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Author Topic: Big Brother...  (Read 5284 times)

t120rbullet

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2013, 10:11:13 PM »
Yesterday afternoon I composed a 3 paragraph post about for this thread but did not hit post and went to dinner.  When I got done I reread it and decided just to delete the thing, just so depressing...

Kevin always said that the best e-mails are the ones that never got sent.

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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2013, 02:01:34 AM »
...Should have voted for Ron Paul when we had a chance ! His son, has his rhetoric ....but does he have his conviction ?...
Google "Ron Paul Congress Pork Recipient" and you'll see why I ignored him from day one - hypocrisy seems to apply to every party and every Congressman seeking reelection or the Presidency.  There is no Moses trying to lead us out of this mess, only those manipulating.
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REpozer

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2013, 02:54:56 AM »
Humm,...this was in "1984"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jxaune1z3k

Freaky, prophetic,..
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 03:00:01 AM by REpozer »
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AgentX

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2013, 04:17:14 AM »
The reality of the future is a lot closer to "Brave New World," I think, than "1984."

ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2013, 10:14:33 AM »
Google "Ron Paul Congress Pork Recipient" and you'll see why I ignored him from day one - hypocrisy seems to apply to every party and every Congressman seeking reelection or the Presidency.  There is no Moses trying to lead us out of this mess, only those manipulating.

This "pork" subject that has been circulated around about Ron Paul is a distortion.
It revolves around a misunderstanding of "earmarks" in a budget bill.
"Earmarks" are what are attached to a budget bill after the discretionary spending figure is already built-in to the budget. That money is already going to get spent somewhere. The "earmarks" are for Congressmen to include their district's needs in that spending. It's the way the budget bills are designed.

Now, the confusion comes in when people mistakenly think that if these "earmarks" are cut or eliminated, that the money will be saved. This is incorrect. Any money in that fund that is not "earmarked" is not saved. Non-earmarked funds are shifted to the Presidential discretionary funding for the President to spend as he wishes, thus circumventing any of that money coming back to the states.
Ron Paul's record is to include earmarks for his district as the process allows, and then votes against the final budget bill.

This issue has been raised many times as a red-herring, but it won't stick with anyone who understands the process. If RP never earmarked anything, it would never save one thin dime from being spent by Congress. It would just go elsewhere.
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The_Rigger

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2013, 08:12:44 PM »
238 years ago, Benjamin Franklin wrote,
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
It looks like ole' Ben wouldn't like what is going on now in Washington.

Probably not, but not for the reason you're thinking of...

http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/07/what-ben-franklin-really-said/
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Arizoni

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2013, 10:49:54 PM »
The author has his opinion and I have mine.

When a author starts by explaining he has an agenda as does this one when he says,
"I started looking into this quotation because I am writing a frontal attack on the idea that liberty and security exist in some kind of “balance” with one another..." he has acknowledged his viewpoints will be biased.
Biased viewpoints rarely make a fair presentation of history often leaving out important information which would conflict with their goal.

Being interested in the history of the F/I and Revolutionary war as I am, I do understand those times and the author of the paper you linked makes a very debatable conclusion.

Be that as it may, the wisdom of Franklins' written remark holds true for the conditions of today as well as those when it was written, even if the two are different.

We have a right to privacy in this Nation and to give up even a small part of that right to gain what some believe to be an increased security is a mistake.

Once even a small part of a right is given up to a government for any reason it will never be willingly returned.
Jim
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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2013, 12:04:32 AM »
Once even a small part of a right is given up to a government for any reason it will never be willingly returned.
AMEN!
And Ace, I'm against any earmarking for districts of any state.   Asking for ones' own district rather than another's district is all the same to me.  My brother lives in RP's district so I hear your argument, just don't agree.  But that's why Americans can debate and not look over their shoulder.  Well, uh, we shouldn't have too. LOL
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 12:10:27 AM by D the D »
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The_Rigger

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2013, 12:26:14 AM »
When a author starts by explaining he has an agenda as does this one when he says,
"I started looking into this quotation because I am writing a frontal attack on the idea that liberty and security exist in some kind of “balance” with one another..." he has acknowledged his viewpoints will be biased.
Biased viewpoints rarely make a fair presentation of history often leaving out important information which would conflict with their goal.

True, but *all* "viewpoints" are biased, one way or another, including yours and mine. That's why they're expressed as points of view and not as "facts."  I've yet to meet a truly unbiased viewpoint.  At least this author admitted his biases.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2013, 11:45:02 AM »
AMEN!
And Ace, I'm against any earmarking for districts of any state.   Asking for ones' own district rather than another's district is all the same to me.  My brother lives in RP's district so I hear your argument, just don't agree.  But that's why Americans can debate and not look over their shoulder.  Well, uh, we shouldn't have too. LOL

Without earmarks, all the discretionary funding would automatically go to the President's fund.

To change this, the way that Congress writes budget bills would need to be changed completely. This is why RP votes against the final budget bills, because he doesn't agree with the process. But if the other Congressmen are going to pass a bill like that, then he's not going to have his district penalized.

There is a good argument to be made that every single dollar in the budget should be "earmarked" so that no slush funds are created, and that the money is not sent to the President's slush fund.

My preference would be that ALL funds remain in the states, and the absolute minimum possible funding sent to the Federal government.

Regarding RP, his record of fiscal responsibility is legendary over the last 30 years, and he has the most conservative voting record of any Congressman since 1937. He also returned a significant portion of his Congressional salary back to the Treasury every year. It's interesting that certain critics pick him to attack over the "earmarks" issue, when virtually ALL the other legislators are much easier targets for their wasteful spending activity. Basically, they had to make an issue out of this for RP, because he is so spotless that they had nothing else to attack, and the establishment had to try to marginalize him because they could not allow his policies of freedom and liberty to take hold in the Republican Party.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:49:15 PM by ace.cafe »
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baird4444

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2013, 12:51:45 AM »


                        http://www.youtube.com/v/AHrZgS-Gvi4
more fuel for the fire.....
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GreenMachine

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2013, 02:20:20 AM »
The american people have lost interest...they have the florida trial to absorb themselves in..we don't deserve to be free anymore..That being stated, the powers to be  will continue at a increase pace to enhance their capabilities...Nothing can be done to reverse course...full steam ahead... :o
Oh Magoo you done it again

AussieDave

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2013, 04:22:20 AM »
i am interested to know what you guys think of the actions of assange and snowden.did they act in the finest tradition of civil disobedience or do you see them traitors to the state? i tend to see them in the former light,but then again it wasn't my countrys cat that was let out of the bag. interested to hear your perspective, and also the feeling about private mannings trial. thoughts?
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D the D

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #73 on: June 25, 2013, 04:13:42 PM »
i am interested to know what you guys think of the actions of assange and snowden.did they act in the finest tradition of civil disobedience or do you see them traitors to the state? i tend to see them in the former light,but then again it wasn't my country's cat that was let out of the bag. interested to hear your perspective, and also the feeling about private mannings trial. thoughts?
They appear to have broken the law, all three of them.  There is a system in place for "Whistle Blowing" which they chose not to use.  Whether they couldn't trust the system or why they chose their paths is irrelevant until they get a day in court.   A judge and jury should decide if they are actually guilty or not and if there were extenuating circumstances for their actions which should be taken into account.  Whatever one's views on it, we've already judged them through media, which isn't the proper place.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Big Brother...
« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2013, 04:35:21 PM »
The government broke the law on a massive scale.
The traitors are those who authorized and operated the criminal spying network aimed at victimizing every single American citizen, and many other innocent victims outside the US too.
Exposing the criminal elements which have infiltrated our government structures is no crime.
Rhetoric to"criminalize" the whistle-blowers are merely weak attempts to swerve the attention away from the real guilty parties that engaged in this secret war being waged against the American people by its own government personnel.

These government "officials" who have proven that they flagrantly disregard the
Constitution and the rights of the people, have shown that they consider themselves above the law and outside the law, and that they believe their corruption is to be protected by further abuses of their power.
They have broken the contract with the people, lost all credibility, and the only way to restoration is to abolish the secret systems and networks that they have constructed against the American people, and bring a clear demonstration of transparency back to government. The "national security blanket" is being used to protect criminals and their actions from being seen by the people.

I would support fully open and televised criminal trials-by-jury for all the government officials involved, from the top right down to the bottom, with full public disclosure of every single thing they did. And treason charges would certainly be appropriate, not for "aiding" the enemy, but for "being" the enemy. As the oath describes: protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies,  foreign AND DOMESTIC.
It does NOT read: protect the corrupt cabal members from being found out and prosecuted for their crimes against the Constitution and humanity.
They all took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not to trample it into the dirt, along with oppressing all the American people too.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 05:58:59 PM by ace.cafe »
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