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Author Topic: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!  (Read 1150 times)

wokka

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Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« on: December 11, 2012, 08:14:44 AM »
Not the way I like to do it, but I just got told I'm in London for 2 days on the 20th so its a good time to go shopping.
While I'm ripping out the wiring harness for the carb conversion, I want to simplify and pretty up the loom.

Now, with the carb conversion, can I run a boyer battery eliminator and have the bike kick only? Or am I better off running a tiny (1.2ah) gel cell in the toolbox and just delete and plug off the starter?

The bike has finally landed but is still in customs, so I cant check myself, what type of connector is on the other end of the HT lead?
I will be running the old brass ring type connectors with a thumb screw at the plugs with cotton braided leads.
I've also found brass plug fins, brass cable buckle clips and black braided sleeving for the loom.

I'd rather not swap out the connectors, so I'm on the lookout for anything that can be used to cover the existing multi connectors, but still give me access when I need it, any suggestions?


gremlin

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 04:07:27 PM »
.....................any suggestions?

Don't do it.   The EFI is superior in every way to a carb.   If there is a problem with your EFI,  swap the controller with a microsquirt.
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
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1966 Sears (puch) 250


wokka

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 07:45:23 PM »
Don't do it.   The EFI is superior in every way to a carb.   If there is a problem with your EFI,  swap the controller with a microsquirt.

Except performance...

Speaking only for the indian market bikes here, as I cant talk about the export spec bikes.
The ecu is a piece of garbage, the maps aren't much better, they are on their third remap already and don't seem any closer to getting it right.
I know the Enfield isn't a racer, but imo a 500 single should be putting out more ponies than that, and I'm interested to see how far it will go.
I have tried searching for performance through the efi with a power commander and dyno tuning, but in the end, I had to drop the tuned length intake as the ecu even with the power commander couldn't provide enough fuel.
I figure I've dumped enough money into that route to pay for the carb conversion twice.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 07:54:41 PM »
EFI is more efficient and better in many ways but carbs are still much easier for the average hobby mechanic to tune and tinker with, especially if you're making performance engine mods.  My EFI works well and I love that the bike starts up first try no matter the weather.  That doesn't mean it's for everyone.  And I'd say this goes double for the RE where the usual EFI tuning method (Power Commander) has shown some significant issues so far.

Scott

wokka

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 08:42:14 PM »
Forgot to add that I have no problems with cold weather starting, seeing as it doesn't get cold here, add to that, the nearest RE dealer/service center is a 1 hour plane ride away in another country.

Back on topic though,
Does anyone know of a easy to source bakelite or similar clip or screw together box that's about the right size to cover a modern multi pin connector?

1 Thump

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 10:38:31 PM »
FYI: Ace.Cafe is working on a programmable add on module with racedynamics folks in India. You may just want to hang in there. I hope I never have to buy a bike with a carburetor again (although those interceptors, muskets and cannonballs are very tempting). Where I live the daily temps fluctuate about 30-35 degrees. Its impossible to keep your bike in full tune in that kind of climate (you could get by by jetting for the coldest weather and just riding it rich all summer), however with an EFI once its done its good for life (of the EFI).

wokka

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 10:01:43 AM »
I've been talking with Ace for a while, and I will be keeping all the gear to swap the bike back to EFi when it comes time to export her back to Aus, but while I'm in the middle east, carb seems the way to go

ace.cafe

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 12:42:57 PM »
The EFI works better and at most advantage when it is mapped and tuned properly to get the most out of the engine.
A poorly implemented EFI is not better than a carburetor.
But a properly implemented EFI can be better than a carburetor.

The EFI on the UCE is there to get it past emission control standards.
I seriously doubt that it is performing at any higher level than a carburetor for performance purposes, in its current application. But, it may have potential.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 05:19:51 PM »
Tom
If you can get the EFI to work right, an entry level package with proprietary filter, exhaust and EFI would be a great bang for the buck mod.

gremlin

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 05:52:11 PM »
.........the ecu even with the power commander couldn't provide enough fuel......

Higher rate injectors are available.

no argument about the stock ECU ........  it *is* junk.   However, there are Open Source controllers (microsquirt comes to mind) that are blank slates with all the development tools needed to custom map a machine.

the only missing bits are : knowledge & a dynamometer 
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


ace.cafe

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 06:12:55 PM »
Tom
If you can get the EFI to work right, an entry level package with proprietary filter, exhaust and EFI would be a great bang for the buck mod.

I don't know what's going to shake out of all these options at the end.

I agree that a tuned-up ECU with a free-flow kit would be a nice entry-level package.
We'll just have to see how things go.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 06:49:19 PM »
Tom
If you can get the EFI to work right, an entry level package with proprietary filter, exhaust and EFI would be a great bang for the buck mod.

+1, really just getting the most you can out of the stock engine by freeing up the breathing and mapping the EFI for performance instead of emissions limits.

Scott

mattsz

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 08:08:46 PM »
no argument about the stock ECU ........  it *is* junk...

The ECU is junk?  :o

Umm...  if that's so, why are so many people pointing us prospective buyers towards the UCE bikes?

Arizoni

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 09:40:21 PM »
That's a good question.

The junk ECU on my bike starts it without frinkeling with the choke or tickler even on a cold morning.
It is giving me fairly consistent fuel mileage of 69-79 mpg.
It self adjusts itself for altitude when I ride around at 1200 feet or 8000 feet and anywhere in between.
It seems to know the engine temperature and adjusts the fuel/air ratio to keep from fouling my spark plug.
It helps the engine put out over 6 horsepower more than a Iron Barrel or AVL without hesitation when the throttle is snapped open quickly and the engine is allowed to rev.


Pretty crappy if you ask me.   ;D
Jim
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 10:17:54 PM »
Couple of things here...

The IDM ECU is open loop and has been remapped by the factory several times.  The export ECU is closed loop and has had no such issues.  Remember that some of our members are in India and they do have legitimate problems.

I agree with Arizoni, my bike starts first time every time regardless of ambient and engine temps and never runs rich or lean.  It runs and responds smoothly in all riding conditions I've been in on the street.  That kind of reliability and consistency may not qualify as 'performance' in everyone's opinion but it's what most riders need most of the time.

Does it get the best performance from the rest of the motor?  No, it's programmed for a compromise of usability and meeting emissions standards.  Can it be easily remapped?  No.  Is it, along with the fuel injector, up to the task of easily providing gobs more fuel that may be needed by a highly modified engine.  Don't think so.

The stock ECU for export models seems to do a very good job of running the stock bike/engine for most riding conditions a rider would experience.  I only recall reading about one failure.  Just because it won't easily tend to the care and feeding of the hot rodded engine you dream up doesn't make it junk.

Scott

gremlin

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2012, 10:27:43 PM »
...................It seems to know the engine temperature and adjusts the fuel/air ratio to keep from fouling my spark plug..................

As long as your sidestand switch is disconnected.
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


mattsz

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2012, 11:54:00 PM »
As long as your sidestand switch is disconnected.

+1!!!

wokka

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 08:06:42 AM »
The ECU is junk?  :o

Umm...  if that's so, why are so many people pointing us prospective buyers towards the UCE bikes?

The Indian market ECU is junk, I cant comment on the Euro spec.

That's a good question.

The junk ECU on my bike starts it without frinkeling with the choke or tickler even on a cold morning.
It is giving me fairly consistent fuel mileage of 69-79 mpg.
It self adjusts itself for altitude when I ride around at 1200 feet or 8000 feet and anywhere in between.
It seems to know the engine temperature and adjusts the fuel/air ratio to keep from fouling my spark plug.
It helps the engine put out over 6 horsepower more than a Iron Barrel or AVL without hesitation when the throttle is snapped open quickly and the engine is allowed to rev.


Pretty crappy if you ask me.   ;D

Indian market

Couple of things here...

The IDM ECU is open loop and has been remapped by the factory several times.  The export ECU is closed loop and has had no such issues.  Remember that some of our members are in India and they do have legitimate problems.

I agree with Arizoni, my bike starts first time every time regardless of ambient and engine temps and never runs rich or lean.  It runs and responds smoothly in all riding conditions I've been in on the street.  That kind of reliability and consistency may not qualify as 'performance' in everyone's opinion but it's what most riders need most of the time.

Does it get the best performance from the rest of the motor?  No, it's programmed for a compromise of usability and meeting emissions standards.  Can it be easily remapped?  No.  Is it, along with the fuel injector, up to the task of easily providing gobs more fuel that may be needed by a highly modified engine.  Don't think so.

The stock ECU for export models seems to do a very good job of running the stock bike/engine for most riding conditions a rider would experience.  I only recall reading about one failure.  Just because it won't easily tend to the care and feeding of the hot rodded engine you dream up doesn't make it junk.

Scott

I don't think I'm asking too much from the motor, I don't want a high reving, balls to the wall, right on the limit motor,

I want a motor that makes its power more in line with its capacity, (hell, other long stroke 500 singles pre WWII were making 50% more power than the UCE)
A motor that runs on stock, or as close to stock internals without sacrificing longevity
I want a motor that doesn't misread the engine RPM above 4500 and spike as high as 12000
I want a motor that with no dealer support, can be easily serviced, maintained and tuned in my garage
And if I need to sacrifice the EFI to get that, then that's what I have to do.

I'm really confused why as soon as the issue of power comes up, everyone seems to get their panties in a bunch. I'm no Enfield purist, the two reasons I bought the bike were style and price

ace.cafe

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 11:53:27 AM »
Wokka,
In your situation, there would be no problem with going the carburetor route.
The people here in the US are in a different situation, and they like what they are getting from the export ECU/EFI, and don't want a carb.

But, if YOU want a carburetor, so you can get what you want from the bike, then you can put one on. It's YOUR decision what you run on your bike.

The ECU will still limit you to the rev limit in terms of rpms, by the ignition control. But to rev higher than the rev limit might require some other mods to parts which that limiter is protecting right now. So it will have to be a more "overall" type of approach than just a carb.

If you want to discuss the applications for a carburetor while still retaining the ECU ignition functions, just email me and we can talk about it.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:05:31 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

gremlin

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Re: Wiring, connectors and HT leads Oh My!
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2012, 01:29:12 PM »
..........The people here in the US are in a different situation, and they like what they are getting from the export ECU/EFI..........

I'm fairly confident that we'd all like to raise the torque curve above 4000 rpm.
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250