I am concerned about the P0.   



The P0 is on the left, P4 on the right.  The actual lower shaft appears shorter on the P0, keeping the jet higher in the bowl and not allowing the use of the plastic and brass spacer that resides in the bottom of the bowl.   It also has quite a bit of a taller riser that goes up into the throat of the carb.   I assume I can use this jet but was a bit hesitant and want some opinions on it.
 
So instead of putting the P0 in I ran a P4 with a 190, 195 and 200 in order.  It appears the 190 feels the best.

Also spent some time looking at the ignition and points wiring in general.  Installed a new battery. Moved the advance back and forth and check my gap.  The actual points and condenser are brand new.  I did find a loose wire on the secondary of the coil and had a moment of hope, but to no avail.  The symptoms persist.

It is strange in that the bike idles perfect, starting first kick.  Also if you get it to rev it will scoot along at full throttle.   In between, not so much. 

On a humorous note my neighbor across the street is a Brit and on one of my trips down the driveway he came out and started yelling.  "Hey mate, is it broke?"  I yelled back "I'm working on it" and his response was, "Of course its broke, its British."  Funny with his heavy accent.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 07:25:28 PM by The Garbone »
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

ace.cafe

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2012, 08:01:02 PM »
I don't know what to make of that P0 jet.
It looks unusual. I never used a P0 so far, but I think they should look about like the others. I'd check on it.

When you change the main, it does slightly affect the others too, so see how it feels overall, and if you can notice any midrange improvements.
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The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 04:53:05 PM »
Today I went and purchased a new spark plug wire.  Just wanted to try a different approach.  Did not fix it.

Put in the P0 and the 190 jet and gave it a run.   

Here is 41 seconds of uninspired revving of the motor.


I am not entirely convinced it is jetting. 

To recap,
 The motor was running fine with the P4 195.

I road the bike home as normal on the day this started,  pulled the tank and torqued the head and replace the intake push rod with a shorter one.  With the shorter rod there is noticeably more compression as the longer one seemed to be holding the valve open just a touch.  Put it back together and this symptom appeared.

Since I have,
Dicked with the jets
Adjusted the timing
Replaced the plug and wire
re terminated  the secondary leads on the coil
installed a new battery
checked my voltages

Still the same issue persists.

I am at my wits end on this one.  My next step is to replace the entire breaker assembly with the one off my 07.   I don't think it will fix it but........

Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 04:58:41 PM »
I notice at the start of the video I open the throttle to get the symptoms and you can actually see some globs of fuel being sucked up from the jet.  Hmmmm...
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

jartist

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 07:12:49 PM »
Do you still have the old pushrod to put back in?  Return the back to exactly what you had before just to rule out the changes?  It still sounds like carb issues though if it's just the midrange but you didn't change the carb unless you took it off and bumped it or something.  Is the needle bent or the float cracked or air passage blocked?  Could the needle not be seating all the way where it's supposed to be?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 07:19:00 PM by jartist »

ace.cafe

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012, 07:51:08 PM »
I'm leery of that long pushrod, if it's holding the valve open.
You can burn a valve real quick by holding it open. I'd use the short pushrod, and adjust it correctly for length.

Typically, if you can get it thru the problem area, and then have it clear up at higher revs, it's jetting.
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The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012, 08:04:52 PM »
I think I will start fiddling with the needle as Tom suggested.   I am hesitant as the spring can be a pain to work with but I see no other way.   I will ride it around tommorow and get a feel then lower the needle and see if the dead spot moves higher in the throttle accordingly.  I may have to order a new needle if it does. 

When riding it runs fine at idle and just off, but I have to nurse it through 1/4 to 3/4 or so.  It is just such a drastic dead area that none of my fiddling has seemed to fix.

Also when I put the P0 in it raised the main jet about 1/4 inch or so as it does not accomidate the main jet ring assembly.

Another thought I had was to remove the muffler and see if the it helps.  If it does I can swap Goldies or get a megaphone.
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

ace.cafe

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2012, 06:37:30 AM »
Your affected throttle range is in the territory that is controlled by the needle and needle jet.
I'd say that working with the needle is the thing to do next.

If you can get somebody to hold the spring up, while you fiddle with getting the cable end out of the slide, it helps. It's a 3-hand activity.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

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The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 05:50:34 PM »
Ugg , rained out this afternoon. 
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

The Garbone

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Re: Now what did I screw up?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 06:20:02 PM »
Got a bit of fiddling before the rain set in today. 

Pulled the breaker assembly off the 07' and put it on just to see if it made any difference. It did not.  So much for a quick fix, on to jetting.

Lowered the slide to the top notch and put in a 185 with a P0 needle jet.

I could get on the throttle a bit more but it still has a dead spot in the middle of the throttle.  It is easier to nurse it through but I feel that the 185 is too anemic at the top end. 

For giggle I put the P4 back in with a 200 and gave it a try. Definately much worse.   I then pulled the muffler off and looked down it with a flash light and sure enough it had appears to have a baffle way down inside the rear.  I tried to run it without the muffler and although it sounded better it did not improve things with the over rich jetting. 

I was going to give a P0 and 190 a try with no muffler but it started to rain so that is it for me today.   Maybe a O6 and 190 also and see how that feels. 

I think I will be ordering a new needle and swapping the mufflers so the 95 has the more free flow one is currenty insalled on the 07.   Or I could forgo having to worry about rejetting the 07 and buy a megaphone... hmmmm....
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *