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Author Topic: Clutch plates  (Read 1954 times)

mrunderhill1975a

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Clutch plates
« on: September 26, 2012, 02:38:15 AM »
I just purchased a pricey clutch from a well known supplier.  The clutch arrived fully assembled including the center, basket, steel plates and friction discs.  However as I was assembling the unit I noticed they had not given me two dished steel plates, they substituted a flat plate for one dished plate.  The steel plate nearest the gearbox was a flat plate instead of a "dished" plate with a raised center.  On further examination, all the friction plates were the 23 "cell" type rather than one 23 "cell" and three 4 "cell" plates.

Is the flat plate nearest to the gearbox going to cause me a problem?  Is there a reason the friction discs should vary in the number of friction "cells"?

Blltrdr

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 04:05:15 AM »
It sounds like a 5 speed clutch pack. The 5 speed pack is heavily segmented on all friction plates. Yes you need two dished metal plates. Hitchcock's sells a heavy segmented friction disk (4 spd pack) that I am running on my 5 speed. The stock 5 spd clutch pack is the upgrade for the stock 4 speed pack.
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AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 05:42:17 AM »
No, you don't need a rear dished plate.  I have the same clutch pack on my 5spd.  As long as the rearmost steel plate engages the splines on the clutch hub, you're fine.

I was concerned about it, too, but the dealer showed me that it's how they come from the factory.

Blltrdr

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 06:45:13 AM »
No, you don't need a rear dished plate.  I have the same clutch pack on my 5spd.  As long as the rearmost steel plate engages the splines on the clutch hub, you're fine.

I was concerned about it, too, but the dealer showed me that it's how they come from the factory.

When did they change the design? Where did you buy your clutch pack? Never seen a factory clutch pack without the dished plates before. Who is the dealer you refer to? Surely don't want to lead someone down the wrong path. Please substantiate your claim with more info for the members here.
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
1992 Kawasaki ZG 1200 Voyager XII
1977 Yamaha XS 360-2D (Cafe Project)

AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 07:43:17 AM »
When did they change the design? Where did you buy your clutch pack? Never seen a factory clutch pack without the dished plates before. Who is the dealer you refer to? Surely don't want to lead someone down the wrong path. Please substantiate your claim with more info for the members here.

Royal Enfield dealer in Secunderabad, Hyderabad.  Parts guy's name is Siva.  Call 'em.  I can't vouch for him being correct, of course.  Nor am I an expert in when and how RE has changed designs.  But I know what I see, and it's a flat rear plate which fully engages the splines on my particular clutch hub.

Been running it just fine, but hey, if you wanna find a dished plate, be my guest.

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 10:43:01 PM »
Secunderabad, Hyderabad????
Those are the "Twin Cities" of India in the Pesware Province, are they not?

I purchased my clutch with the flat innermost plate from a well know supplier that rhymes with Menfieldgear.   

The flat plate creeped me out, so I substituted a spare dished plate for the flat one.  The clutch has been slipping a bit, so I may try the flat plate if the slipping does not resolve itself soon.

AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 01:06:41 AM »
It's in Andhra Pradesh, but yup, India.

Peshawar is in Pakistan on that side of the Khyber Pass.  Don't ask me how I know...

There is an unrelated Hyderabad in Pakistan, as well.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 01:44:10 AM by AgentX »

ace.cafe

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 01:18:27 AM »
IMO, if you don't have the dished plate in the innermost position, then it cannot contact the friction material riveted to the clutch basket, and thus you are lacking contact on half of that innermost metal plate.

I have never seen any Bullet clutch that didn't have dished plates inner and outer.
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AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 01:43:22 AM »
Had no slipping whatsoever on mine, and I've seen others like mine in the box which are the same. 

Can't say much more than that; I assumed maybe there were different clutch hubs that required different packs.  I don't see why it wouldn't engage the friction material on the inner basket.  It's flat against it with full contact.  When I have the basket apart I'll take some photos.

AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2012, 02:45:54 AM »
Think I should have the primary apart today or tomorrow--will try to get some pics for you.

AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2012, 04:51:48 PM »
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/MikesBikes/?action=view&current=MVI_3157.mp4

Video of the clutch disassembled.  Let me know what you think; maybe what I have is the wrong setup, or something you've never seen.

ace.cafe

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2012, 06:47:33 PM »
Okay, I have a clutch sitting here in my lap right now.
If you look at the lining of the basket with the rivets in it, if that is new, it sits about a half-mm above the level of the circlip around the clutch hub.
It will work if it's all new and unworn, up to the point where the half-mm of wear on the riveted lining gets below the level of the clutch hub circlip, and then the plate won't contact the lining in the clutch basket properly anymore, and there will be a warping action going on when the clutch is clamped on to the plates. There won't be full contact on the basket lining material anymore. The flat plate at the back of the stack there will get warped. You won't be able to adjust your clutch correctly.

I also checked the parts book, and there is nothing in there about any model  using a flat plate at the back of the stack.
Whoever sold you these parts and fed you the line about them being correct was acting in ignorance, or just wanted to sell you what he had.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 07:23:51 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2012, 09:19:41 PM »
Just to add that it is equally important to have the second dished plate facing inwards, behind the outside friction plate, as a flat one could drop off the end of the centre when the clutch is lifted [if that is the case here]
 B.W.

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 12:38:16 AM »
The video shows the exact clutch I recieved from Menfieldgear in Sept 2012.  Note the holes drilled into basket...no holes drilled in my original clutch basket that came with my 1999 bullet.  I will check the original clutch center and and see how far the grooves are cut into the clutch center.

I know one thing for sure, if you put the inside plate with the raised center toward the gearbox, it will distroy the clutch.

AgentX

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Re: Clutch plates
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 01:16:48 AM »
Okay, I have a clutch sitting here in my lap right now.
If you look at the lining of the basket with the rivets in it, if that is new, it sits about a half-mm above the level of the circlip around the clutch hub.
It will work if it's all new and unworn, up to the point where the half-mm of wear on the riveted lining gets below the level of the clutch hub circlip, and then the plate won't contact the lining in the clutch basket properly anymore, and there will be a warping action going on when the clutch is clamped on to the plates. There won't be full contact on the basket lining material anymore. The flat plate at the back of the stack there will get warped. You won't be able to adjust your clutch correctly.

I also checked the parts book, and there is nothing in there about any model  using a flat plate at the back of the stack.
Whoever sold you these parts and fed you the line about them being correct was acting in ignorance, or just wanted to sell you what he had.

Thanks, Tom-

It's easy enough to get a dished plate, I'm sure, so I can do that.  Obviously, you can see from the video, that wear was something I thought about once I looked at the innards more critically.

But I also want to check the depth on the rivets.  I think, if I am recalling correctly, that wear on the friction material would bring the innermost plate into contact with the rivets themselves before it gets to the depth of the iron ring holding the hub to the basket.  That would make the dish of the plate somewhat irrelevant.

Underhill, nice to hear I'm not totally insane...sorry to hear about your experience, though.