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Author Topic: E85  (Read 1862 times)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: E85
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2012, 01:36:22 PM »
It's just the silliness of it that bugs us.  Using petroleum and coal powered vehicles, equipment, and plants to grow corn and process it into alcohol.  The best figure I've heard is that we get a 20% increase in overall energy.  I'm guessing that's a best case scenario.  No doubt alcohol is a cleaner burning fuel than petroleum but the way we are trying to produce and use it is not a viable energy plan.  It may have started out as a sincere effort to produce alternative fuels but at this point it's just a public relations dog and pony show for politicians to gain favor with the states that vote first in our primary elections.

You won't hear me complain about the price of fuel in the US, I know what the rest of the world pays.

Scott

Arizoni

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Re: E85
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 07:55:24 PM »
Cost does come into my dislike for alcohol fuels and it is a real concern.

Because alcohol only has about 2/3 of the energy per gallon, people using it as a fuel can expect to see their fuel mileage drop 30 percent.
The 75 mpg or 32 Kilometers/liter our Royal Enfields deliver will drop to 50 mpg or 21 Km/ltr.
Of course, the tax per gallon will remain unchanged so in effect the Government will see a 33 percent increase in the tax revenue it gets.  (I wonder why the Government doesn't tell us about this major benefit?)

There is also the issue with the nature of alcohol.  It loves water.
It can suck the moisture right out of the air and this added water can easily corrode the metal parts in the fuel system.  It also can break down the rubber and plastic parts it touches causing them to fail.
Sounds like a neat "make jobs" tool until one realizes that they will have to pay to have those parts replaced by the mechanic.

As I mentioned, I consider the use of alcohol as a motor fuel to be a giant rip off of anyone who is forced to use the stuff.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Ice

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Re: E85
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 09:57:12 PM »
 It's not just a rip off at the pump its a tax payer funded rip off from the beginning to end.
 
 The hefty tax payer funded grants, subsidies and tax breaks to produce the stuff before a single molecule of alcohol even gets within a hundred miles of the gasoline that is going to be diluted with the stuff boggles the mind.

 That's before the pump.

 On the nozzle end of the pump roughly sixty cents of the cost of every gallon is for the 12.8 ounces of alcohol used to cut the fuel.

 Add the costs of upgraded materials in newer vehicles that alcohol requires and you pay more on the car lot.




Forget about monetary costs for a moment.

 How many gallons of water does it take to irrigate corn to maturity and then turn it into fuel ?
 
 Does the sum of the energy consumed in the production and distribution of the alcohol equal the energy content of the finished product ?

 Is the carbon produced in the process really less than the amount of carbon reduction at the motorists tail pipe ?

I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

trimleyman

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Re: E85
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 01:09:37 AM »
Ice. The answer to you question is a resounding no. There is no logical justification for the production of alcohol fuels from food stocks. If it were from waste then that might be more realistic but it is not. Even hydrogen as an alternative fuel is as yet not cost effective.
Now 2011 Royal Enfield G5 and just added 2014 Continental GT
Then:-
1978 Ducati 900 GTES
1969 Ducati 350 Desmo Racer
1972 Mototrans Ducati 250 24 Horas
1965 Triumph Tiger Cub 200
1967 BSA Bantum

Desi Bike

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Re: E85
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 04:05:26 PM »
From my work at one of the big three auto makers in north america, I can state that use of E85 fuel will void your warranty if the vehicle is not designed to use it. The vehicles that can use the stuff will have a yellow fuel cap and be labled as able to use E85. Avoid the fuel at all costs in our bikes and everything else that takes fuel other than vehicles designed yo use it.
میں نہیں چاہتا کہ ایک اچار
میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

AwL

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Re: E85
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2012, 03:38:34 AM »
According to US Dept of Energy Alternative Fuels Data Center "E85 is a high-level gasoline-ethanol blend containing 51% to 83% ethanol, depending on geography and season".    Fortunately around here  (Washington state) the blend has been only "E10" which is 10% ethanol.  I've been adding Sta-Bil Marine Formula "Ethanol treatment" additive anyway, not knowing whether or not it acutally helps....   Recently the pumps at the local  feed store have ethanol-free gas.  To find ethanol-free gas go to www.puregas.org for list of stations in US & Canada.   Al

saint45

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Re: E85
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2012, 05:55:28 PM »
While we are on the subject. Ive always used 91 in my bikes. Is it overkill?
THX

Ducati Scotty

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Re: E85
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2012, 06:26:48 PM »
Probably.  I run regular with no issues.  But like picking a brand/type of oil, if it makes you sleep better, no harm done :)

Scott

mattsz

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Re: E85
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2012, 12:42:39 AM »
To find ethanol-free gas go to www.puregas.org for list of stations in US & Canada.   Al

Try "http://pure-gas.org/"

Very interesting.  In Maine, it's all marinas and airports.  And all 91 octane...

The_Rigger

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Re: E85
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2012, 03:02:29 PM »
Fuel is so cheap over there I can't believe you're worried!

We'd like to keep it that way.
-Dave
2012 C5 Special
Central Michigan, USA (when I'm not working somewhere else)

The_Rigger

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Re: E85
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2012, 03:09:40 PM »
My car requires at least 91 octane unleaded, and I've been burning top-tier gas in it since Day One (Shell 93 octane "V-Power," FWIW)... I'll only put top-tier gas in Fiona, too, and never anything more than 10% ethanol (and then, only because we can't get uncut gasoline where I live).  This new rule about the 4-gallon-minimum sale is a trifle annoying, too, to say the least. I don't buy anything from gas stations that sell 15% gasohol.
-Dave
2012 C5 Special
Central Michigan, USA (when I'm not working somewhere else)

GreenMachine

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Re: E85
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2012, 04:01:57 PM »
The_Rigger: BMW recommends top tier fuel for their vehicles and I suspect other manufacturing companies fall into that category (High performance Engines)..Interesting how the ethanol is not mixed at the refinery but at the distribution points to cut down possible water absorption issues (So I have read)..The problem is how its mixed and is the ratio correct as indicated at the pump..Some states are not required to even show the amount on the pump. I don't believe the stations are responsible for improperly mixed fuels. It is my understanding that this ultimately falls back on the users and fuel producers. The auto industry is not responsible if your vehicle develops problems due to inaccurate ethanol/gas ratios. I think the sticker really means "No more than 10%"...
I notice that seafoam and few other products use a ethanol base in their product which can raise the percentage even higher in your tank..Chevron fuel and stabil treatment products supposely do not and it's a mix bag on some of the others..The article suggest that if you were at 10%, you would in theory being adding more ethanol in the tank...Interesting read on PureGas website..
Oh Magoo you done it again