HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

standerd bullet 350


in
Members Rides

65 Guests, 4 Users (1 Hidden)
pdxRE, Bullet Whisperer, AgentX
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 28, 2014, 08:22:14 AM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs  (Read 3519 times)

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« on: August 06, 2012, 01:31:49 PM »
hi all
anyone have the hagon twin shocks with the 16kg/90lb springs
i plan to get this set up to compensate for the rough country roads in my area.
weigh about 175 lbs but not too good in the back department so hoping these will do the job and help smooth out the ride
get a bit tired of lifting off the seat several times during the ride ???
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

jartist

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 761
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 03:13:44 PM »
Don't go too light on the springs or they'll bottom out on big bumps which doesn't feel good for one's back. If you order from Dave Quinn you can specify the amount of damping as well. Just call him and tell him the effect you're looking for and he can help take some of the guesswork out of it. Custom spec'd shocks for $200 can't be beat.  I got heavy springs for loaded two-up touring and they're still easier on the back than the stock ones.

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 05:27:45 PM »
Bill,

The Hagons are a lot more responsive than the stockers to start with.  I think I got the 100# springs and I weight 225#, also with a bad back.  I think the lighter spring is a good idea for your weight.  I'd also say order from Dave Quinn.  If the springs aren't right they offer up to 2 swaps for no charge.

Scott
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 06:25:53 PM by Ducati Scotty »

GSS

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 06:23:01 AM »
Yup. Same problem here. The 18kg/100lb are way too hard on my back and I weigh about 175 as well. I have the 16kg/90lb spring coming from Dave Quinn soon. Maggie has been amazing. Absolutely wonderful customer service.

GSS
2014 GT - Red
2010 C5 - Teal
It's a Jeep thing......you wouldn't understand.

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 07:26:34 AM »
just purchased the 16kg/90lb spring system
from dave quinn
springs arriving from the uk this week and hopefully posted out this friday to oz
not a bad round trip for them
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 08:39:55 AM »
I'd be very interested to hear how you guys get on with the lighter springs. I got my Hagons on monday and find them to be pretty harsh.
This thread prompted me to phone Hagon this morning to ask what weight springs they gave me, and it turns out they put 20kg springs on!
I told them my weight - 165lb - when I ordered, and the bloke I spoke to today agreed that 20kg might be a bit on the hard side. I suggested 16kg, but he seemed to think that might be going too light and suggested I drop one size to 18kg. Having read what you guys are saying, I'm not so sure. It seems to me that with the lighter springs I can wind them up a notch or two if they do bottom out. I only ever ride solo but I do like to hammer it a bit on the twisties.
Unfortunately Hagon are on the other side of the country, otherwise I could take them in and they'd change them while I wait.
I'm leaninmg towards the 16kg, but being advised to go for the 18kg.

And  -  What is the lbs number referring to in your posts?
Thanks
Will
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Desi Bike

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: 1
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 12:52:15 PM »
Lbs is an acronym for 'Long Before System' its an antique system of weight that the Americans use unlike the rest of the modern world that use the international standard of the metric system. I think the standard lb is the weight of a chicken at high noon or something like that.
میں نہیں چاہتا کہ ایک اچار
میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 01:19:48 PM »
Thanks Desi.
I know that lbs means pounds - but I don't know what it's referring to in the above posts. I mean - 16kg isn't equivalent to 90lb! 16kg = 35lb (approx).
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 01:30:03 PM »
I can't figure out what their numbers refer to either, it should be some kind of spring rate but those are usually in kg/mm.  The shocks work so I stopped worrying and just :)

There are only three preload notches on the shocks, so even one notch is a pronounced difference.  I like my 18kg and I weigh 225#, I mean "lbs", but if that's what they recommend try it out.  If it doesn't work you can swap again.  It only takes a few seconds to swap the springs, and you can do it by hand, no tools required really.

Scott

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 07:24:30 PM »
I've just been out & about on some of the bumpier roads around here, and those 20kg Hagons are WAY too hard. Ouch, rock solid!
From what you're saying Scott, if the 18kg springs suit you at 225lb weight, I'm thinking the 16kg ought to be the better option for me, 60lb lighter - in spite of the Hagon man recommending the 18kg. I doubt they'd be soft enough to bottom out, and there's two notches of adjustment anyway. I was happy with the ride on the stockers, so really am looking for same but better, if you know what I mean..
I guess they'd change them again anyway if necessary, but it's shipping costs each time.
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 07:59:09 PM »
I don't know what springs are on my Hagans, but they work extremely well. They don't have any markings on them like the old Girlings. I told the Dave Quinn guys that I weighed about 185-190 suited up, and don't ride two up. What ever they sent me were right on. Looking at the weights you guys are talking about, I would ASSume these 18 pounders. I tried to call them, but they're not easy to get ahold of on Wednesdays.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 08:09:51 PM »
Bill, the Hagons are more compliant than the stockers were, even with the 100# springs.  Why don't you order one set of shocks and extra springs?  Make a deal to return the springs you don't use.  With the shock off the bike you can change them in seconds by hand.

Bare, just send them an e-mail.  That way they can get to it when they get to it ;)

Scott

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 08:52:08 PM »
Yes I thought of that after I posted. I'll call them in the morning and see if they'll send me the springs so I can try out both sets and return the ones I don't like. Hopefully it's an easy DIY job. I've got the shocks with the partial top shroud; they look pretty much like the stockers but without the rust and the ugly plastic bottle glued on the back....
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 09:09:32 PM »
Just set to lowest preload, grab the shroud, and press down.  The spring should depress enough to remove the keeper washer on top.  Slide the old spring off, the new on, press down and slip the washer back in.  If it sounds odd it should make total sense once you see the shocks.

Scott

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 09:31:59 PM »
Thanks Scott. That makes sense. I didn't look that closely when I fitted them, other than to notice they look really well made. Hopefully the man at Hagon will see things my way and be willing to send the springs so I can change them myself.
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 11:35:19 PM »
just got an email from dave quinn - my 16kg/ shocks have been posted...........now the wait to get them to the land of oz :P
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2012, 11:48:41 PM »
That's like halfway around the world or something. :P

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 08:55:31 AM »
your right! i hope there not warn out by the time they arrive - down yonder.
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2012, 07:02:14 PM »
I did talk to them today to see what spring rate they send me. It is the 18 kg spring that works extremely well for my weight. It is on the lowest setting on the shock. Most of the other shocks I've gotten had 95 lb springs on them. However these are a bit shorter stroke and need to be a bit stiffer. He did give me the conversion factor from kg/cm to lbs/in as 5.56.
But at 165, I think the 16kg springs would suit you guys well.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2012, 07:06:10 PM »
Thanks Bare, that's reassuring. I sent the shocks back today to get the 16kg springs fitted - they weren't keen to send me the springs to let me mess around with them myself. Health & safety gone mad again I daresay... ::)
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2012, 08:22:55 PM »
FWIW, I'm 225 and ride on the middle preload setting.  Maybe if I stop eating so many French fries I can ride on the lowest one day like Bare ;)

Also, these are progressive springs.  A few of the coils are wrapped closer together than the rest just like on the stockers.  The closer wrapped section is a bit softer which can make initial movement for small bumps easier but not bottom out on the big hits.  Somewhere on the Hagon site is says that their rating is an average for the entire progressive  spring.

Scott

GSS

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2012, 06:06:31 AM »
I got the 16kg and put those in today. I think these will be perfect.....hopefully a break in the rain today so that I can take it out.

The 18 kg were way too stiff. Even jumping up and down on the seats on the stationary bike would cause virtually no compression of the 18 kg springs. The 16 on the other hand feel much better. I think this is going to do the trick.
2014 GT - Red
2010 C5 - Teal
It's a Jeep thing......you wouldn't understand.

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2012, 06:30:41 AM »
sounds good, keen to hear the end results. mine are in transit should arrive from the usa sometime this week
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 04:44:26 PM »
I got the 16KG spring Hagons on yesterday, and first impressions on a 30 mile run are that they're just fine. I can bounce the bike a bit on the springs at a standstill, and the handling & damping on the road are good. I left them on the softest setting but will try the middle setting later today just out of curiousity.
Glad I didn't go for the 18kg, I think they'd still have been too hard.
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2012, 06:10:57 PM »
Update - they're good on the middle setting too. I hammered it a bit this time and took in all the local bumpy curves where the bike usually gets a bit twitchy at speed. These Hagons really are good and the bike feels way more planted when pushed hard.
I'm now even more impressed with the way this bike handles, and it's exactly the right size & weight for me. Doesn't vibrate either, it never has. I took it up to around 85mph (indicated..) and still pretty smooth.
OK - I admit it.....it's a keeper...... ;) 8)
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2012, 06:24:37 PM »
Awesome!  I'm glad you're enjoying them and it's great that the community now has another data point on weight/springs.

Scott

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2012, 06:31:33 PM »
Quote
Also, these are progressive springs.  A few of the coils are wrapped closer together than the rest just like on the stockers.  The closer wrapped section is a bit softer which can make initial movement for small bumps easier but not bottom out on the big hits

Actually the way the springs use the same wire all the way through. The way they work progressively is by allowing the closer wound spring section to close up and effectively shorten the remaining spring to stiffen up as their effective length is reduced. The shorter the wire, the more resistance there is.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

The_Rigger

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Karma: 0
  • Mom Always Liked You Better...
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2012, 06:49:19 PM »
Awesome!  I'm glad you're enjoying them and it's great that the community now has another data point on weight/springs.

I wonder if anyone up in my region of the weight scale (over 250#) has a set, or has an idea of what weight of springs they'd wind up with...  I'm thinking the hundred-pound springs may be a bit too light for me (approaching 20 stone - and you people think "pounds" is a ridiculous unit of measurement?)...
-Dave
2012 C5 Special
Central Michigan, USA (when I'm not working somewhere else)

WillW

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Karma: 0
  • ~ it's about the ride ~
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2012, 06:58:28 PM »
Rigger, Scott is 225lb (16 stone) and is happy with the 18kg springs, so I should think you ought to be easily ok with the 20 kg springs. If you phone or email Hagon they'll be able to advise you.
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2012, 11:45:33 PM »
Scott's in the mid range of the settings at 225 on 18 lb springs. Or you should easily fall into the 20 lbs ones, or all the way compressed 18 pounders. As WillW says, call Dave Quinn, they'll ask you  about your riding habits and weight and fix you up properly. They actually only take phone orders, so they get it right the first time.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

GSS

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2012, 01:58:53 AM »
sounds good, keen to hear the end results. mine are in transit should arrive from the usa sometime this week

16kg ride report.....did a little run in the rain today and tried to hit known rough spots and a couple of bumpy railroad crossings.....absolute perfection.  Handling is unchanged compared to 18kg, but the stiffness in the ride is gone.  My back is a lot happier and seat feels comfy once again on the softest setting.  The 18kg was way too stiff even with a pillion rider.  With all due respect to Bare and Will, I would probably recommend no more than 18kg for heavier folks and 16kg as a "standard" for everyone else.
2014 GT - Red
2010 C5 - Teal
It's a Jeep thing......you wouldn't understand.

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2012, 02:03:09 AM »
great info. hope mine arrive today
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

Amsters

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2013, 09:04:28 AM »
Hi folks, Newbie here so bear with...

I'm a Brit on a US forum looking for advice on my Indian made Bullet   ;D

You've gotta laugh........haha

I have the same issue as you guys, my bikes a Bullet Electra Efi (G5 in the US?). I love it to bits but the suspension beating me up good.  I've changed the fork oil to ATF and thats sorted the front but now I'm on to the rear springs. At the moment I'm on the standard kit which in my case is a pair of Endurance gas shocks which seem pretty well constructed so I don't really want to replace them. The springs however are monsters. I've measured the spring rate by compressing  one in a pillar drill with a wiegh scale under the spring. At 1" of compression I read 45kg. At 2" compression I read 89kg!! and then there's two of them! I reckon these bikes are spung to go 4 up over the Himalayas  ;D

My weight is 78 kg (170lb) and I can see from the above discussion that the 16kg/90lb springs are liked.  I'm getting confused on spring rates though - does the 16kg/90lb spring you refer to mean 16kg/90lb per 1" compression?  If it does that means I'm derating the spring rate by almost 70% ?  Does this sound right?

Any advice welcome.

Oh!! I checked the weigh scales and they are accurate to about 1kg in 80.

BTW. Hitchcocks have a 'softer' pair of springs for the G5 EFI in their new 2013 catalog - sadly they don't show the spring rate, so I rang them and found the don't show it cos they don't know it.....  great!



mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2264
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 09:33:24 AM »
16kg ride report.....did a little run in the rain today and tried to hit known rough spots and a couple of bumpy railroad crossings.....absolute perfection.  Handling is unchanged compared to 18kg, but the stiffness in the ride is gone.  My back is a lot happier and seat feels comfy once again on the softest setting.  The 18kg was way too stiff even with a pillion rider.  With all due respect to Bare and Will, I would probably recommend no more than 18kg for heavier folks and 16kg as a "standard" for everyone else.

Dave Quinn has made recommendations for these guys based on discussions with them re. their riding weight and habits, which these guys have been most happy with.  So, with the idea that you've gotta start somewhere, I took Dave's advice and ordered 18kg springs.  I ride at about 175lb with fairly light weight saddle bags occasionally added.  Haven't installed them yet, but will do soon in the next couple of weeks.

Problem is, how do I know without trying both?  This is my first bike, so I've got absolutely nothing to compare it to, except the factory shocks...

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2013, 12:48:31 PM »
i tried both and the 16kg was a better ride
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2264
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2013, 04:13:28 PM »
You guys who like the 16kg springs, either at first go or after exchanging for the 18's (GSS, Wildbill, WillW)... would you mind terribly if I asked you for a ballpark figure of what you and your gear weigh?

1 Thump

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1239
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2013, 04:36:43 PM »
I wonder how a sprung solo seat changes this calculation.
2008 RE Classic- Fireball-For Sale

2009 Aprilia Mana

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2013, 05:38:27 PM »
The sprung solo seat doesn't change things all that much.

I have no idea what the numbers in those spring rates mean, and I know a fair bit about spring rates.  They are a porgressively wound spring unless you get the very stiffest ones which are straight rate.  Don't worry too much about what they mean, just go with what others are having good luck with.  I weigh 220# and I'm happy with the 18kg springs set in the middle of three preload settings.  I'm guessing 16kg may be better for you since you're lighter, unless you carry passengers a lot.

Being in the UK I doubt you're going to buy from Dave Quinn here in the US but e-mail them anyway.  Explain that people here are raving about their service and you'd like their recommendation for spring rate even though you'll purchase locally in the UK.  I'm betting they'll still lend a hand.

Scott

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2013, 06:38:01 PM »
Quote
I took Dave's advice and ordered 18kg springs.  I ride at about 175lb with fairly light weight saddle bags occasionally added.  Haven't installed them yet, but will do soon in the next couple of weeks.

At 175, you will have the 18kg springs on the lightest settings. If you go with the 16s you will have some adjustability. If I had to do it again, I would've gone with the 16s. I weigh about 185-190 with riding stuff on.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

GSS

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2013, 08:12:46 PM »
I am around 175-180 and 16 kg works well on the softest setting. 18 kg was plain horrendous even with a pillion rider.  I tried sitting on the pillion seat with the bike off the stand and bouncing up and down produced virtually no compression of the 18 kg springs.
2014 GT - Red
2010 C5 - Teal
It's a Jeep thing......you wouldn't understand.

Amsters

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2013, 08:45:44 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys,

I contacted Dave Quinn and he was really helpful.

The spring rates he quotes are measured in kg/cm and lb/inch.

I measured the stock RE springs ( off the shock) at 45kg per 1" of compression which converts to 18kg/cm so the stock shock has an 18kg spring. 

Has anyone tried fitting a 16kg spring to the stock shock?

I ask because I suspect the stock shock compression damping may be too heavy and as that's not able to be modified I may be better off just using Hagons.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:57:27 PM by Amsters »

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2013, 08:58:26 PM »
I'd say don't waste your time.  The stock shocks are really cheap items and the damping on them is pretty lame.  They are very stiffly damped.  The Hagon shocks move SOOOOOOO much better.  Even people lighter than me who have ridden my bike (18kg springs on mid setting) are amazed at how much better than stock it feels.  Please, just get some Hagons.  They really are that much better.  If you don't have the coin for them right now, skip buying new springs and save until you do.

Scott

kammersangerin

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2013, 09:52:17 PM »
I actually have just put those springs on and I will strangle the next person who instantly responds with..you'll bottom out. I can't get into more detail now, but I will this evening. 

kammersangerin

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2013, 01:18:00 PM »
OK, so I am a diddle head because I didn't see the dates on the threads and read the rest of the comments.

I got my springs from Hagon USA and I am very happy with their service. Dave Quin didn;t have them in the size I wanted and I wasn't going to wait 6 weeks. However, after a long and helpful discussion, once again, someone has sold me something that wasn't really what I wanted. Generally, I do a good bit of research -from helpful places like this forum - and go by instinct. I have the 16 springs supposedly at 90/120 at the lowest setting. I weigh 115. I will be about 105 by this summer. They settle maybe a half inch with the bike, and not even that once I sit on it. For me, they are still quite hard, and if people who weigh 175 are happy with them, it shows how much weight I could carry in my saddle bags before it got comfy enough for me. There is still three inches of clearance under the rear wheel with 11.5 inch springs, and the spring gets harder as is compresses. From now on I will just go one softer or shorter than I am recommended by the sales people.

I snapped about the warning on bottoming out because, well, I have been warned and warned about that over the years, and it's never happened. Not even close, and I have relegated to being beaten to death. I wish I had just done this on my Vespa - with over 4 inches of clearance, and seen if that was enough.

I am going to ride the bike a bit more to try them, but I expect they will be going back, for either softer springs that are really for my weight, or for the shorter shock height I wanted. The dealer had them at 11 inches, so there is no reason why I shouldn't.

Good luck to you.


barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2013, 07:00:35 PM »
The problem with changing shock heights is that it changes the steering geometry. Lowering the rear end will slow down the steering and make it a bit heavier. Some people would never really notice the difference. It depends on your riding style. If you are one who never really pushes the handling aspect of the bike, you won't have a problem.
As far as bottoming goes, you can always go to a higher aspect ratio tire and that can give you more fender clearance if needed. A pair of Pirelli MT66s for instance will give you nearly 1/2" more clearance. And they work very well. At 105 pounds, You should probably got even lighter than 16 on the springs if they're available. They use the same shocks no matter what springs you put on.
As for the stock shock, the damping on them is hopelessly hard. I'm not sure they move even with the spring off! ;)
My riding buddy, Jack, thought they were OK, but he weighs a whole lot more than I. However his story changed when he broke his stock ones and he replaced them with Hagons!
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2013, 07:09:29 PM »
Slight correction Bare, they do have different shock bodies with different damping rates.  Each damping rate suits several springs.  And they have the adjustable damping models for $100 more.

Scott

Amsters

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2013, 09:21:52 AM »
I have the 16 springs supposedly at 90/120 at the lowest setting. I weigh 115. I will be about 105 by this summer. They settle maybe a half inch with the bike, and not even that once I sit on it. For me, they are still quite hard, and if people who weigh 175 are happy with them, it shows how much weight I could carry in my saddle bags before it got comfy enough for me.

Thanks again guys..... 

Quick question for kammersangerin .....

So did you fit the 16kg springs to Hagons or the stock gas shock?

Has anyone played with the stock shock gas pressure or removed the large plastic cover on the top of the gas reservoir - I'm wondering if the oil could be changed for something thinner to reduce the damping rate.



barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5035
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2013, 06:16:17 PM »
Quote
Has anyone played with the stock shock gas pressure or removed the large plastic cover on the top of the gas reservoir - I'm wondering if the oil could be changed for something thinner to reduce the damping rate.

Why bother? Jack has a shaft break on his stock ones. they aren't much good from any angle. Did you try letting the air out? That might soften them up a bit.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2013, 06:40:59 PM »
You need some special tools to re-pressurize them.  IMO, totally not worth it.  They are cheap shocks and will never be that great.  You can maybe make them a little better but Hagons are around $200.  Someone else found another shock for $100 that was also good.  Don't polish a turd, you'll just get your hands dirty.

Scott

kammersangerin

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2013, 07:08:13 PM »
Don't polish a turd, you'll just get your hands dirty.


Thank yu Scotty, a sage bit of advice in a highly entertaining way.

Amsters, I just bought the hagon shock whole and my neighbor slapped them in. It's too easy to waste your time on a pair of shocks that aren't that great. Maybe one day you'll buy a newer enfield, and you can just slap the stock ones back on when you sell. Or say the bike were totoaled in in accident but your Hagons survived, again, just swap before it goes to the scrap heap.



avandr

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2013, 08:04:22 PM »
Hey wildbill, I'm in Melbourne could I ask what postage cost to Oz and part number of 16kg/90lb Hagons?
Thanks in advance

Amsters

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2013, 10:10:59 PM »
Don't polish a turd, you'll just get your hands dirty.

Scott

haha - very true.....    but sadly I can't stretch to the Hagons right now...

So I decided to have a go with the 'softer' springs that Hitchcocks have just
added to their 2013 catalog.....  They couldn't tell me what the spring rate was so they accepted that I would return them if they didn't suit.   Anyway they arrived today and I measured the spring rate, they're 13.5kg/cm (75lb/in). Sounded way too light for me (I'm 170lb) but I gave them a tryout over a very potholed trail - I found they seemed fine one notch up from softest, no more spine jarring except when riding out of some very deep square edged potholes and just under an inch of sag when I sit down. I guess the softness of these springs is offset by the heavy damping of the shock? They cost about 30 ($45) and are only available in black.  They'll do until I find another job then I'll follow you guys and get a set of Hagons with the 16kg springs.

Thanks for all the good advice guys - much appreciated.

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2013, 10:17:05 PM »
Well a budget is a budget.  Maybe you're lucky and these are the same length as what you'll need for the Hagons.  They you can just buy the shock bodies and put them on.

Scott

swingarm

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2013, 09:36:10 AM »
Hey wildbill, I'm in Melbourne could I ask what postage cost to Oz and part number of 16kg/90lb Hagons?
Thanks in advance

In Oz you can get Hagons from Moose Racing at Euroa. I found Darrell very helpful and the delivery was quick to Melbourne. http://www.hagonshocksvictoria.websyte.com.au/

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2013, 09:48:43 AM »
$300 posted
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

JVS

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 0
  • I love chicken
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2013, 02:22:14 PM »
Sorry to bring this up again, but can anyone tell me the difference between Type A and Type P shocks? From here - http://www.davequinnmotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/HAGON_TWIN_SHOCKS.html

I want the Classic III shocks, with full shrouds (black upper, polished lower), #9 in class A and #6 in class P. Huge price difference. Why is this? They look exactly the same. Something to do with slimline etc?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 02:24:26 PM by JVS »
Sons continuing wars, our fathers were enemies


bluesdaddy2

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2013, 02:35:28 PM »
Sorry to bring this up again, but can anyone tell me the difference between Type A and Type P shocks? From here - http://www.davequinnmotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/HAGON_TWIN_SHOCKS.html

I want the Classic III shocks, with full shrouds (black upper, polished lower), #9 in class A and #6 in class P. Huge price difference. Why is this? They look exactly the same. Something to do with slimline etc?

On their page it explains:

HAGON TWIN SHOCKS are based on a common damping body, available in
BLACK PAINTED (Hagon "ROAD SHOCKS" Type A) or
POLISHED STAINLESS (Hagon "CUSTOM SHOCKS" Type P) finish-
2012 Royal Enfield C5 Chrome/Black
1938 Harley-Davidson Model U (patiently waiting some TLC)
1975 HD Sportster (Gone but not forgotten)

Vergennes, VT
Ilion, NY

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 7970
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2013, 02:38:49 PM »
So, what length(eye-to-eye) is everyone using for the C5?
Is getting a slightly shorter length doing anything to enhance the C5 stability at speed, or is there no difference noted?
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

JVS

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 0
  • I love chicken
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2013, 02:39:57 PM »
Yup, I read that but couldn't get around the price going up by almost $100 just for being polished/custom?  :-\
Sons continuing wars, our fathers were enemies


The_Rigger

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Karma: 0
  • Mom Always Liked You Better...
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2013, 01:23:06 AM »
So, what length(eye-to-eye) is everyone using for the C5?

320mm.
-Dave
2012 C5 Special
Central Michigan, USA (when I'm not working somewhere else)

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2013, 02:18:37 AM »
Yup, I read that but couldn't get around the price going up by almost $100 just for being polished/custom?  :-\

That's polished stainless steel.  Stainless ain't cheap.

Scott

Ice

  • Hypercafienated
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5082
  • Karma: 0
  • Ride In Paradise Cabo, Don and Ernie
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2013, 02:42:17 AM »
Agreed.
Even cheap stainless expensive.

 Methinks its the very time consuming polishing of the stainless that is the lions share of the cost.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2013, 04:38:54 AM »
I should say, I got to see the Hagon booth at the International Moto show this year.  All their stuff looks good.  It's not top end Ohlins but its good, and since they'll pretty much make or put together any size shock you need with any spring rate and adjustable damping available at a very reasonable price, well, I see lots of Hagon on my future bikes.  It always seems to be a hassle to find the right size replacement shock if your bike is not a top end model or you don't want to drop $1k. 

Scott
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 04:43:43 AM by Ducati Scotty »

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3555
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2013, 02:41:12 PM »
I've been thinking about upgrading the shocks on my '58 Trailblazer sometime this summer.  Does anyone know if they make the Hagons for my bike?  I'm sure there can't be too much of a difference in them.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2013, 05:31:01 PM »
Just call up Dave Quinn Motorcycles.  You just need dimensions (length and bushing sizes) and then can make you one up.  They'll also ask about your riding so they can give you the right spring rate.  Very good folks, they'll be getting my business for years to come.

Scott

kammersangerin

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2013, 05:50:12 PM »
Not to be a downer on Dave Quinn, but I have been using Hagon USA. I have found them very responsive, and when I first approached Quinn, he did not have what I wanted and it would take 6 weeks to get them in from the UK.

If you are on the West Coast, you may prefer the as an option. But they build to spec and give free swap outs as well, covering the shipping. I just exercised it and my neighbor is replacing the 16kg springs with softer ones.

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2013, 06:16:44 PM »
Sounds like either choice will get what you need.  Always good to have options.

Scott

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2013, 11:41:22 AM »
i've been running the shocks for a while now and i think i went a bit light on the damper side.
on good roads everything is fine but on the bad ones where plenty of bumps are a hazard they bottom out now and again.
i've since adjusted them to their firmest setting but it still happens.  :(


2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

Ducati Scotty

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Karma: 0
  • 2010 Teal C5
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2013, 02:02:19 PM »
Maybe try the next spring up?  It's an easy swap.

Scott

The_Rigger

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Karma: 0
  • Mom Always Liked You Better...
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2013, 09:12:57 PM »
Yay!  According to UPS, my Hagons were delivered to my housekeeper's place this afternoon!  I know what I'm doing the first day I get home from this tour...  8)
-Dave
2012 C5 Special
Central Michigan, USA (when I'm not working somewhere else)

wildbill

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 847
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2013, 11:41:01 PM »
hi scotty
good idea i might put that one to dave and see what happens
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery -awaiting pick-up

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

Amsters

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2013, 06:29:18 PM »
Just an update on the softer springs for the OE shock from Hitchcocks that I fitted.

I've covered about 1000mls on some pretty rough roads since fitting.  These OE shocks now work fine, much softer than the before but not too soft.

I'm 170lb and one up I'm running on the second preload notch. I had a pillion on around the same weight as me and I had to put it on the max preload (4th notch). If your combined weight is greater than this (340lb) I think you'd need to put the original springs back on :)

Just for reference:

The OE shock springs are 18kg/cm.

The replacements from Hitchcocks are 13.5kg/cm which sounds kinda soft but remember the OE shocks are pretty heavily damped.

The Hitchcocks part no. is 200043, cost is about $40 plus shipping.

Overall it's a cheap alternative to the Hagons.

cheers - thanks again for all the advice.