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Author Topic: Noisy tappets?  (Read 1887 times)

Blackthou

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Noisy tappets?
« on: May 16, 2008, 10:25:24 PM »
Hi Guys,
This a long post. I'd nearly finished it when the browser flipped me out and I lost it. >:(

I've completed 1000 miles now on my 350 Classic, Sunday was a lovely sunny day about 22C or low 70'sF, so went out for a ride around the lanes and ended up doing 80 miles at speeds of 30-50 depending on the limits and traffic with the odd few seconds creeping up to an indicated 55 with no due stress applied. I closed the throttle every now and then as I'd read somewhere this draws up extrta lube. The whole ride was a gentle one. The speedo needle started waving about after about 90 mins. Maybe the cable/drive had warmed up or needed oiling. Anyone else had that problem?

All went well until about 3 miles from home. I was going up a hill at a steady 40 quite easily when the bike gave symptons of running out of gas. I pulled over to the side and altough I had no power it was ticking over and making a deep droning noise. Then died.

I thought something terrible had happened. Switched to reserve and she started 2nd kick and ran sweetly enough. Drove home very gently. When I got home I took my helmet off and there were no unusual noises except the tappets. They sounded very clattery.

Checked them over tonight and the adjustment was still perfect. While I was at it I checked the points (contact breakers) and the gap was .008" and there was a pip on one half. Took them out, stoned them up and refitted them. Also dropped the needle 1 as she is running a little rich (Amal conversion) and adjusted clutch lift as was experiencing some drag at the lights now she's bedded in a bit. 

Started the engine 2nd kick. Running nicely but tappets still very metallic sounding about 1/2 way up the barrel. Any ideas?

Oil about 1/2 way on dip stick and still alovely golden colour. No sign of anything amiss beneath the tappet cover. Guess I'll remove the rocker covers and check but it doesn't sound as if it's coming from there. I'll also  check the lube supply as I've got Samrat rockers fitted but with the oil mod as recommended by Hitchock.

Any thoughts or similar experiences welcome.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 10:34:27 PM by Blackthou »

Spitting Bull

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2008, 11:09:16 PM »
Blackthou - I bet that if you fill the tank up, the problem will disappear!  The sound of the tappets seems to be amplified by an empty tank.  When my engine starts to sound tappety I know it's time to think about refuelling.

Best wishes -

Tom
One cylinder is enough for anyone.

oldsalt

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2008, 05:30:05 AM »
Blackthou - I bet that if you fill the tank up, the problem will disappear!  The sound of the tappets seems to be amplified by an empty tank.  When my engine starts to sound tappety I know it's time to think about refuelling.

Best wishes -

Tom

I know what the owners manual says about setting the valve lash.  It is, incidently, identical to the verbage for setting the lash on my '41 Knuckle.  Zero up/down, but will spin freely.  On the website I have heard things about the Bullet tappets normally making a hearty noise.  I'm beginning to feel left out...mine only click halfheartedly.  Nothing like a good manly clatter.  In your experience would you advise  a lash of, say, somewhat more than zero?  Would it hurt anything to have them a tad loose?  The Knucklehead is said to be in danger of screwing up the valve train if ran loose for an extended period.  So it can't be called upon to make that noise, however there are enough other loose, clanky things inside that emit quit satisfying noises. 
-2006 Sixty-5
-1941 Knuckle
-Lotza Mini Bikes
-67 Triumph 500
-46 Hiawatha
-67 Triumph 650

jonapplegate

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2008, 05:42:00 AM »
I have found that even though there is still gas in the tank at a certain point you still seem to "run out" This caused a boggling mystery problem fo a while.
    I have also started letting up on the throttle suddenly to create this vacuum effect that will draw oil up into the cylinder. My problem with this, is this. I am usually pretty good visualizing what is going on from a mechanicasl perspective and just cannot picture the effect that is described. Is this good advice or is it an old wives tale? Letting off and varying speed is always a good idea but...

oldsalt

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2008, 06:24:58 AM »
jonapplegate
It's true.  Over-running the engine [closeing the throttle and useing the engine as a brake] does pull [more] oil past the rings.  The piston on it's induction stroke [intake valve open]  is sucking against the closed throttle plate.  The negative pressure on the top of the piston is dependent upon a lot of things but it will for sure pull some lube up to the top ring which is the hottest of the rings but gets the least oil. This also has a cooling effect on the hot parts inside the engine.  Ya can't, in my humble opinion, do too much of that during the first 1000 miles.  Also, in my opinion, it is not necessary to completely close the throttle to 'do your motor good'.   
-2006 Sixty-5
-1941 Knuckle
-Lotza Mini Bikes
-67 Triumph 500
-46 Hiawatha
-67 Triumph 650

Blackthou

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Re: Noisy tappets? Update
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2008, 05:51:08 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for your posts. This afternoon I decided to strip the rocker gear to check everything was ok and it was. Good lubrication and no signs of wear.
Double checked tappet settings and they were fine. Also made a discovery, the pushrods spin with no noticeable play but the ball on the end of the rocker is smaller than the cup on the top of the push rod to allow clearance for the angles during valve operation.
As such the push rods can be pushed sideways or front to back as viewed from the timing side. If they are pushed back quickly the side of the cup contacts the side of the rocker and makes the clattering sound I'm hearing! Guess they've just bedded in to that point. I'm wondering if I replace the originals with better quality Hitchcock's parts all will be quiet again. What do you reckon?
Went out for a test run and noticed the vast improvement from doing the points, maybe I'll invest in electronic (Boyer) ignition but must confess I'd rather spend money on losing the tappet noise!

t120rbullet

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2008, 06:10:53 PM »
Yes the ball end on the Samrat rockers is smaller that the one on the stock rockers.
It shouldn't be a problem though. Maybe you just need to get them a bit tighter.
I've used the Samrat rockers and never had any "noise" problems with em. I always thought that they were quieter than the stock ones.
If you feel like you have to throw some money at it consider the Super Duper ones from CMW,
http://tinyurl.com/4adxol
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2008, 09:55:04 PM »
You know there is a reason we sell T-Shirts that say
"Loud Valves Save Lives"
http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/royal-enfield-loud-valves-vintage-style-tshirt-p-159.html

Blackthou

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2008, 08:51:44 PM »
The Samrat rockers were much quieter originally, virtually silent.Guess I'll start wearing my earplugs again.

bob bezin

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2008, 11:02:46 PM »
Hi Guys,
This a long post. I'd nearly finished it when the browser flipped me out and I lost it. >:(

I've completed 1000 miles now on my 350 Classic, Sunday was a lovely sunny day about 22C or low 70'sF, so went out for a ride around the lanes and ended up doing 80 miles at speeds of 30-50 depending on the limits and traffic with the odd few seconds creeping up to an indicated 55 with no due stress applied. I closed the throttle every now and then as I'd read somewhere this draws up extrta lube. The whole ride was a gentle one. The speedo needle started waving about after about 90 mins. Maybe the cable/drive had warmed up or needed oiling. Anyone else had that problem?

All went well until about 3 miles from home. easily when the bike gavI was going up a hill at a steady 40 quite e symptons of running out of gas. I pulled over to the side and altough I had no power it was ticking over and making a deep droning noise. Then died.

I thought something terrible had happened. Switched to reserve and she started 2nd kick and ran sweetly enough. Drove home very gently. When I got home I took my helmet off and there were no unusual noises except the tappets. They sounded very clattery.

Checked them over tonight and the adjustment was still perfect. While I was at it I checked the points (contact breakers) and the gap was .008" and there was a pip on one half. Took them out, stoned them up and refitted them. Also dropped the needle 1 as she is running a little rich (Amal conversion) and adjusted clutch lift as was experiencing some drag at the lights now she's bedded in a bit. 

Started the engine 2nd kick. Running nicely but tappets still very metallic sounding about 1/2 way up the barrel. Any ideas?

Oil about 1/2 way on dip stick and still alovely golden colour. No sign of anything amiss beneath the tappet cover. Guess I'll remove the rocker covers and check but it doesn't sound as if it's coming from there. I'll also  check the lube supply as I've got Samrat rockers fitted but with the oil mod as recommended by Hitchock.

Any thoughts or similar experiences welcome.


2000 RE classic ,              56 matchless g80
2006 RE delux fireball       86 yamaha SRX 600
65 500cctriumph
04 bonnie black
71 750 norton.
48 whizzer

bob bezin

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2008, 11:10:47 PM »
well i guess i dont know how to quote one line.but the experience of the bike sort of running out of gas losing power .well and maybe sounding like a spark plug buzzed out which is what happened to me really scared me at first  i had been on a ride with about 1000 miles on the bike and had gone up to about indicated 60 (53) when this happened. the bike just hauled down i inspected the plug  ok i looked at the compression release  ok  started the bike and it ran as  normal what could have that been ? no tappet noise though..
2000 RE classic ,              56 matchless g80
2006 RE delux fireball       86 yamaha SRX 600
65 500cctriumph
04 bonnie black
71 750 norton.
48 whizzer

t120rbullet

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Re: Noisy tappets?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 12:03:27 AM »
well i guess i dont know how to quote one line.but the experience of the bike sort of running out of gas losing power .well and maybe sounding like a spark plug buzzed out which is what happened to me really scared me at first  i had been on a ride with about 1000 miles on the bike and had gone up to about indicated 60 (53) when this happened. the bike just hauled down i inspected the plug  ok i looked at the compression release  ok  started the bike and it ran as  normal what could have that been ? no tappet noise though..

Maybe one of the 2 screens on the petcock have some crud in em and it's starving for fuel.
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"