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Author Topic: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs  (Read 3761 times)

GSS

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2012, 01:58:53 AM »
sounds good, keen to hear the end results. mine are in transit should arrive from the usa sometime this week

16kg ride report.....did a little run in the rain today and tried to hit known rough spots and a couple of bumpy railroad crossings.....absolute perfection.  Handling is unchanged compared to 18kg, but the stiffness in the ride is gone.  My back is a lot happier and seat feels comfy once again on the softest setting.  The 18kg was way too stiff even with a pillion rider.  With all due respect to Bare and Will, I would probably recommend no more than 18kg for heavier folks and 16kg as a "standard" for everyone else.
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2010 C5 - Teal
It's a Jeep thing......you wouldn't understand.

wildbill

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2012, 02:03:09 AM »
great info. hope mine arrive today
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery - upgrades and work in progress

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

Amsters

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2013, 09:04:28 AM »
Hi folks, Newbie here so bear with...

I'm a Brit on a US forum looking for advice on my Indian made Bullet   ;D

You've gotta laugh........haha

I have the same issue as you guys, my bikes a Bullet Electra Efi (G5 in the US?). I love it to bits but the suspension beating me up good.  I've changed the fork oil to ATF and thats sorted the front but now I'm on to the rear springs. At the moment I'm on the standard kit which in my case is a pair of Endurance gas shocks which seem pretty well constructed so I don't really want to replace them. The springs however are monsters. I've measured the spring rate by compressing  one in a pillar drill with a wiegh scale under the spring. At 1" of compression I read 45kg. At 2" compression I read 89kg!! and then there's two of them! I reckon these bikes are spung to go 4 up over the Himalayas  ;D

My weight is 78 kg (170lb) and I can see from the above discussion that the 16kg/90lb springs are liked.  I'm getting confused on spring rates though - does the 16kg/90lb spring you refer to mean 16kg/90lb per 1" compression?  If it does that means I'm derating the spring rate by almost 70% ?  Does this sound right?

Any advice welcome.

Oh!! I checked the weigh scales and they are accurate to about 1kg in 80.

BTW. Hitchcocks have a 'softer' pair of springs for the G5 EFI in their new 2013 catalog - sadly they don't show the spring rate, so I rang them and found the don't show it cos they don't know it.....  great!



mattsz

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 09:33:24 AM »
16kg ride report.....did a little run in the rain today and tried to hit known rough spots and a couple of bumpy railroad crossings.....absolute perfection.  Handling is unchanged compared to 18kg, but the stiffness in the ride is gone.  My back is a lot happier and seat feels comfy once again on the softest setting.  The 18kg was way too stiff even with a pillion rider.  With all due respect to Bare and Will, I would probably recommend no more than 18kg for heavier folks and 16kg as a "standard" for everyone else.

Dave Quinn has made recommendations for these guys based on discussions with them re. their riding weight and habits, which these guys have been most happy with.  So, with the idea that you've gotta start somewhere, I took Dave's advice and ordered 18kg springs.  I ride at about 175lb with fairly light weight saddle bags occasionally added.  Haven't installed them yet, but will do soon in the next couple of weeks.

Problem is, how do I know without trying both?  This is my first bike, so I've got absolutely nothing to compare it to, except the factory shocks...

wildbill

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2013, 12:48:31 PM »
i tried both and the 16kg was a better ride
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery - upgrades and work in progress

2004 mazda-speed miata
2001 bmw z3 2.2

mattsz

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2013, 04:13:28 PM »
You guys who like the 16kg springs, either at first go or after exchanging for the 18's (GSS, Wildbill, WillW)... would you mind terribly if I asked you for a ballpark figure of what you and your gear weigh?

1 Thump

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2013, 04:36:43 PM »
I wonder how a sprung solo seat changes this calculation.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2013, 05:38:27 PM »
The sprung solo seat doesn't change things all that much.

I have no idea what the numbers in those spring rates mean, and I know a fair bit about spring rates.  They are a porgressively wound spring unless you get the very stiffest ones which are straight rate.  Don't worry too much about what they mean, just go with what others are having good luck with.  I weigh 220# and I'm happy with the 18kg springs set in the middle of three preload settings.  I'm guessing 16kg may be better for you since you're lighter, unless you carry passengers a lot.

Being in the UK I doubt you're going to buy from Dave Quinn here in the US but e-mail them anyway.  Explain that people here are raving about their service and you'd like their recommendation for spring rate even though you'll purchase locally in the UK.  I'm betting they'll still lend a hand.

Scott

barenekd

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2013, 06:38:01 PM »
Quote
I took Dave's advice and ordered 18kg springs.  I ride at about 175lb with fairly light weight saddle bags occasionally added.  Haven't installed them yet, but will do soon in the next couple of weeks.

At 175, you will have the 18kg springs on the lightest settings. If you go with the 16s you will have some adjustability. If I had to do it again, I would've gone with the 16s. I weigh about 185-190 with riding stuff on.
Bare
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2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
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GSS

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2013, 08:12:46 PM »
I am around 175-180 and 16 kg works well on the softest setting. 18 kg was plain horrendous even with a pillion rider.  I tried sitting on the pillion seat with the bike off the stand and bouncing up and down produced virtually no compression of the 18 kg springs.
2014 GT - Red
2010 C5 - Teal
It's a Jeep thing......you wouldn't understand.

Amsters

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2013, 08:45:44 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys,

I contacted Dave Quinn and he was really helpful.

The spring rates he quotes are measured in kg/cm and lb/inch.

I measured the stock RE springs ( off the shock) at 45kg per 1" of compression which converts to 18kg/cm so the stock shock has an 18kg spring. 

Has anyone tried fitting a 16kg spring to the stock shock?

I ask because I suspect the stock shock compression damping may be too heavy and as that's not able to be modified I may be better off just using Hagons.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:57:27 PM by Amsters »

Ducati Scotty

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2013, 08:58:26 PM »
I'd say don't waste your time.  The stock shocks are really cheap items and the damping on them is pretty lame.  They are very stiffly damped.  The Hagon shocks move SOOOOOOO much better.  Even people lighter than me who have ridden my bike (18kg springs on mid setting) are amazed at how much better than stock it feels.  Please, just get some Hagons.  They really are that much better.  If you don't have the coin for them right now, skip buying new springs and save until you do.

Scott

kammersangerin

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2013, 09:52:17 PM »
I actually have just put those springs on and I will strangle the next person who instantly responds with..you'll bottom out. I can't get into more detail now, but I will this evening. 

kammersangerin

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2013, 01:18:00 PM »
OK, so I am a diddle head because I didn't see the dates on the threads and read the rest of the comments.

I got my springs from Hagon USA and I am very happy with their service. Dave Quin didn;t have them in the size I wanted and I wasn't going to wait 6 weeks. However, after a long and helpful discussion, once again, someone has sold me something that wasn't really what I wanted. Generally, I do a good bit of research -from helpful places like this forum - and go by instinct. I have the 16 springs supposedly at 90/120 at the lowest setting. I weigh 115. I will be about 105 by this summer. They settle maybe a half inch with the bike, and not even that once I sit on it. For me, they are still quite hard, and if people who weigh 175 are happy with them, it shows how much weight I could carry in my saddle bags before it got comfy enough for me. There is still three inches of clearance under the rear wheel with 11.5 inch springs, and the spring gets harder as is compresses. From now on I will just go one softer or shorter than I am recommended by the sales people.

I snapped about the warning on bottoming out because, well, I have been warned and warned about that over the years, and it's never happened. Not even close, and I have relegated to being beaten to death. I wish I had just done this on my Vespa - with over 4 inches of clearance, and seen if that was enough.

I am going to ride the bike a bit more to try them, but I expect they will be going back, for either softer springs that are really for my weight, or for the shorter shock height I wanted. The dealer had them at 11 inches, so there is no reason why I shouldn't.

Good luck to you.


barenekd

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Re: hagon twin shocks with 16kg/90lb springs
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2013, 07:00:35 PM »
The problem with changing shock heights is that it changes the steering geometry. Lowering the rear end will slow down the steering and make it a bit heavier. Some people would never really notice the difference. It depends on your riding style. If you are one who never really pushes the handling aspect of the bike, you won't have a problem.
As far as bottoming goes, you can always go to a higher aspect ratio tire and that can give you more fender clearance if needed. A pair of Pirelli MT66s for instance will give you nearly 1/2" more clearance. And they work very well. At 105 pounds, You should probably got even lighter than 16 on the springs if they're available. They use the same shocks no matter what springs you put on.
As for the stock shock, the damping on them is hopelessly hard. I'm not sure they move even with the spring off! ;)
My riding buddy, Jack, thought they were OK, but he weighs a whole lot more than I. However his story changed when he broke his stock ones and he replaced them with Hagons!
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com