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Author Topic: Battery Wires  (Read 1638 times)

mattsz

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 11:54:10 PM »
Arizoni-

What's that cylindrical item that your heavy + cable runs into?  I don't got me one of them...

Arizoni

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2012, 12:50:49 AM »
That is the electric starter solenoid.
It's mounted in a rubber sleeve.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

mattsz

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2012, 02:04:14 AM »
That is the electric starter solenoid.
It's mounted in a rubber sleeve.

Huh.  I wonder where mine is?  Aren't they usually attached to the starter motor?  Maybe I need to brush up on my sprague clutch theory...

Arizoni

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 03:34:52 AM »
Find the large red wire connected to the + terminal of the battery.

Follow it.  It will lead you to the solenoid.  If you loose track of it, start at the starter motor and follow the large wire.  It will lead you to the other side of the solenoid.
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

GreenMachine

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2012, 03:37:28 PM »
I wasn't real thrilled about the way the battery cables where hooked up to my iron either..Just this past summer, I took a dremel (using the small cutting blade) , put the metal battery cover on the vice and proceeded to cut out a small section on both sides to ensure that the cover although attached wouldn't have a way to brush up against the wire/battery post connections...By doing so it also made it easier to not have the cable make such a tight turn to secure it to the posts ..I slipped a battery boot over the positive connection and tied the end of the boot with a small cable tie....It doesn't look bad and better than not having the metal battery cover and just straps...I guess for prosperity sake, I could just purchase another cover and have it lay in the Enfield spares box if I ever wanted to ensure that period correct unadulterated look.  It just got to the point  that the vibrations and fear of Mr. Sparky finalized my decision after 6 years.  Probably a overreaction but its done ..GM
Oh Magoo you done it again

barenekd

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2012, 06:29:35 PM »
Quote
Huh.  I wonder where mine is?  Aren't they usually attached to the starter motor?

Starter solenoids are seldom attached to the starter any more. Very old school. In the old days the solenoid pulled the starter gear out to engage it with the flywheel. Nowadays, they use a centrifugal clutch built into the starter, so spinning the starter forces the gear out. That allows the use of a remote solenoid.
Bare
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mattsz

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 12:04:58 AM »
Sorry for the hijack...

Starter solenoids are seldom attached to the starter any more. Very old school. In the old days the solenoid pulled the starter gear out to engage it with the flywheel. Nowadays, they use a centrifugal clutch built into the starter, so spinning the starter forces the gear out. That allows the use of a remote solenoid.
Bare

Ok, that makes sense, but in that case, is it a solenoid?  I've always thought that a solenoid, in its most basic form, was a device that, when you put electricity into its coil, a resulting magnetic field would pull, or push, on a rod or spindle or some other such actuating arm, which would physically engage or disengage some useful mechanical part...  hence the old-school (and, as far as I know, current-school in automobiles) starter solenoid "pulling the starter gear out to engage it with the flywheel".

If the spinning starter engages the engine without that device, what the heck is our "solenoid" for?  Incidentally, I found mine, aft and inboard of my battery, under the seat.  It sure isn't doing anything mechanical there...

Arizoni

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 04:13:40 AM »
Your definition of a solenoid is correct except it forgot that moving a heavy duty electrical contact is a useful mechanical part.  It's usefulness is that the contact can easily carry the large amount of current the starter motor requires.

Actually, while on the subject, the old automotive starters that had an attached solenoid also had a similar heavy duty electrical contact built into them.
When they were actuated they moved the gear into engagement with the flywheel. 
In the last little bit of this movement they engaged the electrical power to the motor.

As for the Royal Enfield, its starter is always engaged with the gear train that drives the sprag clutch.
When the engine is off and the starter soleniod sends power to the starter motor, the motor starts to run turning the gear train and the sprag clutch.
If the clutch is working properly, its sprags will lock up on the crankshaft transmitting the starter power to the crank.

When the engine starts, the crankshaft is turning faster than the sprag clutch so the sprags loose their grip.
As the electrical motor is turned off (solenoid is d-energized) the motor and its driven gear train stop moving.  The spinning crankshaft continues to "run free" under the sprags and you ride away with a smile on your face. :)
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

barenekd

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 05:25:18 AM »
Quote
Ok, that makes sense, but in that case, is it a solenoid?
If you prefer, you can call it a relay.
Bare
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mattsz

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 10:33:09 AM »
If you prefer, you can call it a relay.
Bare

You say tomato, I say tomato.  "Relay" is what I always used for that item.

Thanks guys!

singhg5

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 05:16:09 PM »
This thread has shown many interesting variations of battery position in different bikes. On my G5 the battery terminals face towards the outside - with Negative Terminal close to starter solenoid (pardon me Relay  ;)). 

Is it 'solenoid' or is it 'relay' ? From what I have read, 'Solenoid' carries much higher current required for starter motor as compared to 'Relay' which is used for smaller current devices such as lights.

Also 'Relay' may be a solid state unit without moving parts.

Perhaps it is like 'Fettuccine' vs. 'Linguini' - depends on its size.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 11:16:08 PM by singhg5 »
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TWinOKC

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2012, 12:30:08 AM »
2010  C5  Teal
Triumph Bonneville T100

gremlin

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 11:50:07 PM »
........Perhaps it is like 'Fettuccine' vs. 'Linguini' - depends on its size.......

Momma said size doesn't matter .....
1996 Trophy 1200
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1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


Ducati Scotty

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2012, 12:27:39 AM »
BTW, I found these a while ago:



Cheap, way more hearty than stock, and available at any Napa Auto.  Part #784572.

Scott

mattsz

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Re: Battery Wires
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2012, 05:20:07 PM »
BTW, I found these a while ago:

[image of battery terminal ends here]

Cheap, way more hearty than stock, and available at any Napa Auto.  Part #784572.

Scott

Do you need a special crimping tool to do a proper job of installing these?