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Author Topic: Ethanol in Fuel  (Read 769 times)

mrunderhill1975a

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Ethanol in Fuel
« on: September 29, 2012, 09:20:22 PM »
We have discussed this previously, but the problems seem to be getting worse on my1999 500 bike.  I put on a new fuel tap and in-line fuel filter about 3 tanks of fuel ago.  Yesterday, the bike stopped so I switched to the reserve, however, the remaining fuel would not flow to the carburettor.  When I removed the fuel filter, I found an amount of flakes, chips of rubber, and flakes of stuff that looked like flaking paint.  Total volume of sludge was approximately 1/8th thimble full.  Prior to using the ethanol (E-10) fuel my filters were always clean.  I suspect the fuel may be dissolving or flaking the fuel tap.  I will look at the filter contents again after a few tanks and let you know the results.

It is next to impossible to find non-ethanol fuel here in NV.  We are near the ID potato fields. This is getting annoying, but I may have to get new fuel filters twice  or three times between oil changes.

Does anyone in the midwest have any solutions?

ERC

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 09:26:40 PM »
Probably taking the coating off the inside of the tank. The stuff is real crap.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Bumboo

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 02:16:34 AM »
My 2000 RE does the same thing...as does my 1977 BMW, my 1986 Yamaha, and the 1972 Vespa.   I "went off" in an earlier post regarding the problems we see daily with ethanol "degraded" fuel.  I'm a dealer for a major line of outboard motors.  We get  1+ in a week (3-5+ a week during the summer) with carbs and fuel systems fouled with the by products of ethanol, mostly dissolved rubber and coatings from fuel hoses, o-rings and seals.  It costs our customers thousands in repairs.  The older models before about '08 are most prone but even the newer models are not immune.   The off-the-shelf ethanol treatments seem to help stabilize the fuel so it doesn't "phase separate" when stored but it doesn't seem to do much much about the insidious dissolving of rubber internal components and some tank coatings.  Still, I recommend using it with all ethanol fuel.  We think the Valtec brand works the best but that's only from our anecdotal experience.  Running engines and hoses dry for storage seems to delay the process.  Good luck and be sure to thank Washington for gifting us with this mess.

Ice

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 03:14:00 AM »
Asphalt is one ingredient in today's gas.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 04:36:45 AM »
What is better news is that Washington (EPA) has now OK'd E-15 over the objection of everyone in the industry without any independent testing. Even the UN is begging them to back down on the amount of farmer welfare (ooops sorry it is called ethanol now) that is mandated. Since there is a worldwide drought and corn yields are down food prices are spiking and really hurting the poor countries of the world and we are part of the problem. We will not back down. Please vote for Obama so we can get to E-20-25 and really raise food prices.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 04:39:14 AM by Kevin Mahoney »

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 02:28:02 PM »
REA #25
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ERC

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 06:20:04 PM »
Don't want to get political with you Kevin but the first state to ban the old fuel in1988 was Colorado. In 2003 all states have passed it, some states are still fighting the use of it. But the EPA clean air act is what started it and even the President can't change that. So all these problems came in before Obama was president. Now it's being sold overseas so the problem becomes more widespread. Since everything I work on is Marine related I've definitely seen my share of problems. No matter who you elect it isn't going to change in the near future.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ace.cafe

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 06:33:33 PM »
Actually, the president *could* change it, because the EPA is an executive appointed agency, and it could be disbanded by the President abolishing the agency.

And that's exactly what I think should be done. But I realize that I'm in the minority with that opinion.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 06:35:59 PM by ace.cafe »
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ERC

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2012, 06:51:20 PM »
There is a VERY SLIM possibilty the President could do it, but even then all the laws would still be on the books. Read up on it, after putting up with customer faces for years I've checked into it and my conclusion is it's here to stay until they come up with another usable fuel or additive.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 12:13:49 AM »
ERC,
I guess I did throw the political bait our there. I know better and should not have done so. You wisely and intelligently threw it back untouched. You must be a reasoned and  thoughtful person.
If we leave Obama out of this..... (I think he has failed the leadership test, nevermind his policies so I have that on the table. Probably about half of the people in the forum would disagree with me which is what makes this a great country).

Coming from a Corn state I think I can say with some authority that food grain based ethanol is a hoax and a boondoggle  for the tax payers. The only people that make out on this are the farmers (think Cargil, ADM etc, not Nora and Fred down the road). The fact that it's use is mandated to the degree that it is, is a testament to a corrupt congress.

Regardless of where you stand politically, the fact is that there is a worldwide grain shortage that is worse than even some analyists know. As bizarre as it may seem, on the side I have been involved in buying corn and soybeans for use in fish food in SE Asia and have gotten some recent lessons in the subject. Because of the shortage there is just not enough to go around. The real problem is that there are not any good substitutes for those grains at present, at least none that are currently available in any quantity. The prices are beyond belief right now and are going to get worse. The bottom line is that most of the world cannot afford the current price which affects the poor people of the world (most of the worlds population) deeply. Because of the mandates to use more ethanol in the US the problem is made much worse. The UN is begging us to help avoid a worldwide food crisis - good short article that explains it http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/10/us-ethanol-united-nations-idUSBRE8790CW20120810
We will not budge. We can argue about who controls the USDA (who I think is actually the decision maker here) but the facts remain there is a very real crisis coming and it is not overblown.

Now we have been totally diverted from the initial subject. While I think ethanol is really a bad deal for our country, we do not see much trouble with it on the RE's. In fact maybe no trouble. We seem to see more trouble with specific localities that are using God knows what in the fuel. There is not much gasoline left in gasoline, much of it is chemicals for various uses. Many manufacturers are squawking about E-15 and they may have reason to. I know with 100% certainty that engine/motorcycle manufacturers in Brazil have a lot of trouble adapting their vehicle's to run on that countries high alcohol levels. I guess they can do it but it is tough. I know this first hand from two huge motorcycle manufacturers that I am involved with entering that market.

Answer to the question - Don't worry about the ethanol, it is there and you can do nothing about it. Keep fuel off of your paint.

ERC

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2012, 12:26:12 AM »
Kevin you nailed it on that one.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

baird4444

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Re: Ethanol in Fuel
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2012, 01:10:01 AM »
and lets not forget about big oil profiting
as well. They are substituting 10 to 15% of their oil product with one that they can buy much cheaper than the cost of the gasoline. Call it filler.....  they are charging us for a gallon of what is in reality only 90% gasoline; the rest is a low cost filler increasing the profit margin greatly on at least 10% of that gallon. Multiply this by the millions and millions of gallons and it means PROFIT!!

Sorry for the rant but I managed a high volume gas station for 7 years and my local owner was also the supplier..... 
the suppliers are the one's that are really raking it in on this.
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