Menu

Members Rides

MVPA Convoy Military


in
Members Rides

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 20, 2014, 06:33:06 PM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?  (Read 982 times)

B5er

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: 0
2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« on: December 29, 2012, 07:30:18 PM »
Hi,

I need to examine my starter solenoid to see if it's the reason my relay switch buzzes and my bike won't start. Brand new battery in, still buzzing. Must be solenoid. But where is it on a 2011 RE?

Also, are there any other solutions to starting the bike easily without lots of wire tampering?

Thanks!

shamelin

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 11:39:39 PM »
Do you get power when you turn your key?

If everything is dead on your bike, make absolutely sure that the cables are intact.  I had a total electrical failure and spent hours trying to figure out what was wrong, only to discover that the negative cable was connected to the battery by the rubber insulating cap and the actual connector had broken.

If the battery works (you get power but the bike won't start), then you should be able to either kick start it or pop the clutch.

mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1810
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 07:31:45 AM »
If everything is dead on your bike, make absolutely sure that the cables are intact.  I had a total electrical failure and spent hours trying to figure out what was wrong, only to discover that the negative cable was connected to the battery by the rubber insulating cap and the actual connector had broken.

+1 for sure.

B5er, there was a recent discussion about this.  Solenoid vs. relay, where is it, etc.  I got confused when Arizoni posted a pic here:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,15551.msg167787.html#msg167787

showing what turns out to be his starter solenoid, snuggled right up next to his battery.  Mine isn't there - on my B5 I found it aft and inboard of my battery, under the seat, so you could look there.  Seems they change location on different bikes.

Further useful advice from Arizoni:

Find the large red wire connected to the + terminal of the battery.

Follow it.  It will lead you to the solenoid.  If you loose track of it, start at the starter motor and follow the large wire.  It will lead you to the other side of the solenoid.

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4835
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 10:19:23 AM »
Just follow the big wire off the positive post on the battery. It's first stop is the solenoid.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

B5er

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 10:41:43 AM »
Ah, good. I'll look in those places. 

When I turn the key on, the lights come on. When I flip the start switch, the starter relay switch buzzes and then stops. Then when I try the electric start, it tries to turn over and fails.

And it won't kick-start either.

Arizoni

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 0
  • "But it's a dry heat here in Arizona
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 01:25:33 PM »
While your having fun following the big red wire from the + terminal on the battery, follow the big black wire too.
On some bikes this black ground wire isn't making a good contact with the frame and that can cause the weak electrical power your bike seems to have.

Failing to start with the kick starter is rather unusual.
Is the computer booting up and the red light going out when the key is first turned on?
Can you hear the fuel pump operating for a few seconds when the key is first turned on?
Are you nudging the piston up against the compression to TDC before you give it a stout kick?

Very odd.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

B5er

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 01:43:41 PM »
While your having fun following the big red wire from the + terminal on the battery, follow the big black wire too.
On some bikes this black ground wire isn't making a good contact with the frame and that can cause the weak electrical power your bike seems to have.

Failing to start with the kick starter is rather unusual.
Is the computer booting up and the red light going out when the key is first turned on?
Can you hear the fuel pump operating for a few seconds when the key is first turned on?
Are you nudging the piston up against the compression to TDC before you give it a stout kick?

Very odd.

General observations/methods (w/brand new battery):

1. Key turned in ignition = starter relay switch buzzes and then stops, neutral light on, headlight on, engine light on (stays on). Horn works, signals work, etc.
2. Electric start engaged = incomplete engine turnover (it tries).
3. Kickstart = nothing but a short thump (all lights mentioned above are still on).
4. Relay starter switch unplugged = all lights/dials on, same incomplete engine turnover, kickstart has same issues.

Observations upon further investigation of solenoid/wires:

I took my seat off, found the solenoid starter unit mounted to the frame (the two bolts holding it to the frame were different sizes!). Took it off, and found that the copper-colored piece of the assembly that fits into the black plastic part the wires from the battery, etc. run into are SUPERGLUED together. They cannot be separated. So, I have no idea how I would even check within the assembly for problems. Yay. All other wires and various things are mounted properly and appear normal. 

Looks like a tow to my dealer 100 miles away is in order. Great.  :P 



barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4835
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 01:49:54 PM »
There is some Superglue solvent on the market that will soften up the glue.
Find some and try that. Craft and hobby shops usually carry it.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1810
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 04:59:23 PM »
General observations/methods (w/brand new battery):

1. Key turned in ignition = starter relay switch buzzes and then stops, neutral light on, headlight on, engine light on (stays on)...

B5er - I'm basically clueless about this stuff, but I haven't gotten past #1: isn't the engine light supposed to go off after the system "boots" up?  If it stays on, it's telling you it knows there's a problem.  Find the "flash codes" and see what it tells you?

Royalista

  • phaneropter
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 718
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 06:38:35 PM »
Hope I'm stating the obvious but:
bike is on center stand and sidestand retracted?
It puzzles me that kickstart won't work. But it won't if the sidestand is still out.

And yes the engine light should go out before you either ES or KS (new english  ;))

Superglue will also yield to heat; a handheld hairdryer might work as assistant to solvent.

moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

mplayle

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 08:40:27 PM »
For solvent, try fingernail polish remover.

Arizoni

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 0
  • "But it's a dry heat here in Arizona
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 10:19:18 PM »
I see no reason for trying to take apart the starter solenoid until other things are tried so messing with heat or anything else doesn't make any sense to me.
B5er said, "2. Electric start engaged = incomplete engine turnover (it tries)".
If it "tries", the solenoid is closing and completing the circuit but there isn't enough electrical power to drive the motor or the motor is defective.

It is possible that the solinoid is defective and is not passing enough current to operate the starter motor but this can be determined by running a piece of very heavy gauge wire directly from the battery to the terminal on the starter motor that the cable from the starter solenoid connects to.
If the solenoid isn't passing enough current, bypassing it with this heavy wire should cause the starter motor to instantly come to life.  (This assumes the battery has a good ground connection).

As Mattsz noted, the fact that the engine light is staying ON indicates the computer has found something is wrong.
Until the error is determined and corrected it is no wonder the engine won't start.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1810
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 04:25:56 AM »
General observations/methods (w/brand new battery)...

Brand new?  Double check it.  Didn't someone here recently purchase and install what turned out to be a defective battery and have similar trouble?  The battery was exchanged and all was well.

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4835
  • Karma: 0
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 11:28:46 AM »

Have you removed the headlight jumper yet? There is a short jumper wire in the casquette in the left side connector boot that its removal will allow the light switch on the right handlebar switchbox to work. That will allow you to turn off the lights and be able to mess with the electricals without the lights dragging the battery down. The jumper and the main wire have red and white connectors with about 10 pins with about 4" of wire between them. Remove the short one and plug the long ones together. I think the jumper has the red connectors, but I wouldn't swear to that, it's been awhile since I pulled mine out.
Just take a pair of pliers and use them to jump between the two studs on the solenoid. You don't even need the switch on for this. The starter should activate. If it doesn't, you have a battery (or starter) problem.
As far as kick starting goes if you've been messing with the electric starter trying to get it started before you started kicking it, it's probably flooded.
Every time you turn the switch on, it primes the cylinder. Every time you hit the starter, it primes the cylinder, every time you kick it , it primes the cylinder. It doesn't take long to flood the engine.
And check your engine light codes.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

Arizoni

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 0
  • "But it's a dry heat here in Arizona
Re: 2011 B5 Starter Solenoid Location?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 05:03:02 PM »
B5er:  As bare was saying, get the headlight switch working.
Inside the headlight nacelle behind the headlight you will find the short jumper wire that bypasses the headlight switch.
 
The headlight jumper is about 4 inches long and it has white connectors on both ends.
These are each plugged into red connectors.
Remove the short jumper with the white ends and then plug the two remaining red connectors together and suddenly, the headlight switch on the right hand grip will work.
With the switch working the lights can be in the OFF, PARKING or HEADLIGHT position.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary