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Author Topic: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc  (Read 3288 times)

High On Octane

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Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« on: December 01, 2012, 06:29:34 PM »
Does anyone have ANY idea how to set the timing on this bike?  Every time I started the bike for the last 2 weeks it progessively ran worse, and now it won't start at all.  I've gone through and replaced all the gaskets in the cardb and thoroughly cleaned it out.  I also put in brand new plugs and custom made new plug wires, and set the points.  When setting the points, I noticed that is no way to adjust the points plate.  It has the same ignition set up as the 1958 Constellation 700cc, NOT the SR2 ignition.  I'm getting excellent spark, but I can't get the bike even sputter a little bit.  Even when I shoot ether into the carb.  PLEASE HELP!
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

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High On Octane

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2012, 06:53:39 PM »
Here's a couple pics of the magneto.

Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

Arizoni

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2012, 09:55:03 PM »
The only thing I can think of is in order to run the engine must have four things going on.

1. Fuel.  The ether ought to meet that requirement, for a chug or two
2. Spark.  You say its got a hot spark.
3. Spark at the right time.  If it was running before this should still be close to being right although if you frinkled with the point gap that could change it a lot.
4. Compression.  It should be obvious but maybe it's not enough?  A applied or leaking compression release could lower the compression enough to cause problems.
This assumes the engine has such a thing though.  :-\
Jim
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barenekd

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2012, 11:24:01 PM »
Mags don't have adjustable points plates. You have a totally different animal than the book you're apparently trying to apply the work from.
You have to adjust the timing from the other end at the timing gear.
Your gap looks a little wide. About .010 max is right for a mag.
There is a ground brush on the other end of the mag under the screw with the spring tab on it. Pull that out and see what the condition of it is. Clean the slip ring it rubs on.
The bike looks nice, though.
Bare
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 11:26:19 PM by barenekd »
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ERC

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 03:37:57 AM »
That's a K2F with a manual advance. That is controled with a lever on the handlebars. If the timing changes then your pully under the cover that it's bolted to may be slipping.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 12:39:48 PM »
Maybe that's my problem.  There is certainly no lever of any kind on my handlebars.  In fact, there's not a lot of anything on this bike lol.

ERC, would you happen to know how I would go about trying to hook that back up?  Or at least, how to adjust it and where it should typically be in order to get it running again?
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
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The Blackhawk
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ERC

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 01:31:43 PM »
They do make that mag that use's an auto advance and doesn't have a manual advance on it they both fit in the same place. The only problem is Enfield doesn't allow the auto advance to be used with that mag on their bikes. To check your timing bring the left cylinder up on compression,roll it back then set the piston to 3/8" BTDC. With the points set at .015 the points should just open at 3/8" BTDC. The mag will now be set to full advance. That means it will most likely start, but you could get a kick back be carefull. Keep your full weight on the kick starter. I just noticed your mag doesn't have the manual advance provision on it. Most likely you'll have to get the correct one. The mag you have was used on Nortons mostly that you could use the auto advance on. You may be able to install a manual advance with the mag in place.    ERC
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High On Octane

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 01:07:30 PM »
How difficult and how much money would it take to convert this motor to the SR2 distributor type ignition?  I think I've given up on this magneto. >:(
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

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ERC

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 10:03:22 PM »
Not difficult, the only problem they don't make the oil seals for them anymore. I have 2 of them great spark ready to go. But no seals avialible that I've been able to find. The best mag is BT-H out of England I've got one on a Trailblazer. One kick starting. Their similar in looks to the K2F but all electronic and no battery needed. Very easy to Install and set up with the timing. Expensive though.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ERC

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 10:08:08 PM »
Forgot to add did you check the timing like I said? The K2F may be usable as is.  ERC
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High On Octane

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 02:07:50 AM »
I tried to set the timing  but I think the "auto advance" system has failed on this magneto.  No matter what I do, it just goes back to exactly how it was.  I can actually rotate the points plate about a 3/8"-1/2" back and forth and watch the point open and close and all the gaps stay completely relevant whether tightened or loose.  Also, I've tried to manually adjust the timing by hand by rotating the points plate but with 1 kick it always moves completely into the counter-clockwise most position.

I'm interested in getting 1 of those SR2 set ups from you.  I'm not worried about the seal, I'm an Assistant Manager for Advance Auto Parts.  I can make something work!   ;)  Let me know how much you need for one and hopefully we can get something figured out  I need to get this bike running!
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

Arizoni

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« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 04:10:54 AM by Arizoni »
Jim
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ERC

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 02:49:36 PM »
The auto advance K2F ones won't work on a R. E. because you need an adaptor plate to bolt it to the motor. The only one that works is the SR2 that bolts directly to the case. Forgot to add the coils for the SR2 have been discontinued also, but you can use one from a Fairbanks morse mag. Your other option is to use your mag with an electronic unit but then you need a battery. I don't want to sell the mags I have right now Scottie. If you want one they have them on Ebay once in awhile, Or Hitchcocks sells used ones. Your best bet is to use the new BT-H mag from England.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 04:52:25 PM »
Thanks for the PDF's.  Hopefully I can get this thing working again.  As far as the BT-H mag.........  WAY out of my budget.
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

High On Octane

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Re: Timing Trouble On My 1958 Indian Trailblazer 700cc
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2012, 10:47:21 PM »
Soooooooo.....  My friend came over and took a look after I was completely baffled, and now he is baffled too.  I'm convinced something in this magneto has failed.  I'm guessing the automatic advance mechanism.    :(
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads