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Author Topic: Big news coming from RE this weekend  (Read 3454 times)

72westie

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Big news coming from RE this weekend
« on: November 09, 2012, 07:19:54 PM »
There is a big event for RE dealer's this weekend in Dallas TX and there is a pretty neat announcement coming soon. Hopefully someone will grab a picture and put it up here once they see it in person. Wish I was able to make the show to check it out first hand!

Adam
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 08:05:03 PM »
CafeRacer ?

ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 06:23:27 PM »
Waiting patiently for the Big News!

I hope it is reported here!
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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GSS

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 06:29:44 PM »
Sure looks like it. Several sites have recent reports on this.....reportedly for Rs. 160,000 in India......which is about US $3000.  It will be interesting to see what they want for it here.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/royal-enfields-2013-cafe-racer/21716.html
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 06:37:19 PM »
Sure looks like it. Several sites have recent reports on this.....reportedly for Rs. 160,000 in India......which is about US $3000.  It will be interesting to see what they want for it here.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/royal-enfields-2013-cafe-racer/21716.html

Well, I like the look of it.
I thought they would announce something else. We already knew this was coming.
It would be nice to hear some details about the "tuned engine" and what that's all about.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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barenekd

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 07:10:52 PM »
Looks like a long stretch from the seat to the bars. Somewhat reminiscent of the early Triumph Thruxtons.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 02:51:43 AM »
Nah, not the cafe racer. It's the new line of Royal Enfield lawn mowers about to make a big splash!

motomataya

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 05:10:31 PM »
The bike looks a lot like the early pictures. Motor is 535cc. Paoli shocks not Olins but they look good and should work better then anything used now. Seat height is a bit high about 32" I believe, but it's narrow so that helps. Weighs about 40 pounds less then the C5. Seating position is not so demanding as modern sportbikes. The bars aren't to low and the pegs aren't to high. A little on the small side if your much over 6 feet.  They are keeping the price less then a grand more then the C5, but at this time no set price. The bike really is beautiful, unfortunately we won't see them on show floors for a few months. I don't have a picture to post yet but I'll work on that.

ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2012, 05:13:20 PM »
The bike looks a lot like the early pictures. Motor is 535cc. Paoli shocks not Olins but they look good and should work better then anything used now. Seat height is a bit high about 32" I believe, but it's narrow so that helps. Weighs about 40 pounds less then the C5. Seating position is not so demanding as modern sportbikes. The bars aren't to low and the pegs aren't to high. A little on the small side if your much over 6 feet.  They are keeping the price less then a grand more then the C5, but at this time no set price. The bike really is beautiful, unfortunately we won't see them on show floors for a few months. I don't have a picture to post yet but I'll work on that.

Thanks for the info!

Any word about the motor, other than 535cc?
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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motomataya

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2012, 11:47:56 PM »
A few more horsepower. They report a nice bump in midrange with a little more top end power. No changes in the external look of the motor that I could tell. No answer on the throttle body size. Also no answer on valve size or gearing.

GSS

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2012, 01:01:16 AM »
Thanks Marty. Will look forward to seeing the photos and hopefully the real thing soon. We were definitely running low on topics to discuss in the UCE section!
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72westie

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2012, 03:01:51 PM »
The info I had about the announcement didn't really give any specifics on the bike. It was mainly a letter about the unveiling and about pre-ordering them. Hopefully they throw up a picture or two of it, as that link appears to be using the pictures from the January New Delhi Auto Expo show.

These are only going to be built to order, so I assume there will be a wait to get one when you order one. There are a couple of different lower seats also being introduced. They were designed by Dave Perewitz. There was no price listed for the Cafe Racer.
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motomataya

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2012, 06:27:01 PM »
Hope this comes through

72westie

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2012, 06:31:49 PM »
Not a bad looking bike (Huge picture though!)  ;)

Any word on price yet?
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motomataya

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2012, 07:06:41 PM »
A little over $7000 but the price has not been set.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 07:25:17 PM »
Looks nice, always has. Check out the skinny seat on the C5.

boggy

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2012, 07:47:50 PM »
The only thing I can tell that is different from when this was shown in January is that little red seat cowl and the unfortunate change of the handlebars.  I've never liked the high-mounted clip-ons. They look odd.

The January model's clip-ons look right on they money.

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Royal-Enfield-Cafe-Racer-UCE500-at-the-2012-Auto-Expo-3.jpg

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ROVERMAN

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 08:46:46 PM »
I kinda like the raised clip-on's, being the old fart that i am. Nice looking bike, and kudo's to RE for sticking so close to the concept.
Robert.

boggy

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2012, 10:32:02 PM »
You old farts and your backs that don't bend  ::)  ;D
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Ragmas

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 11:15:17 PM »
Mmmmmm... rear disc brake.

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GSS

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2012, 03:30:00 AM »
This is a tiny bit of a let down compared to the New Delhi concept. Handlebars and the midget cowl behind the seat are unattractive.........the chrome and polished parts seem to have been spray painted silver.......fortunately nothing that we can't " fix"! Looks good overall, but has lost the original sparkle that could have sold a lot of bikes.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2012, 03:36:38 AM »
This is a tiny bit of a let down compared to the New Delhi concept. Handlebars and the midget cowl behind the seat are unattractive.........the chrome and polished parts seem to have been spray painted silver.......fortunately nothing that we can't " fix"! Looks good overall, but has lost the original sparkle that could have sold a lot of bikes.

My thought exactly...gotta leave something for the aftermarket.

AgentX

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2012, 04:40:02 AM »
Better than I'd expected; expected them to put high-rise tubular bars on it.

I might have to see if I can source that front end before I leave India...but I doubt it.

72westie

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2012, 03:24:23 PM »
I am guessing that the chrome and polished parts were painted to help keep the cost reasonable. If they are calling for just over 7K or so, I can see them selling. If it was 8K+, I would be suprised it they sold many.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2012, 05:14:33 PM »
I still think it looks nice.
Maybe the 535 kit will be useful for me to use with my attempts to mod this UCE beast.
I hope.
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boggy

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2012, 05:42:25 PM »
Looks like the passenger pegs are missing, but supports are there. Hopefully folks who want to ride 2-up can put another seat on there, as much as I like that saddle.

So was this officially the big news? Or might we find out more from RE this week at EICMA?
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72westie

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2012, 06:30:04 PM »
This was the big news that I was talking about, I don't know if there is anything else.
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GSS

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2012, 01:01:25 AM »
Marty,
Do you have any photo of the front of the bike? Thanks.

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motomataya

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2012, 08:58:27 PM »
Here are a couple more

boggy

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2012, 09:38:07 PM »
You think it's tough to go out on a standard Bullet without drawing a crowd... the riders of this beauty are going to get MOBBED.

I really dig the frame.
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barenekd

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2012, 09:46:19 PM »
I talked to my dealer yesterday. He said the show bike was still preproduction. The real one will be available presumably in July as a 2014 model. He says the guys will be at the IMS Show here in December, but didn't say whether the bike would or not. He did say it's 40 lbs lighter than the current models.
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GSS

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2012, 12:40:24 AM »
Here are a couple more
Marty,
Thanks for the photos. It is a very nice bike that has been done a disservice by whoever decided to slap on the silver paint to save a little expense on chrome.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 02:07:16 AM by GSS »
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2012, 02:09:19 AM »
I like it.  I know that it's supposed to look like a Continental GT but it sure does look like an italian racer from the 60's!  The red tank and silver paint on fenders and bits was a paint scheme used by ducati and MV Agusta and others.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2012, 05:00:50 AM »
Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I like the red, black and silver on the bike.
In my opinion, chroming all of those silver parts would look to gaudy for a Cafe Racer.
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GlennF

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2012, 05:02:07 AM »
A carby would have been nice.

AgentX

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2012, 06:33:34 AM »
Indian chrome is terrible, and kind of out of place on a cafe racer IMHO.

Indian polished aluminum, is, well, polished aluminum and it's done very nicely and inexpensively.

But all in all, this bike is somewhat like a moden Camaro or Mustang to me.  Neat and slightly nostalgic, with much updated technology, but with the rough edge well-blunted, without the  presence of the real thing. 

It's kind of neither here nor there.  I think I'd rather have a real old bike (in design and manufacture, if not chronology)  or a real modern bike with the benefits that come with it.

ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2012, 02:22:15 PM »
I had to come to terms with that "retro" thing.
They just didn't have any choice, because they couldn't make the old engine meet Euro Standards for emissions anymore. And as such, they had to have something new that would.
Unfortunately that severed the umbilical to the past, and now it's something new. I'm trying to embrace the new, because that's what is going to be the future for at least a while.  It does have even more similarities to the old, under the surface, than many of us might even think.
But, we can't get the old engine back in the new bikes because of regulations.

Now, my own bike is always going to be the old type. But the new bikes deserve respect too, and I'm doing it for the owners who have them. Who knows? Maybe these UCE bikes will be able to really kick some ass when they get the right mods. I look at all new bikes as a "starting point", and not a finished work.

And a nice powerful single in that Cafe Racer platform might be pretty nice indeed!
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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GreenMachine

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2012, 03:14:20 PM »
When I saw the subject line I was thinking that the 700 cc twin was coming out...Red and black always did look good on a cafe racer..Agree with 72Westie, sounds like cost out the door will be closer to 8 and inching closer to the 9 k mark out the door .Be curious to know the production numbers geared towards the export market vice domestic sales..Ace:
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2012, 03:18:57 PM »
Ace: I know how u feel about always having the old bike but I can live with it....Man I hate it when Nortons does a update when I'm typing a message..It really is a cpu hog and makes me hit the wrong key...
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2012, 04:18:33 PM »
I'm thinking that they might use this frame for the twin.

But now there's the talk that the twin might not come out.
And now we hear that they have a joint venture with Polaris/Victory.
I don't know what to think about them, so I'll try not to.

Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Blltrdr

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2012, 04:24:48 PM »
A carby would have been nice.

You can the EFI to a carb. I know Hitchcock's sells an Amal conversion kit for the UCE.
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72westie

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2012, 05:37:24 PM »
Pictures look nice. Dual Horns!
2001 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Race Bike:
2008 Ahrma Classic 60's #1 Plate
2009 AMA Vintage 50's #1 Plate
2010 AMA Vintage 50's #1 Plate
http://www.bgmotorcycle.com

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2012, 12:59:56 AM »
Pictures look nice. Dual Horns!

I find that feature odd on a "cafe" bike, but I can personally vouch for the value of really loud horns on Indian roads.  It's sad you have to contribute to the chaos and noise pollution, but when in Rome, it's best to stay alive...

The bar-end mirrors will be really polarizing among Indians, too, but if they're actually on the machine in a showroom, I think those inclined to get this bike will think they're cool.

I had them on my first Bullet and people were mesmerized by them (and wouldn't stop fucking with them incessantly while it was parked) but a good portion immediately sought to warn me that they were dangerous or going to be ripped off immediately by a passing autorickshaw.  Which is true, but that's why I got cheap ones...I considered them kind of a sacrificial indicator that I was riding stupidly in traffic.


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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2012, 02:06:17 AM »
Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I like the red, black and silver on the bike.
In my opinion, chroming all of those silver parts would look to gaudy for a Cafe Racer.
Jim,
I am not into gaudy chrome either. Polished aluminum would have been nice. I am happy to see the cafe racer like everyone else.  Maybe it is just the lighting in these photos......paint/chrome/aluminum is a very minor issue.

GSS
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2012, 05:28:00 AM »
I am not trying to hijack the thread, just curious. I saw a picture of the clubman kit. It appears to me, the difference is only cosmetic. The brushed aluminum tank. can some of you speak to the differences between the cafe and clubman? Thanks in advance.
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AgentX

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2012, 06:12:35 AM »
This bike has a different frame (assumedly stiffer with probable sportier geometry) and larger-diameter fork.  Rear disc brake.

Supposedly some internal differences to the engine to make it sportier as well.

ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2012, 12:26:35 PM »
I am not trying to hijack the thread, just curious. I saw a picture of the clubman kit. It appears to me, the difference is only cosmetic. The brushed aluminum tank. can some of you speak to the differences between the cafe and clubman? Thanks in advance.

The kits for the UCE must have the fuel tank compatible with the EFI fuel pump on those bikes.
I don't know if those aluminum tanks are compatible. The aluminum tanks were originally made for the old Iron Barrel bikes, and generally could be adjusted to fit the AVL bikes.
But they all had carburetors. I don't know if the EFI pump has some requirements for the tank that are special.
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barenekd

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2012, 07:08:00 PM »
THe EFI Tanks have a 2.5-3" hole in the bottom rear on the left side of the tank at teh back for the fuel pump, and a about 1" hole on the right for the fuel low light float. consequently the rear rear of the tank is wider than the iron barrel tanks. It would be very difficult the install this stuff in the old tanks. Some of the custom Manx style tanks for wide frame Nortons may be wide enough in the back to handle this stuff, but it would still be an undertaking to mount them. It will basically amount to building new tanks to be able to install the mounting rings before the halves are welded together.
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jartist

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2012, 04:34:23 AM »
Another way around the compatibility of a non-efi tank to a uce would be to find out if an inline or in-tank pump could work with the ECU and injector. Then you could use any tank that fit on the bike.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2012, 05:57:34 AM »
Another pump would be feasible, but I don't see how it would be any easier to install.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2012, 08:41:44 PM »
Getting back to the original post, i have been looking at these pictures a lot and what strikes me as most significant is the frame. It is a classic and simple twin downtube/loop frame. And it would seem to me that this frame may be the basic frame for all R.E.s for the future, even the twin if it ever happens. If R.E. can meet the quality challenges and get the details right i think this bike may be their game changer.
  As someone mentioned earlier, the bike has the look of Italian retro stuff more than English bikes of old. I have to wonder if Mc deeb had any influence here. Just thinking out loud.
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By the way,Honda is also going back to the future with the 2013 CB1100, check it out!

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2012, 10:14:28 PM »
Yup. The CB1100 is a pretty hot looking machine.

http://www.motorstown.com/images/honda-cb1100-06.jpg

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iowarider

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2012, 01:34:40 AM »
Yup. The CB1100 is a pretty hot looking machine.

http://www.motorstown.com/images/honda-cb1100-06.jpg
I agree on that honda. I like it a lot.
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2012, 01:57:27 AM »
That is a nice bike...Honda's are great machines....
Oh Magoo you done it again

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2012, 02:43:17 AM »
Quote
Yup. The CB1100 is a pretty hot looking machine.

Can't argue that! Unfortunately, a total lack of character!
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2012, 04:32:16 PM »
I am very interested in the new RE cafe bike. I love the 60's RE Continental GT and it is interesting that the period claim was for 27hp from a 250cc single. Granted the bike didn't need to meet emission standards but you would think RE could get a bit more hp from a modern 500cc engine. I didn't buy a RE single for speed but the cafe bike will be a bit more interesting with a performance boost along with it's sporty appearance.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2012, 05:57:02 PM »
The Cafe Racer (Crusader GT) is a 535 with a bit warmer cams and a top speed in the 95mph range. Still won't do the ton.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2012, 06:23:16 PM »
It's all very interesting.
I'm just waiting and watching until we can see it perform on the road.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2012, 07:20:24 PM »
The Cafe Racer (Crusader GT) is a 535 with a bit warmer cams and a top speed in the 95mph range. Still won't do the ton.
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Removal of 40 lb of weight is equivalent to less than 2 hp. The extra 35 cc given another 1.5-2 hp. Thats less than a 4 hp gain. They better have hot cams and a flat/domed piston, cos that aint doing 95 mph.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2012, 07:47:32 PM »
Removal of 40 lb of weight is equivalent to less than 2 hp. The extra 35 cc given another 1.5-2 hp. Thats less than a 4 hp gain. They better have hot cams and a flat/domed piston, cos that aint doing 95 mph.

good point....  I've argued against the 535 upgrade as being not worth the work or ca$h layout. It's only like a 15% increase...  is it worth it? My stance has always been that by fine and super tuning your timing and carb you can do far better than a 15% increase.....
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2012, 10:08:30 PM »
I always recommend doing the external stuff like the carb and exhaust first, before doing any internal mods.
But the added displacement does bring the torque curve in a bit stronger at the lower rpms. It's one of the few things you can do to get more power at the lower rpms. Compression increase would be the other main thing.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2012, 10:26:49 PM »
How do you increase compression?
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2012, 10:44:57 PM »
How do you increase compression?

Carefully :D ... or things will break. You may also need high octane fuel additives.

Assuming your not bolting on a supercharger, compression increase is normally achieved by either modified pistons or shaving stock heads or fitting a modified head. Or some combination of the above. However you need to be careful or the valves may hit the crown of the pistons.

Not really a safe project to do at home yourself as an experiment. If you want to go that path I would PM Ace about what he can supply you as a kit.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2012, 10:47:22 PM »
Ah. Interesting. Wasn't sure if it was that type of thing or a method preventing a loss of compression do to bad seals or what not.

Thanks.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2012, 09:28:22 PM »
The AVL piston was discussed before as a bolt on way to get higher compression as it has a flat crown and the efi has a dished crown piston. To my knowledge nobody has tried it except for scooterbob.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2012, 04:28:17 PM »
What is is that makes say, a Suzuki DRZ400 single push out 40 hp while the Bullet does <20.  What are the mechanical elements that lead to that big of a difference?
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2012, 04:56:17 PM »
What is is that makes say, a Suzuki DRZ400 single push out 40 hp while the Bullet does <20.  What are the mechanical elements that lead to that big of a difference?

This is one of those questions that sounds simple enough on the surface, but has a huge complex answer.

Basically, the simple answer is that Royal Enfield doesn't even make a half-hearted effort to make horsepower. For whatever reasons, they simply don't want to make any hp with their bikes. The Japanese bikes, on the other hand, use power numbers to sell their bikes, and so they put great effort into making hp.

To start with, there is a basic equation for horsepower, which is:
hp = torque x rpm/5252
This is a true function for any engine. You take the torque reading at some rpm, and that gives you the hp output at that certain rpm.

So, we can see that rpm plays a big role, and the higher you can rev, the more hp you can make, for a given engine size.
The Japanese bikes all have short strokes, and can rev high and make high hp, because their short strokes give lower piston speeds that allow the mechanical parts to not reach their breaking limits until the rpms get very high.
On the other hand, the RE bikes have very long strokes, which give high piston speeds at lower rpms, and cannot rev as high before their mechanical parts reach breaking limits.

So, why do they have these different kinds of engines, and for what?
Well, the Japanese engines make plenty of hp, but they have to rev up to high rpms to do it. Consequently, they have poor hp output at lower rpms, because engine designs can only stretch out a powerband just so far. If you make a lot of power at high rpms, you aren't going to make much power at lower rpms. It's that simple.

So, the Japanese bikes are going to make a lot of power while they are buzzing around at the top of their rpm range, like buzzing little bees.
But, that is not really a cruiser style behavior for relaxed riding. The RE gives a long stroke with low rpm limits, and this allows it to begin the meaty part of its power band much lower in the rpms, so that you can start off from a light with some decent power and ride at moderately lower rpms with good torque and hp without revving the bike up high. It's a more relaxed riding powerband that is typical of cruiser bikes or standards.
However, since it doesn't rev up high, the numerical equation doesn't turn out with a very high number for hp, since the rpms aren't adding a lot of multiplication factor with a low revving engine. We make just as much torque, but we make it at a lower rpm, so our hp number looks lower, and it is. But we can still pull well early in the rev range with our torque production, which is something that the Japanese bikes really don't do very well.

So, in the end, it's all about what you want out of the bike, and how you like it to behave for your purposes.
The  Bullet can produce 40hp, and do it within the rev limits of our long stroke engine, but we have to modify it to do that, with mods similar to the Fireball. RE simply isn't interested in making power. It can be done, but they clearly don't want to do it.
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2012, 08:30:15 PM »
It's why Japanese thumpers don't have the character and soul of the English thumpers. They just don't feel the same, although some of them vibrate more than a Bullet!
The Hinckley Triumphs twins don't feel or sound like the old Meriden models. They have lost the character of the old bikes even though they try all kinds of tricks to get teh sound back, nothing has worked.
None of these modern machines will ever sound or feel like the old British singles and Twins
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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2012, 02:06:36 AM »
If Enfields made more power, their standards of manufacture would have to go up.  That would be a pain in the butt, and prices would go up...which would kill them in the Indian market.

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2012, 03:56:04 PM »
Makes sense Ace.  Good luck trying to get more power out of the UCE.

The cost of development/construction is also understandable.  Although if that Cafe is going to be 7k+ I'd be happy if it sat somewhere closer to 30hp, but I suppose that's just wishful thinking.  Maybe if they ever go twin, but then I imagine the price would be 8 or 9k.  That kinda scratch can get you a lot of motorcycle.

I know the modern Triumphs are not your classic British iron but I do have to admit, that Scrambler with the 2 into 1 Arrow exhaust sounds really good.
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barenekd

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2012, 06:50:09 PM »
Yup, sounds good, but definitely doesn't come close to sounding like a Meridan Triumph.
I had one with "louder than" Arrow mufflers. It sounded great, but too loud to go anywhere above about 2500 rpm! If I got outta town, it sounded great. but just as loud as a lot of Hardly Ablesons.
I traded it on on the RE. Much happier man!
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big news coming from RE this weekend
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2012, 08:10:12 PM »
Makes sense Ace.  Good luck trying to get more power out of the UCE.

The cost of development/construction is also understandable.  Although if that Cafe is going to be 7k+ I'd be happy if it sat somewhere closer to 30hp, but I suppose that's just wishful thinking.  Maybe if they ever go twin, but then I imagine the price would be 8 or 9k.  That kinda scratch can get you a lot of motorcycle.

I know the modern Triumphs are not your classic British iron but I do have to admit, that Scrambler with the 2 into 1 Arrow exhaust sounds really good.

We don't know what the Cafe Racer is going to be, yet. It looks nice.
They have said it will be 535cc, which is good for a couple hp. There has been this vague reference to "warm cams"(whatever that means), but nothing concrete, and that would mean other internal mods to suit the cams.
We will see what it is when it comes out. That's all we can do.

Regarding our UCE kit, we'll see what that can do. too.
It will all come out in the wash.
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