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Author Topic: Big Brother...  (Read 6926 times)

baird4444

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Big Brother...
« on: December 05, 2012, 03:58:11 AM »
I don't know how you all feel about this but it scares the
shit outta me!!!

'Everyone in US under virtual surveillance' - NSA whistleblower
http://rt.com/usa/news/surveillance-spying-e-mail-citizens-178/
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kodai

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 04:37:25 AM »
Try reading through all the comments

ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 04:35:54 PM »
It's true and I don't like it.

But the scarier part is that they are going to do it, and there isn't anything we are able to do about it, because the whole gov't is a runaway train.
Who's going to stop them?
We are in trouble.
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 06:16:01 PM »
Nothing surprising there. We are way passed 1984. You do very little that isn't on somebodies camera. To grab and stash emails has been going on for many years.
This country is in deep doodoo as personal freedom is concerned, and our frigging leader is at the top of the heap in supporting the loss.
My opinion only. I don't want to cause a ruckus.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 06:26:15 PM »
Ha! They are probably watching this too.

barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 06:58:31 PM »
They are no doubt collecting the data. This going to have to be another Obummer job creation deals. He's going to have to hire a million people to wade through all this crap!
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REdmonton

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 01:00:13 AM »
Bare you actually are on the right path. It doesn't really matter how much the government is listening to us, which I don't really believe. They have no way of sorting through all of data to find anything. If they were able to do see/listen/examine all of the data there would be no examples of terrorism or even crime.

motomataya

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 01:03:47 AM »
Just as scary as what they are doing is how much of the population accepts it. " As long as I don't do anything wrong I'll be Ok". We are an accomplice in our own demise.

ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 04:28:06 AM »
Just as scary as what they are doing is how much of the population accepts it. " As long as I don't do anything wrong I'll be Ok". We are an accomplice in our own demise.

So true!
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Chuck D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 01:18:21 PM »
Paranoid nonsense.
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 06:50:06 PM »
It doesn't take paranoia to know that it is already going on. Look at this general that they're after because of emails and the Penn State program that has had a lot of email evidence. C'mon, open your eyes. It's here!
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iowarider

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 04:30:34 AM »
I'm not sure if I should laugh or build a bug-out shelter!  If you haven't seen the TV show "person of interest" you might want to catch at least one show. This guy, William Binney, either could have or did wright the script. The opening sequence sets up a near exact copy of this article as the shows premise.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 07:00:49 PM »
Try listening to Alex Jones. He's a hoot !

Lwt Big Cheese

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 11:13:59 AM »
Of course they can sift through it all REd.

Software checks word and phrases and finds you in no time at all.

Long before this became public knowledge, a friend of mine was asked about some song lyrics. He texted back. He was then visited by the men in suits as the lyrics included "bomb" and "Aircraft".

They can also listen to you through your mobile (cell) phone and triangulate your position. Even if it's switched off.
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bob bezin

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 01:16:06 PM »
i heard the newer phones have gps built in. that show your location. without the need to triangulate.
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Desi Bike

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 04:12:27 PM »
Yes they do bob. I saw it on Paul Blart Mall Cop.
The echelon program has been in use for years to sift and sort dates for years. Many laughs can be had at the expense of the fear mongers. Next thing they well do is stock pile freeze dried foods and move into the bushes of Michigan out in Nevada.
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میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

GlennF

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 10:10:49 PM »
i heard the newer phones have gps built in. that show your location. without the need to triangulate.

Not only that, but all iphones from the iphone 2 onwards, embed the GPS location in all iphone photos. So do many high end cameras.

http://osxdaily.com/2010/07/06/get-iphone-photo-gps-geolocation-data/

It's possible with the latest iphones to turn off the GPS data if you know how, but not possible on older phones.

The moral of the story is do not send the ex-wife (or the FBI for that matter) mocking iphone photos of you at your secret hideout in the Bahamas without disabling the GPS function :D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 10:13:49 PM by GlennF »

single

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2012, 04:50:01 AM »
Ok,just let me know when the camera is pointed my way so I can flip 'em off.

iowarider

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2013, 06:48:44 AM »
Ran across this old thread, and thought it interesting to see how all of us felt then. How do we feel now? I like a show called Person of Interest. The whole premise is the government built a computer program that linked all cameras of any kind and could keep track of virtually anyone of interest. The hook is the computer identifies folks that are going to do harm to the country, "terrorist". It also shows individuals that are about to be harmed but the government considers them irrelevant. Those are the ones the shows stars try to save the day for.

Sorry for the long lead in, but man, talk about a show reflecting reality. The use of cameras of all types, facial recognition software, sifting those massive databases we talked about last time, as you know those are the tools that brought to justice the New York Marathon bombers.
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2013, 04:20:55 PM »
It's 1984
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ROVERMAN

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2013, 07:30:53 PM »
On the other hand, and I'm just saying, my experience is that most governments couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. ::) ::) ::)

The Garbone

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 09:25:39 PM »
On the other hand, and I'm just saying, my experience is that most governments couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. ::) ::) ::)

Indeed, the only saving grace is that there is massive incompetance in Government. 

Here are a few that make me think it is worse than people want to admit.    A lot of folk seem to turn a blind eye because of the politics of the powers that be.  I remember rants about the Patriot act back in the day.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/google-hand-data-fbi-judge-article-1.1360580

http://news.linktv.org/videos/holder-fed-ap-spying-appropriate-for-serious-leak

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/11/irs-tea-party_n_3260286.html

ugggg.....

This is my Fav...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/eric-holder-bureau-chiefs_n_3352962.html

Nope,  no smoke filled room with a bunch of like minded people controlling what we actually see, hear and think..  Nothing too it at all..
Gary
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baird4444

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« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 05:04:18 AM by baird4444 »
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The Garbone

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2013, 06:47:27 PM »
Mehh,  it may just be too late.. Probably was when everyone was going on about Bush and I was poo pooing it.     

Watching the world burn.......   I have a feeling the Republic is dead, now we have bread and circuses..
Gary
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2013, 09:20:14 PM »
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AgentX

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2013, 01:54:13 AM »
I'm not in the US now, so this isn't on my radar 24/7 like it is for you guys back home.  Below is not an opinion on whether I like this or not, but just my understanding of the legal facts.

From what I've read in a few articles, the phone records accessed were call registers.  There never has been a Constitutional expectation of privacy in these; they are third-party records.  US vs Miller, I believe, is the case law.  With phone records, it's established that since pretty much anyone in the billing department can see the numbers you've called and the duration of those calls, you've lost any expectation of privacy.

Actual contents of your calls...wiretapping in transit of the signal...is where you do have an expectation of privacy.  This requires a warrant to achieve.  (A Title III warrant, in fact, which has more stringent requirements than a standard search warrant.)

Your Internet searches are likewise not private information.  You willingly disclose the subject of your search (and any of your Internet activity) to the ISP, a third party, in order to utilize the service.  You have to give them the URL you want to access in order to use the Internet, and this is logged, creating a record in which you don't enjoy privacy.

Mail is the same way--the contents of your communication are private, but the addressing on the envelope can be seen by many people, so you have no privacy in the simple fact you sent or received a letter from someone.  What the letter says is private, unless and until it's in the recipient's hands.  Then it's up to the recipient what to do with it.  (Or the government, to force disclosure through a court order if recipient is unwilling to disclose.)

Basically, you have to tell another non-government person something to use these voluntary consumer products. Once you tell another non-government party something, you've lost an expectation of privacy in that information.  You have no control over who the third party shares the information with, including the government.  By nature of having told something to someone else, that information is not private, whether you really hoped that person would keep his mouth shut or not.

There's an inherent lack of privacy in Internet communications, whether people like it or not, or whether they realize it or not.  I do see a new Constitutional interpretation on the horizon, however, as there has been in the past with telecommunications advances.  There are also federal telecom privacy laws which could conflict with the government's actions, but I'm not an expert on those. 

In the meantime, the SCOTUS case law is pretty clear on third-party records.

Arizoni

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2013, 05:30:02 AM »
Whether folks like it or not, I think you hit the nail on the head AgentX.  Several times.
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2013, 03:10:44 PM »
This has been going on for a good while anyway but not at the level that we are reading in the news. They have obligated huge funding to facilitate construction and associated infrastructure to capture and store just about any/all data that falls under the auspice of the Patriot act.    IMO when the words "terrorism, home land security, etc are used to substantiated the building and usage of such entities, it warrants the opposite examination of what happens to this type of program if and when you completed the desired objectives....What then, do you shut down the program and turn off the lights...Programs are build with a key purpose and their utilization  applied over  intended audience. The problem is who is the next audience if you completed the original intent.
Maybe well intentioned but so many times that theory been shot to hell too... Lots of money and good paying jobs in this endeavor. Try shutting that spigot off. The fact is building these huge data mining facilities is just the beginning, you might as well get use to it as nothing you can say or do is going to stop it.  ...GM
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ridgerunner

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2013, 05:12:42 AM »
Too bad they are spending so much effort watching law abiding citizens while thousands of people on expired work visas from hostile countries can't seem to be located. So the scary thing is not what is happening, but what COULD happen if the wrong leadership takes control. If ol' Adolph had this info available, their wouldn't be a Jew or Gypsy left in the world.
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rvcycleguy

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2013, 03:49:18 PM »
Too bad they are spending so much effort watching law abiding citizens while thousands of people on expired work visas from hostile countries can't seem to be located. So the scary thing is not what is happening, but what COULD happen if the wrong leadership takes control. If ol' Adolph had this info available, their wouldn't be a Jew or Gypsy left in the world.

You can tell which Jew or Gypsy is who by their phone number?  I did not know that...  is it in the prefix or the suffix that is so telling?

AgentX I think has explained it well enough.  What has happend and not necessarily for the good, is the 24 hour and instant second news cycle.  Once the talking heads and headline grabbing cable networks get a hold of an item like this issue, its completely overhyped and over exaggerated.  I don't believe everything the govt has to say on many issues, but if it makes me feel safe, and  I can walk the streets in some comfort of secruity, then do what's necessary..
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 04:47:30 PM by rvcycleguy »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2013, 04:18:51 PM »
You can tell which Jew or Gypsy is who by their phone number?  I did not know that...  is it in the prefix or the suffix that is so telling?

AgentX I think has explained it well enough.  What has happend and not necessarily for the good, is the 24 hour and instant second news cycle.  Once the talking heads and headline grabbing cable networks get a hold of an item like this issue, its completely overhyped and over exaggerated.  I dont believe everything ghe govt has to say on may issues, but If it makes me feel safe, and  I can walk the streets in some comfort of secruity, then do what's necessary..
So, you'd be in favor of complete tyranny and locking everybody away in a rubber room for the rest of your life, just in case it might make you feel "safe", right?
Just how far would you let them go with this oppression?

"Safe" from "whom", exactly?
Who's protecting us from these spies, and Holder's "Fast and Furious" gun-running scam to the Mexican drug mobs, or the IRS political enemy targeting, or Hillary's secret arms deals in Benghazi with Al Quaeda, etc, etc?
I'm not feeling very "safe". Not sure why you are.

It appears to me that the ones that we need to be "safe" from are these reckless government jack-boots running rough-shod over the American people, based on some unfounded theory that any of it had anything to do with safety, which it does NOT and never did.
You're witnessing Nazi Germany 1938 redux, and you appear to be cheering it on.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 04:40:25 PM by ace.cafe »
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rvcycleguy

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2013, 04:44:21 PM »
So, you'd be in favor of complete tyranny and locking everybody away in a rubber room for the rest of your life, just in case it might make you feel "safe", right?
Just how far would you let them go with this oppression?

"Safe" from "whom", exactly?
Who's protecting us from these spies, and Holder's "Fast and Furious" gun-running scam to the Mexican drug mobs, or the IRS political enemy targeting, or Hillary's secret arms deals in Benghazi with Al Quaeda, etc, etc?
I'm not feeling very "safe". Not sure why you are.

It appears to me that the ones that we need to be "safe" from are these reckless government jack-boots running rough-shod over the American people, based on some unfounded theory that any of it had anything to do with safety, which it does NOT and never did.
You're witnessing Nazi Germany 1938 redux, and you are one of the ones cheering it on.

Ace,

I hope to do business with you someday as a customer for parts etc. for my 56 RE, so don't hold it against me to disagree.

Regarding that rubber roof...   if the ones that are in it are planning on harming US citizens, then yes.

The IRS issue-completely overblown.  The right wing loyalists (Tea Party) who created tax shelters to shield campaign money were coming out of the woodwork right and left.  The program was meant to determine of they were appropriate and spending the majority of their income on charity causes as the charter they completed. 

Hillary's secrets?  your watching too much TV and not riding your MC
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rvcycleguy

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2013, 04:53:33 PM »
You do realize Ace, that these NSA programs were started with the Bush Administration and AG Ashcroft.  Its not a Eric Holder doctrine. These programs have been around for some time, its just been criminally leaked due to some kids bad conscious.  if you can't keep a secret, don't say you will...  Technology has changed the world we exist in. War is not in dug-out trenches and jungles anymore.  There are cultures and groups that want to wipe us off the map. Whatever we can do to prevent that, I'm in.       

If "they" want to look at who I'm calling, have at it.  Nothing to hide here.  if they want to see who I emailed, have at it.  nothing to hide here.    Look, the 911 hijackers came here for flight training.  They phoned home weekly.  They received money for expenses.  Took months and years to plan.  Maybe, just maybe, if we had the NSA looking, that tragedy could have been avoided. 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 04:58:03 PM by rvcycleguy »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2013, 05:03:55 PM »
Ace,

I hope to do business with you someday as a customer for parts etc. for my 56 RE, so don't hold it against me to disagree.

Regarding that rubber roof...   if the ones that are in it are planning on harming US citizens, then yes.

The IRS issue-completely overblown.  The right wing loyalists (Tea Party) who created tax shelters to shield campaign money were coming out of the woodwork right and left.  The program was meant to determine of they were appropriate and spending the majority of their income on charity causes as the charter they completed. 

Hillary's secrets?  your watching too much TV and not riding your MC

I don't have a TV, and haven't had one for 14 years.
TV is the propaganda machine.
I realized that it would never spend anywhere near as much attention on this as it should.
Every political appointee and elected official that had any hand or oversight or even any knowledge of any of these issues should be immediately fired or impeached. All these programs/projects and their associated bureaucracies need to be immediately shut down.
The culture of corruption has got to stop.

And yes I realize that much of this originated in the Bush administration, and I was against all of it then too, because since I have been studying the course of the political activity over the last 100 years, it has become painfully obvious that the real agenda of those running govt is completely different than what they would have us believe.
And THAT is why stuff like this is a giant red flashing warning beacon, and we had better treat it as such. They are no longer our "public servants". They have decided that they are our masters. The worm has turned, and it would behoove us to recognize it.
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2013, 06:06:15 PM »
I hope to do business with you someday as a customer for parts etc. for my 56 RE, so don't hold it against me to disagree.

Ace:  Guess if u don't play ball. you lost a customer...

Got to love it. IMO , this specific constitutional issue affects everyone regardless of political beliefs and required readdress by the Supreme court. .As it stands right now, even if the American people voted to dismantle this project, it's not going to happen .It will just blow away and you'll just have to be happy  watching another episode of "Life in Florida" or American Idol .  I would find the U.S government vs Snowden trail  much more enlightening on cspan....
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rvcycleguy

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2013, 06:18:29 PM »
I hope to do business with you someday as a customer for parts etc. for my 56 RE, so don't hold it against me to disagree.

Ace:  Guess if u don't play ball. you lost a customer...

Got to love it. IMO , this specific constitutional issue affects everyone regardless of political beliefs and required readdress by the Supreme court. .As it stands right now, even if the American people voted to dismantle this project, it's not going to happen .It will just blow away and you'll just have to be happy  watching another episode of "Life in Florida" or American Idol .  I would find the U.S government vs Snowden trail  much more enlightening on cspan....

My point regarding a future customer was that I can agree to disagree with the best of them and I hope he does not hold it against me when I order parts.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2013, 06:30:58 PM »
I would say something, but I feel like someone is listening,....
 
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2013, 07:01:22 PM »
For the record, I don't have a political opposition "hit list" or anything of that nature. I spend enough time on political forums to be able to discuss things objectively.

Regarding the matter of expectations of privacy, there is a clear line between privacy between individuals contracting with their service providers, and an issue of the government demanding that the private organization turn over their entire records base without any clear purpose other than some unsupported platitude that it "keeps us safe, so they want every bit of data on everybody in the country". The 4th Amendment clearly presents the requirements for specific items to be searched for, or seized, and that sufficient probable cause must be presented to a judge that he sees enough likelihood of a crime in progress that he okays the warrant. Just a general thing, like "I want to search the whole country and everybody in it, just because I want to do some giant fishing expedition", is not in the cards, and is entirely unconstitutional.

And let's remember that this is the FISA(Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act), and not the Domestic Spying on the Entire American Population Act. There were plenty of lies told during the selling of this debacle that "only foreign elements will be surveilled, and no Americans will have to worry about this". Now we have everybody in the whole country getting spied on with telephone and emails and internet, and that's only what we have found out about. God knows what they are actually doing that we haven't found out yet.
And let's also remember that there is direct and very recent evidence that any information gotten by Federal Government Agencies is essentially guaranteed to be used for nefarious purposes, exactly as we saw with the IRS hit squad scandal coming to light along with all these other scandals which showed this kind of political hit list policy in virtually every government agency. They can no longer claim that they will be fair and honest because it can easily be seen that they are NOT.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 07:06:15 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2013, 07:04:49 PM »
Reasonbale people can hold political differences but sill engage in commerce. I dont see any reason to the contrary. I have a fireball kit in my bullet but have had disagreements with Ace on this very forum. Its all good.

GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2013, 08:10:29 PM »
Ace doesn't do that and neither would I.  I suspect everyone appreciate the free thoughts ëven if they r monitiored"... ;D
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AgentX

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2013, 01:37:26 AM »
Regarding the matter of expectations of privacy, there is a clear line between privacy between individuals contracting with their service providers... The 4th Amendment clearly presents the requirements for specific items to be searched for, or seized, and that sufficient probable cause must be presented to a judge that he sees enough likelihood of a crime in progress that he okays the warrant. Just a general thing, like "I want to search the whole country and everybody in it, just because I want to do some giant fishing expedition", is not in the cards, and is entirely unconstitutional.

Again, speaking of legalities and not my own opinions:

The 4th Amendment covers when the government accesses things or information residing within a person's reasonable expectation of privacy.  These phone records do not reside within that REP, period.  Thus, the 4th amendment, and its specificity requirement, are legally irrelevant here.  You [currently] have no legal standing to object to the government accessing information at a service provider.  It's no longer your information, it's theirs, and you gave it to them in the course of voluntarily utilizing their services.

However, the point I find interesting is something that pops up in many such cases, which is essentially a point of economies of scale.  First noticed it myself when dealing with government agents installing GPS trackers on vehicles without warrants.  On one hand, it's clear constitutional standard that you enjoy zero REP in your movements in public spaces.  That's obvious, by the nature of "public."  The .gov doesn't need to show any reason whatsoever to have someone tail you in public...use of devices like beeper-trackers (60s-70s tech) on vehicles without warrant has been upheld, as it's simply an improvement in efficiency, not a change in the nature of your privacy.

So a gps, to me, seemed no different than that at first blush.  Just a more efficient way to tail a subject.  But wait...it is.  Because a beeper still needs an operator, and a few people expending effort to tail you, even if their job is easier.  A gps suddenly enables someone to attach it to the car, then have a computer log your movements for weeks on end.  The implications of the economy of scale here are significant.  Slap one on anyone and everyone's car periodically, and see who happens to go to known drug locations, houses of prostitution, whatever.

We, and the courts, would feel differently about allowing the .gov to follow private citizens around in public if there were enough government agents to shadow all, most, or a significant portion of us whenever we left our front door.  But previously, the .gov's power of surveillance was actually quite limited by the simple fact of the manpower required.

So it's quite likely that we're due for new case law that limits the .gov's powers of surveillance, because with new technology, it can become over-reaching in a way that wasn't previously possible.  And that's the beauty of the Constitution, and why it was designed how it is.

As a counterpoint, though, people should be aware of what new technology does and how it does it before they make assumptions about the inherent "privacy" of things like online social media... (not equating that to universal phone record access, just saying.)

Arizoni

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2013, 04:00:10 AM »
238 years ago, Benjamin Franklin wrote,

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

It looks like ole' Ben wouldn't like what is going on now in Washington. :(
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2013, 12:10:29 PM »
re: "expectations of privacy"

Yes, this is all very interesting.
Here's the 4th Amendment text:
-----------------------
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
---------------------------------------
Not seeing anything in there about location or expectations of privacy or placing tracking devices, or any such things. How did I miss it?

Well, this brings up a very important distinction in government, which is the difference between "authority" and "power".
Authority comes from the people, and the government is limited to ONLY what it is permitted by the Constitution, and especially strict prohibitions/instructions of government are enumerated in the Bill of Rights, in order to make certain things crystal clear that they SHALL NOT do .  Period.
That's "authority", and in the US Federal Government, the authority is very strictly limited in terms clearly described in the US Constitution.

But, "power" is another thing completely. It's what government can do simply because it's the biggest baddest street gang on the block, and it has a lot of people with guns who will go after you, on command. No lawful basis necessary. And this is how the majority of the government do things.

So, how does this tie in to the discussion?
Well, it ties in because the "expectation of privacy", and "being in public" is not part of the 4th Amendment which is the restriction on gov't. And the 9th and 10th Amendments say that anything not enumerated is in the purview of the States and the People. NOT in the purview of the Federal Government, right?
Right.
So, all these "interpretations" and "case law" and "precedents" are in fact, made-up fiction. They are not law. They are one-sided decisions by the government that it is going to usurp these aspects which are beyond its specific authority granted by the people. These are decisions made by politically appointed judges, and made with specific intent to set "precedent" so as to expand the latitude of what government can do, based on some lies by a judge, and sworn-to by the rest of the government cronies who will profit  by this "precedent" which increases their power over the people. It is a "jedi mind trick" which makes people think that this is a lawful process, and therefore people think it is lawful, so they they dutifully obey. But it is not lawful. The judiciary has no authority to legislate from the bench. Its role is to decide guilty or not guilty, based on the law. It has been given no authority to make law. But, they use this procedure to make "color of law", so that they can foist it over on everyone and act as if it "is law", when it isn't.(Disclaimer: Simply because it's not "lawful" doesn't mean that they won't throw you in jail or shoot you if you don't obey, so be aware of that.) They use the term "legal".
It's "POWER". And they enforce it as if it is law, when it is not, because they CAN. They have the guns, they have the thugs, they have all our money that they have taken from us to pay for all this, and they use it to control us for their own gain.

"Color of law" is what most governmental operations today are comprised of. That is why the constitution is pushed aside, because it is a painful reminder of how far government has strayed from their commission, into an over-reaching unlawful and oppressive monster that we see today. It is the result of the conniving and scheming of men trying to break the bonds of the Constitution for their own self-aggrandizement and power, for over 100 years. And some would say a significantly longer time period than that.

And for those who want to cling to "case law" or "precedent", then I submit this one that trumps all others.
Marbury vs Madison 1803
"A law which is repugnant to the Constitution is void".

« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 12:20:29 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2013, 01:49:42 PM »
Apparently the ACLU is taking the Obama Admin to court re. this latest episode...Not sure if anything will come of this as the Patriot act trumps anything from the courts... On a side note, I never knew that Andrew Jackson made the decision to move the Indians east of the Mississippi which was overturned by Supreme Court Justice John Marshal who sided with the Cherokee nation.  Jackson response was "Make him enforce it".  The Indians were moved with no compensation for their land  and this moment in U.S history is known as the "Trail of tears". 
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2013, 01:52:44 PM »
Apparently the ACLU is taking the Obama Admin to court re. this latest episode...Not sure if anything will come of this as the Patriot act trumps anything from the courts... On a side note, I never knew that Andrew Jackson made the decision to move the Indians east of the Mississippi which was overturned by Supreme Court Justice John Marshal who sided with the Cherokee nation.  Jackson response was "Make him enforce it".  The Indians were moved with no compensation for their land  and this moment in U.S history is known as the "Trail of tears".

I opposed the Patriot Act, and after it passed I have sent emails to my Congressman every year, asking him to introduce a bill to repeal it. I have also requested the abolition of the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA and all their enabling legislations. For many years I have been asking my Congressman to work at repealing the Federal Reserve Act and the IRS too. This recent scandal might be the end of the IRS, if enough people complain about it to their representatives.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 01:55:38 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2013, 02:52:17 PM »
IRS will never go away: 1st thing a new Congressman or Senator does is find sources of money to campaign for the next election, 2nd thing is look for new sources of revenue to fund idiotic programs and pork so that people will give money for #1.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2013, 03:45:21 PM »
I thought I lost my keys today, but then the NSA called and told me they were in my other pants

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2013, 03:45:47 PM »
I usually don't get involved in political crap, but here I go:  The American government is grossly corrupt.  It doesn't matter who's in office, democratic or republican, EVERYONE involved in the government is corrupt.  The president, secretary of defense, even your local mayor is corrupt in some shape or form.  Our government is based strictly off of only informing the public with the information THEY want you to know.  It is formed around lies and deception and manipulating cash flow so that rich keep getting richer while the middle and lower classes struggle harder every year.  It's a crock of shit, and no matter who you voted for, you voted for corruption.  Which is why I won't vote for anyone in a government that lies to their people to better their own propaganda.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2013, 03:47:14 PM »
I read an article the other day about what a new congressman/senator has to go through to fund raise. Basically other than to vote most of their waking moments are supposed to be on the phone asking for money. It was several hours EACH day.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2013, 03:55:07 PM »
I read an article the other day about what a new congressman/senator has to go through to fund raise. Basically other than to vote most of their waking moments are supposed to be on the phone asking for money. It was several hours EACH day.

Kevin - Key Words there are "SUPPOSED TO".  I'm pretty sure the last couple elections several candidates proved that to not be the case.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2013, 04:37:31 PM »
I thought I lost my keys today, but then the NSA called and told me they were in my other pants
Hahaha!  Luv it!
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2013, 05:59:14 PM »
Ace:  I understand why it was initiated but feel their is a now a overreach with it..How many domestic individuals are we talking about that feel requires monitoring? Maybe they feel we have become infiltrated with individuals that have sympathies with terrorist organization.. The reason I ask that question is I thought the numbers are in 20/30 million range.  Who knows what the numbers are.   You then delve into the realm of "who are the terrorist and who isn't game".. What is the criteria that gets you on the list or is really just random.  Can u be on the list one maonth and taken off the next?   A real slippery slope I say but we are assured from the top down that the policy will have strict oversight (That makes u feel better/doesn't it )...The other problem is that their is a huge economic dependency involved (here we go again) but it is what it is...I understand your concern re. letting a few in control of such power. Might be a double edge sword for them too as history has shown  that the builder of such things are the ones that it's eventually turned on...I'm gonna sit back, go for a ride and wait n see if this  just exit stage right"with the upcoming "Life in Florida trial"..
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2013, 06:18:23 PM »
238 years ago, Benjamin Franklin wrote,

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

It looks like ole' Ben wouldn't like what is going on now in Washington. :(

GreenMachine,
I think Arizoni summed it up.
And I'll add that in a free society, a person looks to himself to fill his needs, and privately contracts and trades with people of his choosing.
When people look to government to solve their needs, then they have delivered themselves into tyranny, whether wittingly or not.

I realize that it's difficult to grasp truth in the midst of such a continuous barrage of media propaganda. Here's an example to simplify things. A "terrorist" might be able to kill someone, or blow up a city block or a sports event. But only the government can destroy all that America has ever been or will become, by obliterating the Constitution and the American way of life, and putting people into chains under the false pretense of "security".
In other words, the intent of government to move into this intrusive and oppressive direction poses a far far greater danger to this nation than any terrorist ever could. "Terrorists" are small potatoes compared to the danger of government at this time. "Terrorists" are essentially "the boogeyman" used by government as the excuse to push their total domination scheme into action. Don't think it's true? Just watch them do it. There's nobody that can stop them but the American people, and the American people are too brainwashed to even see what is going on, and are cheering "USA, USA, USA" while it all goes down, just like Germany in 1938.

I certainly recognize that this is not just a Democrat vs Republican issue, and it's more or less a "tag team" process which is going on.
And I fully understand that those who are coming into this concept from a completely uninitiated perspective, having been thinking that what they are told by gov't and media are anywhere near "truth", may very well find my opinions to seem ludicrous and preposterous.

This would be "my 2 cents" on the matter.
And these 2 cents come from more than 40 years of watching what they are doing, and being able to recognize the vector, the strategies, and the tactics.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I don't expect, or ask for, agreement with my positions.  They are presented as information for anyone to do with as they wish.
"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance".
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 07:19:55 PM by ace.cafe »
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The Garbone

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2013, 07:12:57 PM »
Yesterday afternoon I composed a 3 paragraph post about for this thread but did not hit post and went to dinner.  When I got done I reread it and decided just to delete the thing, just so depressing...

Ace is correct about things going badly.   

I prefer not to be a "Good American" 2013 as I think t is indeed equivalent to being a "Good German" in 1937 or a "Good Russian" in 1925.   It is sad to see the freedoms secured by thousands of lives over the past 200 years given away in the course of one generation.   Of course we may not be free but the baby boomers will have their healthcare and social security,  it does not seem to matter that their grandchildren will be wards and slaves of the statest machine...   

Oh damn,, there I go again with the rants.......
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2013, 08:29:47 PM »
Garbone :  Of course we may not be free but the baby boomers will have their healthcare and social security,  it does not seem to matter that their grandchildren will be wards and slaves of the statest machine...

Garbone:  Well they were just playing by the rules that were decided for them at that time (FDR new deal) ....But that's only part of the problem if you believe what they are marketing is correct.  I'm not convinced that the money that was invested in Social Security ever existed in the first place...Just a concept with a paper trail is what it ever was from its conception...Good excuse to use for diverting attention and especially useful for creating generational scape goating .You know - It's their fault (Mon and Dad) ...Think about it - It's working well that line of thinking..All u have to do is keeping hammering the concept out.  I hear it quite a bit from my friends 20-30 yr old offspring.  Yup I could see them welch on that  bet....One thing for sure, they'll welch on that before they welch on the Chinese...That would create some bad problems indeed.
Kids - I hope not.. I thinking of the scene in "Ben Hur"..Row well No 41 and live...



In other words, the intent of government to move into this intrusive and oppressive direction poses a far far greater danger to this nation than any terrorist ever could. "Terrorists" are small potatoes compared to the danger of government at this time. "Terrorists" are essentially "the boogeyman" used by government as the excuse to push their total domination scheme into action. Don't think it's true? Just watch them do it. There's nobody that can stop them but the American people, and the American people are too brainwashed to even see what is going on, and are cheering "USA, USA, USA".

Ace: Like how u think.They would counter that although your ideals are noble it isn't enough to stop the creeping advances of evil doers...Frankly, I'm not sure if their really is a true fix for this situation.  Personally I don't see why they can't hunt terrorist without having to construct huge data mining centers throughout our  country.  Maybe they will explain that to us instead of patting us on the head and telling us "Don't u worry your pretty little head"...."
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2013, 09:06:52 PM »

Ace: Like how u think.They would counter that although your ideals are noble it isn't enough to stop the creeping advances of evil doers...Frankly, I'm not sure if their really is a true fix for this situation.  Personally I don't see why they can't hunt terrorist without having to construct huge data mining centers throughout our  country.  Maybe they will explain that to us instead of patting us on the head and telling us "Don't u worry your pretty little head"...."

The tip-off hint is that they leave the borders wide open. If there was a real terrorist threat, the borders would be closed as tight as a drum.  This is the tip-off that the whole aim is to control the existing domestic population inside the US, because that is where all their activities are targeted, while the borders are as porous as a sieve. They are spying on all our phone calls and data. They are putting us in cattle-lines at airports and subjecting us to dehumanizing searches. They have created a whole new "gestapo-like" DHS Federal Police Force. Militarized all the state and local police forces, and instilled an "us vs them" mentality in law enforcement. They have created programs to make Americans suspect each other, as if we are all potential "terrorists" that should be "snitched" on.
It's all a "mis-direction ploy". They aren't really concerned much, if at all, about "terrorism". It's just their "boogeyman du jour", to give plausible excuses for their domestic crack-down .
And the border is the tip-off as to what is really going on.

The reason they leave the borders open is because they have another plan which that ties into.
And that plan is the National ID Card, which they always attach to all these "immigration reform" attempts, so that they can have us all tagged and categorized and trackable, under the thinly veiled excuse that they "need to be able to tell who's an illegal alien". They don't care who's an illegal alien. They aren't deporting any of them anyway. They have been letting them in unimpeded for decades now, just to create this exact situation.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 09:13:39 PM by ace.cafe »
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GreenForce82

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2013, 03:20:51 AM »
I keep saying this but it all boils down to the making illegal of what was in the Declaration of Independence...

Quote
-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--

Patriot act NDA and other crap now makes this illegal... while the DOI is not a law per se, it IS our Founding Document, and the MOST important piece of our history IMHO.

So yeah everything is not ok... Just us guys talking about this is popping flags on Govt computers in all likelihood and that is part of what is so wrong with it all...

I'll say it again just so THEY hear me...

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO ABOLISH THE GOVT WHEN IT DOES WHAT IT HAS BEEN DOING AND NOW IF WE EVEN TRY, IF WE EVEN TALK ABOUT IT, WE ARE DOMESTIC TERRORISTS... AND THAT IS BULL SHIT!
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AussieDave

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2013, 12:34:10 PM »
sounds like you guys need to challenge that law in your supreme court. that's what the separation of powers is for. maybe they believe the climate science -4 to6 degrees of warming leading to a breakdown of food production and supply and associated chaos it may bring. it is totalitarianism without a doubt, however you frame it or attempt to justify it. it is telling that your agencies feel completely free to impose themselves on other sovereign states.  bit rude ,don't you think. australia is hardly a hotbed of terrorism. not to mention the pursuit of julian assange.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2013, 12:40:38 PM »
seriously,the folk who wrote your DOI knew what they were doing. so sad to see it compromised.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2013, 08:04:20 PM »
Here is more: http://news.yahoo.com/british-spy-agency-taps-cables-shares-nsa-guardian-181011320.html

Should have voted for Ron Paul when we had a chance ! His son, has his rhetoric ....but does he have his conviction ?

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2013, 10:11:13 PM »
Yesterday afternoon I composed a 3 paragraph post about for this thread but did not hit post and went to dinner.  When I got done I reread it and decided just to delete the thing, just so depressing...

Kevin always said that the best e-mails are the ones that never got sent.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2013, 02:01:34 AM »
...Should have voted for Ron Paul when we had a chance ! His son, has his rhetoric ....but does he have his conviction ?...
Google "Ron Paul Congress Pork Recipient" and you'll see why I ignored him from day one - hypocrisy seems to apply to every party and every Congressman seeking reelection or the Presidency.  There is no Moses trying to lead us out of this mess, only those manipulating.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2013, 02:54:56 AM »
Humm,...this was in "1984"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jxaune1z3k

Freaky, prophetic,..
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 03:00:01 AM by REpozer »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2013, 04:17:14 AM »
The reality of the future is a lot closer to "Brave New World," I think, than "1984."

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2013, 10:14:33 AM »
Google "Ron Paul Congress Pork Recipient" and you'll see why I ignored him from day one - hypocrisy seems to apply to every party and every Congressman seeking reelection or the Presidency.  There is no Moses trying to lead us out of this mess, only those manipulating.

This "pork" subject that has been circulated around about Ron Paul is a distortion.
It revolves around a misunderstanding of "earmarks" in a budget bill.
"Earmarks" are what are attached to a budget bill after the discretionary spending figure is already built-in to the budget. That money is already going to get spent somewhere. The "earmarks" are for Congressmen to include their district's needs in that spending. It's the way the budget bills are designed.

Now, the confusion comes in when people mistakenly think that if these "earmarks" are cut or eliminated, that the money will be saved. This is incorrect. Any money in that fund that is not "earmarked" is not saved. Non-earmarked funds are shifted to the Presidential discretionary funding for the President to spend as he wishes, thus circumventing any of that money coming back to the states.
Ron Paul's record is to include earmarks for his district as the process allows, and then votes against the final budget bill.

This issue has been raised many times as a red-herring, but it won't stick with anyone who understands the process. If RP never earmarked anything, it would never save one thin dime from being spent by Congress. It would just go elsewhere.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2013, 08:12:44 PM »
238 years ago, Benjamin Franklin wrote,
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
It looks like ole' Ben wouldn't like what is going on now in Washington.

Probably not, but not for the reason you're thinking of...

http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/07/what-ben-franklin-really-said/
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2013, 10:49:54 PM »
The author has his opinion and I have mine.

When a author starts by explaining he has an agenda as does this one when he says,
"I started looking into this quotation because I am writing a frontal attack on the idea that liberty and security exist in some kind of “balance” with one another..." he has acknowledged his viewpoints will be biased.
Biased viewpoints rarely make a fair presentation of history often leaving out important information which would conflict with their goal.

Being interested in the history of the F/I and Revolutionary war as I am, I do understand those times and the author of the paper you linked makes a very debatable conclusion.

Be that as it may, the wisdom of Franklins' written remark holds true for the conditions of today as well as those when it was written, even if the two are different.

We have a right to privacy in this Nation and to give up even a small part of that right to gain what some believe to be an increased security is a mistake.

Once even a small part of a right is given up to a government for any reason it will never be willingly returned.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2013, 12:04:32 AM »
Once even a small part of a right is given up to a government for any reason it will never be willingly returned.
AMEN!
And Ace, I'm against any earmarking for districts of any state.   Asking for ones' own district rather than another's district is all the same to me.  My brother lives in RP's district so I hear your argument, just don't agree.  But that's why Americans can debate and not look over their shoulder.  Well, uh, we shouldn't have too. LOL
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 12:10:27 AM by D the D »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2013, 12:26:14 AM »
When a author starts by explaining he has an agenda as does this one when he says,
"I started looking into this quotation because I am writing a frontal attack on the idea that liberty and security exist in some kind of “balance” with one another..." he has acknowledged his viewpoints will be biased.
Biased viewpoints rarely make a fair presentation of history often leaving out important information which would conflict with their goal.

True, but *all* "viewpoints" are biased, one way or another, including yours and mine. That's why they're expressed as points of view and not as "facts."  I've yet to meet a truly unbiased viewpoint.  At least this author admitted his biases.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2013, 11:45:02 AM »
AMEN!
And Ace, I'm against any earmarking for districts of any state.   Asking for ones' own district rather than another's district is all the same to me.  My brother lives in RP's district so I hear your argument, just don't agree.  But that's why Americans can debate and not look over their shoulder.  Well, uh, we shouldn't have too. LOL

Without earmarks, all the discretionary funding would automatically go to the President's fund.

To change this, the way that Congress writes budget bills would need to be changed completely. This is why RP votes against the final budget bills, because he doesn't agree with the process. But if the other Congressmen are going to pass a bill like that, then he's not going to have his district penalized.

There is a good argument to be made that every single dollar in the budget should be "earmarked" so that no slush funds are created, and that the money is not sent to the President's slush fund.

My preference would be that ALL funds remain in the states, and the absolute minimum possible funding sent to the Federal government.

Regarding RP, his record of fiscal responsibility is legendary over the last 30 years, and he has the most conservative voting record of any Congressman since 1937. He also returned a significant portion of his Congressional salary back to the Treasury every year. It's interesting that certain critics pick him to attack over the "earmarks" issue, when virtually ALL the other legislators are much easier targets for their wasteful spending activity. Basically, they had to make an issue out of this for RP, because he is so spotless that they had nothing else to attack, and the establishment had to try to marginalize him because they could not allow his policies of freedom and liberty to take hold in the Republican Party.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:49:15 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2013, 12:51:45 AM »


                        http://www.youtube.com/v/AHrZgS-Gvi4
more fuel for the fire.....
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2013, 02:20:20 AM »
The american people have lost interest...they have the florida trial to absorb themselves in..we don't deserve to be free anymore..That being stated, the powers to be  will continue at a increase pace to enhance their capabilities...Nothing can be done to reverse course...full steam ahead... :o
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2013, 04:22:20 AM »
i am interested to know what you guys think of the actions of assange and snowden.did they act in the finest tradition of civil disobedience or do you see them traitors to the state? i tend to see them in the former light,but then again it wasn't my countrys cat that was let out of the bag. interested to hear your perspective, and also the feeling about private mannings trial. thoughts?
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #73 on: June 25, 2013, 04:13:42 PM »
i am interested to know what you guys think of the actions of assange and snowden.did they act in the finest tradition of civil disobedience or do you see them traitors to the state? i tend to see them in the former light,but then again it wasn't my country's cat that was let out of the bag. interested to hear your perspective, and also the feeling about private mannings trial. thoughts?
They appear to have broken the law, all three of them.  There is a system in place for "Whistle Blowing" which they chose not to use.  Whether they couldn't trust the system or why they chose their paths is irrelevant until they get a day in court.   A judge and jury should decide if they are actually guilty or not and if there were extenuating circumstances for their actions which should be taken into account.  Whatever one's views on it, we've already judged them through media, which isn't the proper place.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2013, 04:35:21 PM »
The government broke the law on a massive scale.
The traitors are those who authorized and operated the criminal spying network aimed at victimizing every single American citizen, and many other innocent victims outside the US too.
Exposing the criminal elements which have infiltrated our government structures is no crime.
Rhetoric to"criminalize" the whistle-blowers are merely weak attempts to swerve the attention away from the real guilty parties that engaged in this secret war being waged against the American people by its own government personnel.

These government "officials" who have proven that they flagrantly disregard the
Constitution and the rights of the people, have shown that they consider themselves above the law and outside the law, and that they believe their corruption is to be protected by further abuses of their power.
They have broken the contract with the people, lost all credibility, and the only way to restoration is to abolish the secret systems and networks that they have constructed against the American people, and bring a clear demonstration of transparency back to government. The "national security blanket" is being used to protect criminals and their actions from being seen by the people.

I would support fully open and televised criminal trials-by-jury for all the government officials involved, from the top right down to the bottom, with full public disclosure of every single thing they did. And treason charges would certainly be appropriate, not for "aiding" the enemy, but for "being" the enemy. As the oath describes: protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies,  foreign AND DOMESTIC.
It does NOT read: protect the corrupt cabal members from being found out and prosecuted for their crimes against the Constitution and humanity.
They all took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not to trample it into the dirt, along with oppressing all the American people too.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 05:58:59 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2013, 07:14:44 PM »
Yeah Ace, but I'm sure there will never be any real open hearings or trials because elements in the Gov will continue to insist that classified information must be protected.  There may be a phony media show hearing in Congress to benefit the members in response to public outcry.  Of course we know it's the good ol' boys covering for each other.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2013, 08:27:21 PM »
Yeah Ace, but I'm sure there will never be any real open hearings or trials because elements in the Gov will continue to insist that classified information must be protected.  There may be a phony media show hearing in Congress to benefit the members in response to public outcry.  Of course we know it's the good ol' boys covering for each other.

Agreed.
However, hopefully enough Americans could/will wake up and make a critical mass which could force a change, or at least delay some of their destructive plans, to give us a little more time.
It needs to be known that our system of gov't has been hijacked, and it's posing a serious danger.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #77 on: June 26, 2013, 05:47:06 PM »
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2013, 08:23:43 PM »
Relax, things are progressing according to plan...
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #79 on: June 27, 2013, 02:22:47 AM »
I hope Rand Paul works out.

About our trial down here in Fla... 

The courthouse is about 4 miles from my front door.  The entire thing has been a farce since day one.

During the "big" protest down on 13th street a few months back (notably before the election) I was working  near the airport and watched the "thousands of locals" take there charter buses back to the airport and fly home from whence they came.

Listening and watching the trial on the radio leads me to believe the Police did the right thing letting him go the first time around.   Funny thing is he got the Police in trouble working to lead the protests a few years back when this story happened.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/police-lieutenants-son-investigated-attacking-homeless-man/story?id=12507834

Zimmerman was one of the guys handing out fliers to publicize it.   How the worm turns.

If you do not think the media is a full on propaganda machine all you need to do is watch the trial and see the local reports then watch the National News,  the editing is remarkable..
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2013, 03:14:33 PM »
Relax, things are progressing according to plan...

Gee thanks that makes me feel better all over.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2013, 03:50:35 PM »
You know I was just being a bit sarcastic but it's apparent that nothing is being done to change course...You have snowden holed up supposedly at the airport (no pics that i have seen) , you have clapper (DDNI)  under "oath" in front of a committee (pelosi was in attendance) stating that the NSA isn't collecting data on a large population of  American citizens..Apparently we have come to find out that his omission was just a misnomer ...It doesn't make me feel better either but I've come to the conclusion theirs nothing that can be done at our level except vent and try to facilitate some kind of reasoning behind all of it... :-\
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2013, 05:05:58 PM »
Well, in other news.

The I.T. guy that worked in the Florida prosecuters office that told about them not following disclosure proceedure in the Zimmerman trial was fired about 5 minutes after the trial went to the jury.  Seems they have been playing fast and loose with the defendants civil rights in hopes of getting a conviction.   

Also it probably did not make the news the prosecution tried to add child abuse charges after the defence closed its case.   Of course this also is illegal because it would have not giving Zimmerman a chance to defend against the charges made against him of course that does not matter when "social justice" is the goal...  Thankfully the attempt was denied, but the fact that it was made is telling.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2013, 06:15:33 PM »
Here is more. Aparently its not just the EZ Pass or the FastTrack infoe they store, its about everything else too. Justincredible:  http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CAR_SURVEILLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-17-10-22-59

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2013, 04:40:07 AM »
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2013, 05:44:09 AM »
Baird, it is for your own good.  They are protecting us.  You have nothing to fear.  Or so they say.  Didn't Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Mao say that too?
Once one has power, few give it up.  Most grab for more.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2013, 12:41:33 PM »
Baird, it is for your own good.  They are protecting us.  You have nothing to fear.  Or so they say.  Didn't Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Mao say that too?
Once one has power, few give it up.  Most grab for more.

I can totally see Hitler in A He-Man pose with a sword yelling "Ich habe die Leistung!"  (I have the power  ;D )

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2013, 01:11:35 AM »
When this scumbag was running for office the first time, I though there is a lot of hididng the people he was dealing with hiding about him, then as soon as he got in and started releasing his SS Squads (ACORN, ETC,) I could see Nazi written all over it. It hasn't gotten any better. He has pulled so many unconstitutional moves, I just can't believe people are putting up with this crap. America is dead.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2013, 02:34:05 PM »
Chew on this...I hope we don't sign up to this....

http://api.ning.com/files/wD-b8tJJjO0w57xbpMVIyG9A3U1SWI4GVce-qBH*ch4HXhnXeXtVNTlOjwriR-8DUhYfDX2gzhcNK61cC*Dg15eN*mnB72Pz/Untitled.jpg
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2013, 02:53:42 PM »
Chew on this...I hope we don't sign up to this....

http://api.ning.com/files/wD-b8tJJjO0w57xbpMVIyG9A3U1SWI4GVce-qBH*ch4HXhnXeXtVNTlOjwriR-8DUhYfDX2gzhcNK61cC*Dg15eN*mnB72Pz/Untitled.jpg

Yes. That's another part of it.

It should all be painfully obvious now as to exactly where this is all going.
And it ain't pretty.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2013, 03:24:51 PM »
Yes. That's another part of it.

Yup, well it pretty much spells that out on a official level and no double talk in that memo...Of course our government would have to sign off on it ...First you create a new philosophy that gun ownership is a thing of the past and re enforce this approach in a methodical and creative manner... Once you have instilled this in the population at large, you begin implementation via the legislative process, and courts. Confiscation is the easiest part of the entire process with a well paid  law enforcement in place.  The again, you could make the selling and distribution of certain ammunition illegal and let time march on but that's normally not that way these things happen..
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #92 on: August 21, 2013, 03:51:24 PM »
... Once you have instilled this in the population at large,...

And "they" are succeeding in doing that through the media and school system.  I used a pocket knife at church to open a box.  A little, 1.5" x 1/4" blade "gentleman's" knife.   A 20-something male flipped out and told the pastor that I had a "weapon".   Several others his age asked me why I would carry one!  Reason prevailed, but it illustrates that they've already made inroads where a once common item is now scary and reported.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2013, 04:17:00 PM »
A 20-something male flipped out and told the pastor that I had a "weapon". 

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the younger generation responds to all out military draft if the need arose...Violence at even that level would be considered taboo and illegal in many minds..I don't think the national psychic of Russia, China and many others would even consider  that perspective..You should have told them you were taking your frustrations out on the box.. The pastor would have examine your conscience and absolved you after you finished your penitence..I'm so thinking Crocodile Dundee and the pulling the knife out scene.. ;D
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2013, 08:31:14 PM »
The pastor was a ROK soldier before he went to seminary and moved to the US.  The assistant pastor was in the US Army in Iraq.  They just shook their heads in disbelief.  They can't believe where things are headed either.
Added:  South Korea is like Switzerland in that they have compulsory military service.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 08:33:54 PM by D the D »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2013, 09:50:05 PM »
yes I have read about the Swiss defense force..That's a interesting subject in itself..Reminds me a bit of our revolutionary citizen soldier concept but in a seamless modern sense .It goes along way to establish military responsibilities as a norm...
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2013, 12:42:46 AM »
.Violence at even that level would be considered taboo and illegal in many minds..

I think part of the reason we see mass shootings is that we have distanced our mainstream culture quite far from real, actual violence (rough sports, play, scuffles, slaughtering animals for food, etc.) and its often-tragic real-life consequences, and made violence the mark and license of alienation and dis-satisfaction.  Coupled, of course, with the use of violent imagery/ideas in media that have no real consequence.


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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2013, 04:19:01 AM »
Chew on this...I hope we don't sign up to this....

http://api.ning.com/files/wD-b8tJJjO0w57xbpMVIyG9A3U1SWI4GVce-qBH*ch4HXhnXeXtVNTlOjwriR-8DUhYfDX2gzhcNK61cC*Dg15eN*mnB72Pz/Untitled.jpg

I think we already have. I'm pretty sure our favorite S.O.S.  Hillary signed a
UN treaty.  The big question is are we really bound to it? Why should we recognize the
UN as a higher power??
  can you smell what they is cook'in??
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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2013, 05:30:35 AM »
I think we already have. I'm pretty sure our favorite S.O.S.  Hillary signed a
UN treaty.  The big question is are we really bound to it? Why should we recognize the
UN as a higher power??
  can you smell what they is cook'in??

The Prez and SoS can sign anything they want, but it isn't binding until the Senate approves it by a two thirds aye vote.   Some parts of the Constitution even the poo hole can't ignore.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #99 on: August 22, 2013, 01:47:19 PM »
the catch on this is that it's a treaty....
I don't believe must ratify a treaty.....
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #100 on: August 22, 2013, 02:59:59 PM »
“If this be treason, make the most of it!”
― Patrick Henry
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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #101 on: August 22, 2013, 03:05:59 PM »
the catch on this is that it's a treaty....
I don't believe must ratify a treaty.....

Article II, Secton 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution says a Treaty has to be ratified by 2/3 vote of the US Senate.  An Agreement only requires a simple majority vote, but still has to be ratified by the US Senate.  The intention of an Agreement is understood to be temporary, the intention of a Treaty is understood to be permanent.
There's no way around it other than to push legislation that would comply with the intent without actually entering into a treaty.  Which is what the left/libs are trying to do anyway.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2013, 12:06:00 AM »
well alrighty then...  feel'in better bout this
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2013, 01:22:54 AM »
....Which is what the left/libs are trying to do anyway.

That way, we can all join hands with the people of the world and merrily sing Kumbaya while Foreign governments decide how we should live .   :o

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AgentX

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2013, 01:26:33 AM »
Chew on this...I hope we don't sign up to this....

http://api.ning.com/files/wD-b8tJJjO0w57xbpMVIyG9A3U1SWI4GVce-qBH*ch4HXhnXeXtVNTlOjwriR-8DUhYfDX2gzhcNK61cC*Dg15eN*mnB72Pz/Untitled.jpg

The fact that the stilted language of this document didn't tip you off that it's an Internet hoax designed to whip up emotion is, frankly, a little disappointing.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/unoda.asp


D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2013, 03:28:05 AM »
The fact that the stilted language of this document didn't tip you off that it's an Internet hoax designed to whip up emotion is, frankly, a little disappointing.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/unoda.asp

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2013, 03:33:44 AM »
C'mon, men, don't quit now!  Why let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Does a debunking on Snopes make something indisputably false?

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #107 on: August 23, 2013, 04:19:49 AM »
Deleted
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:28:04 AM by The_Rigger »
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2013, 09:59:37 AM »
If it a hoax then shame on me...All this misinformation is really making  a mess of thing...I  should had gleaned the doc more carefully as it did seem a bit to plain in language...Don't be disappointed, I feel better that its not accurate either...GM
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #109 on: August 23, 2013, 12:45:02 PM »
If it a hoax then shame on me...All this misinformation is really making  a mess of thing...I  should had gleaned the doc more carefully as it did seem a bit to plain in language...Don't be disappointed, I feel better that its not accurate either...GM

Even if that particular thing was disinfo, nothing changes about the fact that "they" DO have disarming the people as part of the agenda, and it has been part of the agenda for a LONG time. And the rest of the agenda ain't any nicer. The rights and freedoms of the American people have been under serious assault for a hundred years or more, in an incremental manner.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #110 on: August 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM »
It's amazing the trouble people go through to fake something. Maybe they should try to get a job somewhere to use up their time.  ERC
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2013, 02:48:32 PM »
It's amazing the trouble people go through to fake something. Maybe they should try to get a job somewhere to use up their time.  ERC

They do.  It's called cable news.
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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2013, 05:07:04 PM »
Even if that particular thing was disinfo, nothing changes about the fact that "they" DO have disarming the people as part of the agenda, and it has been part of the agenda for a LONG time. And the rest of the agenda ain't any nicer. The rights and freedoms of the American people have been under serious assault for a hundred years or more, in an incremental manner.

+1  It has been the agenda of the UN overtly since at least 1997 and it is the agenda of leftists and liberals the world over.  Though the memo is hoax, the subject is true.  The UN has been pushing members to outlaws personal weapons and to ratify the Small Arms Trade Treaty that severely limits sales of sporting arms even though their own studies indicate black market and illegal sales of military weapons won't be affected and is a bigger problem to world peace.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2013, 07:50:28 PM »
I'm not disagreeing with alot of what u guys stated, it just  total BS that someone started a  bogus official looking memo to perpetuate a political direction...Yeah I get pissed too but I rather have my facts straight...Agent X got the straight dope on  this .That why I like this forum, it self correcting.. :o..
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #114 on: August 24, 2013, 06:54:47 AM »
I'm not disagreeing with a lot of what u guys stated, it just  total BS that someone started a  bogus official looking memo to perpetuate a political direction...Yeah I get pissed too but I rather have my facts straight...Agent X got the straight dope on  this .That why I like this forum, it self correcting.. :o..

You're probably right.

On June 8, 1949, George Orwell published a novel describing a fictitious world gripped in the vise of constant war and a society held captive by the ever-watchful gaze of a shadowy totalitarian dictator known as "Big Brother." The book has since found relevance again and again in our modern world.
"Amazon's Movers & Shakers page, which tracks items with the biggest positive sales change over the past 24 hours. Sales of the Centennial Edition of the book, for instance, had increased by more than 4,000 percent as of Tuesday afternoon.

Then again . . .
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Guzzohm

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #115 on: August 25, 2013, 01:03:41 AM »
Huxley's "Brave New World" seems to be more accurate then Orwell's "1984" in regard to what might come our way.  Somewhere I recall a good comparison of the two.  Perhaps I can link to it later.
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iowarider

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #116 on: August 25, 2013, 05:44:06 AM »
Thanks for the tip. I'll find and read that one.
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AgentX

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #117 on: August 25, 2013, 06:10:52 AM »
Huxley's "Brave New World" seems to be more accurate then Orwell's "1984" in regard to what might come our way.

Absolutely.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #118 on: August 30, 2013, 04:25:28 PM »
Try "Atlas Shrugged".

Now eat your peas and pay your fair share.   
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #119 on: August 30, 2013, 05:09:11 PM »
Try "Atlas Shrugged".

Now eat your peas and pay your fair share.   

How much is 'fair'?

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2013, 06:03:08 PM »
I read Brave New World and 1984 back in the 50s. I thought then and still do that 1984 is the more accurate one!. I watch the movie now and than just to remind me that the news agencies and the media overall are the world's terrorist society!
the American media and the heads of our government are all pathological liars.
And Big Brother is watching you more and more on a daily basis.
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iowarider

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #121 on: September 02, 2013, 11:06:08 AM »
Ok, now i'm just going to bed and hide under the covers until morning.
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AgentX

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #122 on: September 02, 2013, 04:17:05 PM »
I read Brave New World and 1984 back in the 50s. I thought then and still do that 1984 is the more accurate one!. I watch the movie now and than just to remind me that the news agencies and the media overall are the world's terrorist society!
the American media and the heads of our government are all pathological liars.
And Big Brother is watching you more and more on a daily basis.
Bare

I dunno.  1984 showed people kept down brutally.  I think we're kept down, as much as someone else "keeps us down," moreso by distracting society with Miley Cyrus than by keeping people living in direct fear of the government.

Although the permanent state of war in 1984 and its uses in control are becoming pretty much today's norm, too...

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #123 on: September 02, 2013, 06:48:41 PM »
I think the brutality is coming. Initial signs and leading indicators of militarized police state are already there. They are ramping it up with our tax dollars while the currency still has some remaining value. In 40 years, they went from Andy of Mayberry to the Gestapo.
Doesn't bode well.
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #124 on: September 02, 2013, 10:19:50 PM »
lions and tigers and bears... oh my
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 05:59:21 PM by baird4444 »
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baird4444

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #126 on: October 12, 2013, 02:21:19 PM »
We came four votes away from the U.S. Senate giving our Constitutional rights over to the United Nations.
In a 53-46 vote, the Senate narrowly passed a measure that will stop the United States from entering into the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty.
The Statement of Purpose from the Bill reads:
"To uphold Second Amendment rights and prevent the United States from entering into the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty."
The U.N. Small Arms Treaty, which has been championed by the Obama Administration,
would have effectively placed a global ban on the import and export of small firearms.
The ban would have affected all private gun owners in the U.S.
and had language that would have implemented an international gun registry on all private guns and ammo.
Astonishingly, 46 out of our 100 United States Senators were willing to give away our Constitutional rights to a foreign power.
Here are the 46 senators who voted to give your rights to the U.N.
Baldwin (D-WI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennett (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Cowan (D-MA)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hirono (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
Folks: This needs to go viral. These Senators voted to let the UN take OUR guns.
They need to lose their next election.
We have been betrayed.
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ROVERMAN

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #127 on: October 12, 2013, 03:15:59 PM »
And only we can make the change.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #128 on: October 13, 2013, 02:56:51 AM »
Traitors.

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #129 on: October 13, 2013, 05:12:26 AM »
Last night I watched a doco by Jesse Ventura that showed large numbers of " residential " compounds surrounded by floodlights and barbed wire that have been built throughout the USA . They are administered by the department of homeland security in cahoots with all those privatised intelligence gathering outfits that have sprung up around your country since 9/11. If what he says is true it seems that the powers that be are preparing for civil unrest on a large scale, and you're all being profiled.it is truly scary stuff. The only scenario I can think off that could cause this is the consequences of climate change. If (and I mean if) what the ipcc tells us is true we can expect a breakdown of the supply chain in just about every area that matters , in the next 15-20 years as conditions change and crops fail . The big moneyed intrests seem determined not to address the carbon pollution issue because it undermines their business models. As much as I hope it's all not true , I am starting to fear for the future, and the world our kids inherit. Is Jesse Ventura credible? .
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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #130 on: October 13, 2013, 02:08:43 PM »
Last night I watched a doco by Jesse Ventura that showed large numbers of " residential " compounds surrounded by floodlights and barbed wire that have been built throughout the USA . They are administered by the department of homeland security in cahoots with all those privatised intelligence gathering outfits that have sprung up around your country since 9/11. If what he says is true it seems that the powers that be are preparing for civil unrest on a large scale, and you're all being profiled.it is truly scary stuff. The only scenario I can think off that could cause this is the consequences of climate change. If (and I mean if) what the ipcc tells us is true we can expect a breakdown of the supply chain in just about every area that matters , in the next 15-20 years as conditions change and crops fail . The big moneyed intrests seem determined not to address the carbon pollution issue because it undermines their business models. As much as I hope it's all not true , I am starting to fear for the future, and the world our kids inherit. Is Jesse Ventura credible? .
Aussie Dave,
This subject is a big "can of worms".  The things are real, but different people interpret them differently.  There are some people who view this as a good thing, because they feel comfortable with the idea that the government will "take care of them.". Others view it with great concern, because they are worried that the way the government will "take care of them" will amount to a tyrannical take over, and these compounds will become more like prisons than "housing".
Take your pick about what you think they will become. I know what I think. Given the track record of the way this government has behaved, I would suggest that the answer is clear.  One thing that is definitely clear is that this government has irresponsibly and/or corruptly run this nation onto the rocks of financial ruin, not to mention the social and moral paths of destruction that it has led us upon via the public "school" system and with the assistance of the lap dog media and Hollywood.
The government sees these conditions it has wrought,  and has been preparing for the eventual collapse which it has engineered. These things mentioned in your post, along with the alarming increase in power grabs by the government to tighten its grip on the people, and the unprecedented increases in the police-state apparatus, the purchases of billions of rounds of mostly handgun ammo that is not "warfare legal" and could only supply the ever increasing numbers of government agents now carrying side arms,  the "authorization" for the government to disregard due process of law and ignore all civil rights and indefinitely detain or incarcerate or even kill American citizens at its whim without charge or trial, and its now ubiquitous use of unmanned aerial drones to surveil and attack their desired targets inside or outside the US, among many other troubling issues, are all now a frightening reality here in the US.
This is a deep subject and this is just skimming the tip of the iceberg, as far as the amount of stuff that's going on under the surface, like we've recently seen with the revelation about the NSA surveillance and recording of everybody's phone calls and emails and storing them for whatever purposes they see fit to use them for in the future.
I would suggest that it's painfully clear that this government is taking a path right out of the book "1984".

Regarding Jesse Ventura, I think he is credible on some things, and not on others.

Regarding the "carbon dioxide" scam  that various governments and globalist agencies have been using to attempt to create a global taxation base and over-arching globalist control measures, that has been exposed as a fraud several years ago when the emails were leaked from various governmental and "scientific" agencies which revealed their collusion to falsify the results to achieve their intended goals of increased world domination by forced taxation based upon lies. This is a matter of record now, so I hope that will put that issue to bed, even though the perpetrators are still trying to pretend that they weren't caught red-handed, and are still trying to push carbon controls and taxes with the folks who don't pay attention and didn't hear about them faking it all.
The impending calamity that they are likely to use to move into this scary next stage is the financial collapse and failure of the monetary system, which will allow them to implement the "Continuity of  Government" plan which includes martial law to forcibly quell any dissent against the tyranny. Since the credibility of the "climate change" agenda has been compromised, it appears to me that the debt bubble and financial/monetary crises will most likely be the vehicle for the transition.

But, there are some people who think that all this is "for our benefit" and that the government should control our lives, because they know better than we do about what we are to do with our lives and families and wages.
I just don't happen to be one of them.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 03:18:56 PM by ace.cafe »
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single

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #131 on: October 13, 2013, 03:48:01 PM »
I had not heard of this Ventura revelation.
On other things that the "leaders" are doing,I believe there is a feeling in the control room that the next big thing will be a "nukyaler" devise detonated in at least one population center.
The resulting chaos would require a lot of control to quell the rapid breakdown of society.
From what I have seen,this is gonna happen at some point,or at least that is the current prognosis.
By the way,I now have a 4000 foot,8 inch thick runway in my side yard.
Local airport.Town has 5000 residents.There are about,say,10 "playplanes" living there.The Cesnas really need that,no?The C130s might,tho'.
Anyway,now I have a place to put that private jet I always wanted,and will be able to keep an eye on it.

D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #132 on: October 13, 2013, 04:53:46 PM »
Personally, I'm not sure if Ventura is a nutcase or just making profit off of stirring up cow pies, but I don't believe anything he says.  He's profiled places I've worked and he is way off base as to what they are and why they are being built.  He thinks storm drains under airports are secret government compounds for one.  They're just big storm drains built because all that concrete collects lots of water very fast in a downpour and it has to be run off quickly.  But hey, it can be as entertaining as that pouf haired guy talking about aliens.
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AussieDave

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #133 on: October 14, 2013, 12:43:46 PM »
Ace, thank you for such a considered and in depth response!  It is indeed a can of worms- and you've mentioned quite a few things that demand second look. I had no idea about the stockpiling of ammunition  by your govt. the stand off in congress I hope will be resolved before it comes to head , the implications of a U.S govt default could effect us all.
 To be honest , concerning climate change, there is such a huge body of science and papers documenting its effects on the Internet I find it difficult refute. I remember hearing about that e-mail leak but I don't know the details . I ll check it out .
 I've never been a fan of paternalistic governance either. I hope you have a plan to look after you and yours if something does go down. Don't post on the net!  :) Best regards Dave.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 12:46:41 PM by AussieDave »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #134 on: October 14, 2013, 07:16:32 PM »
Hi Dave,
This stuff is all inter-related with many other aspects of the global scheme.  There is no way to cover it all here, and the scope and depth are so large that it's hard to believe. Most of the pieces are "compartmentalized" so that most of the rank and file players are often not aware of the full plan. It takes much study to put the pieces together. I have been studying this for 35 years.

To briefly describe the "climate change" scam, you have to understand that years ago there were various plans hatched to take control of the world economy to a degree which would include forced compliance and forced taxation by a political body that held power over all the nations. Climate change was one of the plans. If you look back at the history of this, the first scare they tried was a "new ice age" and there were published articles in many media outlets about that back in tje 1970s. Then when that didn't catch on, they just kept "re-branding" it until they could get some traction for the idea. Part of how this was done involved the funding of the scientific community by the government grants to academia, and the grants from the major foundations and endowment organizations which fund most of science these days. These foundations are mostly comprised of globalists, and the government is beholden to the international bankers who are also globalists, and government has been infiltrated at all levels by these people over many years. So, it was easy to get the compliance of enough of the scientific community by simply funding the projects and people who would produce the results that they wanted. They control who gets funded, and it didn't take long for the news to get aroumd that if your scientific efforts were going to get a grant, then you were going to have to get on board with the agenda. In short, they corrupted enough scientists this way to claim a "consensus" and push their agenda forward. There's a whole lot more than that involved, but that's the short version in a nutshell.

Most of what is really going on today is hidden behind the scenes of a propaganda stage play which makes our reality a lot like the movie "The Matrix". The things we are told are part of a manufactured "reality" which explains current events with the slant that enables our acceptance of the agenda under false or manipulated pretenses by media or government spokespersons.

If you want the short answer for the "anthropogenic CO2 scare", a la "global warming", with all the terrifying extrapolations of world ending events, here it is.
The manipulation of the data was ubiquitous, and when data was not outright falsified or skewed, there were omissions of anything which didn't help their agenda.
To wit: most, if not all, of the agenda-driven charts on anthropogenic C02 focus on typically the 5 main "greenhouse gases", and C02 is one of them, although one of smallest in effect. However, the BIG omission is that these charts fail to mention water vapor as by far the primary factor in the "greenhouse effect". In fact, water vapor makes up at least 95% of the "greenhouse effect", with the other "greenhouse gases", making up the remaining 5% in combination. When breaking down the gases in the remaining 5%, CO2 is something like 1-2%, and most of that is naturally-occurring. The amount of anthropogenically driven CO2 comes out to about a quarter of a percent of the total. Of course, this would be totally swamped by ANY amount of daily fluctuation of water vapor in the atmosphere, to the extent that anthropogenic CO2 has basically negligible effect on the "greenhouse" of this planet's atmosphere.
But,... by cleverly omitting water vapor from the charts, it makes it appear that these "greenhouse gases" comprise the entire "greenhouse effect", when the truth is that they only comprise 5%. So these charts give the impression of a greatly exaggerated effect of CO2 and the other gases, which is exactly the impression that they wanted to give.
That's just one example.
They are just a bunch of crooks, and it's time to realize it. They aren't "saving they planet", they are trying to enslave us in their scheme of greed and control by duping people with fictitious arguments, and using their complicit media and gov't agencies to spread the lies to the public, so that we comply out of fear.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 09:32:23 PM by ace.cafe »
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ERC

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #135 on: October 14, 2013, 09:29:51 PM »
I'd like to know what happened to all the scientists that predicted we'd be totally out of oil and gas by 1980 in the 70s. I wonder if that was a fake report?  ::)  ERC
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #136 on: October 14, 2013, 09:41:05 PM »
I'd like to know what happened to all the scientists that predicted we'd be totally out of oil and gas by 1980 in the 70s. I wonder if that was a fake report?  ::)  ERC

Yes, they are still trying to push the "Peak Oil" theory. Also, they use Malthusian doctrine to weep and wail about overpopulation, and they are still pushing the Alien visitors/invasion stuff, which were all also plans that were hatched in the 1960s to provide ostensible cover for their schemes.

I don't say that there is never anything to pay attention to, in terms of human effects on anything on this planet. But, that is a lot different than the most powerful and wealthy people on Earth pushing a fear-driven agenda to drive everyone into their carefully-laid trap.
That's what I am concerned about.
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Arizoni

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #137 on: October 14, 2013, 10:16:42 PM »
And you didn't even mention the great "Freon scare" that is destroying the entire ozone layer which is the only thing that stands between us and certain death from the sun!

I hate to say it but the company I worked for had a finger in this pie and the R134a replacement was developed by them.  I'm sure that making money wasn't behind this though. :(

Oh, last I heard the ozone hole has magically shrunk in size.  Obviously this is because R12 Freon isn't available to the people in North America for less than $75/pound.
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Sam Simons

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #138 on: October 14, 2013, 11:12:34 PM »
"...I think the brutality is coming...."
Absolutely....count on old scores to be settled under the veil of disruption that will be taking place .....

baird4444

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2013, 12:01:19 AM »
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
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The_Rigger

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2013, 12:41:02 AM »
US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/14/us-army-defines-christian-ministry-as-domestic-hate-group/

Oh, that article isn't slanted at all, is it...   ::)
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AussieDave

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #141 on: October 27, 2013, 03:22:38 AM »
"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.

D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #142 on: October 27, 2013, 03:49:43 AM »
The Military didn't give itself anything.  Their actions are prescribed by 10 U.S.C. 375 - Restriction on direct participation by military personnel ( http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/USCODE-2010-title10/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap18-sec375/content-detail.html ), which states:
10 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2010 Edition
Title 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 18 - MILITARY SUPPORT FOR CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES
Sec. 375 - Restriction on direct participation by military personnel
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov

     
§375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel
 
The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
 
(Added Pub. L. 97–86, title IX §905(a)(1), Dec. 1, 1981, 95 Stat. 1116; amended Pub. L. 100–456, div. A, title XI, §1104(a), Sept. 29, 1988, 102 Stat. 2045; Pub. L. 101–189, div. A, title XII, §1211, Nov. 29, 1989, 103 Stat. 1567.)

DoD Instruction NUMBER 3025.21, February 27, 2013 (The subject of these news stories claiming the Military gave itself powers) is not US Code and not US Law.  It is a guidance created by directive of 10 U.S.C. 375 and can only be applied under Title 10, which pretty much states the military can only protect Gov property and maintain order in Gov installations without direct orders of the President to do anything beyond that.

It's alarm raising over something that isn't what the authors are claiming.
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AussieDave

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #143 on: October 27, 2013, 04:51:41 AM »
 Thanks D the D,I am glad that's the case.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2013, 12:30:21 PM »
Thanks D the D,I am glad that's the case.

It's not very reassuring to me.
The gov't knows that it has run this country into a debt hole that it can never get out of, and that it has debased the currency about as far as it can. These corrupt politicians and bureaucrats want to maintain their spending and power bases, and they have already proven many times that they will over-reach their authorized powers in order to get what they want. In other words, they will use the force of gov't to take whatever they want from us, to maintain their positions of power over us.
This is going to result in blowback from the people, and they know it, and they have been ramping up the Police State sector for a number of years now in anticipation of it. They plan to "quell" anybody who doesn't submit.
It's going to happen because the gov't is going to bring it. No matter how pacificistic a person is, and how hard they try to stay out of the gov't's way, the gov't is going to keep coming and coming until they own everything and control everybody completely, essentially as debt-slaves. There is no other option for gov't. It is out of money, and all it has left as a "remedy" is more theft of whatever pittance remains of the people's money, backed-up by violent force.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 12:41:06 PM by ace.cafe »
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cyrusb

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2013, 01:22:21 PM »
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone's NOT out to get you.

baird4444

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #146 on: December 05, 2013, 03:36:08 PM »
Illegal code hidden from view on the Obamacare website .... unbelievable!
 

watch this(it's pretty short). It's very revealing as to the type of government we currently have :
 
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOk0vOup4yA
 
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #147 on: December 05, 2013, 03:49:27 PM »
Illegal code hidden from view on the Obamacare website .... unbelievable!
 

watch this(it's pretty short). It's very revealing as to the type of government we currently have :
 
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOk0vOup4yA

Looks almost like a replay of the IRS hearings.
It's pervasive throughout the government.
Scratch the surface, and find a hive of corruption. And these things are just tiny glimpses of what is actually going on under the surface that we never get to find out about.

As I have heard it said before, "It's the largest and most powerful organized crime syndicate on the planet".
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 03:54:10 PM by ace.cafe »
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #148 on: December 05, 2013, 07:28:22 PM »
Quote
US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'

I thought that was the media, or they just the 'Domestic Terrorist Group'?
Bare
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2013, 01:32:34 AM »
Ms Campbell is just window dressing and lives in a cloud...business as usual on capitol hill...wait till that other moron gets behind the curtain....u haven't seen nothing yet.
Oh Magoo you done it again

The Garbone

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #150 on: December 17, 2013, 03:22:56 AM »
Here we go.   

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022469957_medicaidrecoveryxml.html

What the hell type of convoluted mess this place becoming.   Anyone for more of this mess needs their head examined..
Gary
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mplayle

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #151 on: December 17, 2013, 04:10:37 AM »
More of the results of the 2700 pages of law that had to be passed before anyone could know what was in it - the ultimate "sight unseen" purchase by our Congress/Senate.

To top it off, 3+ years later, everyone is still trying to learn what was in that mess - including its authors!

gmmechanic

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #152 on: December 24, 2013, 03:03:21 AM »
Paranoia strikes deep.into your heart it will creep..it starts when your always alone...step out of line thell come and take you away...buffaloe springfield 1967 i think...All animals are equal but some are more equal than others...george orwell...just thoughts...uh oh i think the brain police are knocking >:( >:(
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1 Thump

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2014, 11:01:12 PM »

Arizoni

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2014, 04:41:56 AM »
Ya don't think some of the environmentalists who do illegal things in this country in the name of "protecting the environment",  might not want  anyone listening in on their conversations do you?  :o
Jim
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #155 on: June 28, 2014, 02:45:57 PM »
I heard they are about to officially turn on that new NSA facility that has the potential to listen and store every conversation on the planet (Not sure if that's entirely  true but probably close) ...I can't even imagine the rows of servers, hubs, screens, fiber/cat6 trunks , encryption platforms and Como infrastructure in that place to intercept , process and store the data...I bet the cafeteria serves great food at a decent price.....If they get hungry up there in that blimp they can always ease on down and have some chow with the employees   :o....Just mind boggling what can be done these days in a relatively short period of time.. 8).. 8) GM
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bob bezin

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #156 on: July 31, 2014, 04:50:00 PM »
unlimited time and tax money.
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tooseevee

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #157 on: July 31, 2014, 09:41:53 PM »
More of the results of the 2700 pages of law that had to be passed before anyone could know what was in it - the ultimate "sight unseen" purchase by our Congress/Senate.

To top it off, 3+ years later, everyone is still trying to learn what was in that mess - including its authors!

       As of now, it has cost us right around $850 Million just for the Obamacarewebsite that STILL isn't working correctly (& never will). And most of the numbers coming out of ANY of their mouths are lies. As is true of just about ANY number coming out of Washington about ANYthing. When you don't have ANY information, you cannot decide what is truth & what is lies. That's what they want.
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #158 on: July 31, 2014, 09:46:11 PM »
This is the "CHANGE" that Obummer promised you. Hope you're happy!
Bare
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gizzo

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #159 on: August 01, 2014, 05:03:12 AM »
You lucky devils,you're about to lose the right even to fly a model aeroplane as you see fit. See the FAA's statement on it. They're apparently not even authorised to make this law, but mister obama is gonna let them anyway. Toy planes for gods sake. Drone paranoia in the states is behind it and nothing will be done because modellers aren't a bunch of scary mofos like the NRA. Good luck.
simon from south Australia
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barenekd

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #160 on: August 01, 2014, 06:47:58 PM »
I just fly controlline, but they'll probably throw it in the ban, too, as the idiots are too stupid to know the difference!
Bare
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gizzo

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #161 on: August 01, 2014, 10:58:47 PM »
Was thinking as I was typing, "control line will probably make a huge comeback in the state soon. Happy days for Brodak et al ".
simon from south Australia
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pushrod

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #162 on: August 06, 2014, 08:23:00 AM »
 I guess I'll have to finish building that Nobler I started so long ago  :D
Pushrod
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