Extreme Medical Bills

[1 Thump]

Here is an insightful look into the healthcare industry, and the logic defying cost of healthcare:

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

[barenekd]

This crap has been going on for decades. I've received the bills my insurance paid for my crash. Other than laying in the hospital for for days and taking an occasional pan pill and eating some bad food, they pretty much did nothing other than waking me up every hour at night. The initial bill was over $60,000 but my insurance beat them down to a lot less, nearly 50% on their charges. Had I had to pay it, I'm sure I would've been stuck with all of it! As it were, it didn't cost me anything.
But these ridiculous charges for the tiniest thing has been going on for years. It boggles my mind. Remind me of oil companies. If they can gouge you, they will!
Bare

[REdmonton]

When I read articles like this I appreciate living in Canada. Two years ago I spent a week in the hospital and it cost me nothing. We do have issues around wait times, but generally we have very good health care. It is one of the things I would not give up for anything.

[Desi Bike]

I'm happy to be Canadian as well. No health care bill to pay. When I spent a decade or so driving long haul tractor trailer in the states, it amazed me to see people with bum legs or screwed up self treated medical issues. The gold mine in the American pocket runs deep. Yes a lot of our doctors have left to the pillage of the American pocket book, as have nurses by the droves. Living close to the border of Detroit in the sunny south of Canada, I have a few friends in the medical community that head north every morning into Detroit to work in US medical complexes. Better pay for staffers than in Ontario. The only bill we get here for a hospital stay is for..... (get this.....)
the rental of the tv if you don't have your own laptop to watch tv or whatever on.

[single]

Glad you guys are happy in Canada.Seriously.

[Sunbeem]

When I hear a transatlantic voice here in England, I've learned to ask the owner if they are Canadian, rather than American. This is because I've noticed that Americans don't mind being mistaken for Canadians, but the opposite does not always apply.
The differences between the two are usually hard for us foreigners to spot, but occasionally, as with the situation with firearms and healthcare, it is obvious that there's definitely a case of "ne'er the twain shall meet" going on. A vestigal remnant of a previous empire, side by side with the currently dominant empire, make for interesting comparisons.

When Britain was busily plundering the known world, er... bringing civilisation to the ignorant ungrateful masses, I suspect our health service was also a bit patchy, but now we have sorted that out by having targets.

Targets are what you need.

 We have a target that says a new arrival at hospital must be seen within a certain time, (good idea eh?) so if you are rushed to hospital with blood pouring out of your ears and your leg falling off, if you are shunted into a car park upon arrival it's because admitting you straight away would mean you'd have to wait too long IN the hospital, and you'd spoil the target. Waiting out in the car park, you have not officially arrived, and you'll be kept there until things have settled down in the waiting room. Don't worry though, you can wait as long as you like -- the ambulance doesn't cost you a penny!

This keeps the targets hunky-dory, and anyway, you shouldn't have been riding a motorcycle - don't you know that doctors refer to us as "Donors"?
 
Our local hospital is being investigated due to some monumental blunders coming reluctantly to light. I go daily to visit my step-father. I can tell you from experience that the purpose of a hospital is to sustain the largest possible number of administrative staff - if, as a consequence, you have to cut down on nurses to the extent that patients are not fed, watered or given bed-pans when needed you arrive at the situation I see daily - the ex-chief engineer of Texaco's biggest oil tanker being treated like a half-witted child as he waits to die in a room full of strangers.
Never mind, these new Trident nuclear submarines will put everything right again. Obviously.

We surely need to wake up to the reality that the needs of government are inimical to the needs of the individual, and that capitalism has no place in medicine.
In our current system the "ideal patient" is one who needs expensive life-long medication.
I see this as an inevitable result of basing healthcare on the profit motive, it also means that as an inevitable consequence, we educate our children in the art and science of making money.
Were our healthcare based on humanitarianism, we'd have to teach the kids something else.


Sunbeem.

[redcat]

With health care costs increasing very rapidly compounded by an ageing population something will have to give in the United States. We have wait time issues in the U.S. as well REdmonton.

[tooseevee]

Never mind, these new Trident nuclear submarines will put everything right again. Obviously.
Sunbeem.

           Don't assume that I mean ANYthing other than what I say, but Trident nuclear submarines are in no way new.

[Sunbeem]

Hi tooseevee, I was referring, (rather vaguely) to the £700 million pounds recently bunged into the Trident programme, to develop a new Vanguard sub at Barrow in Furness, to fire said missile. I have heard that this is just the design cost ... so you are spot on, Trident isn't, in itself, new -- it just needs a new submarine so we can go on putting the fear of God into Johnny Foreigner.
Personally I'd rather have a better health service than death squad. That was the point I was hoping to convey.

Sunbeem.

[Desi Bike]

Every nation fears the Canadian navy when they row up in their canoe, and ask the invaders to please leave lest they draw the three sling shots and pummel them with marbles.

[Ice]

Health care in the US used to be far different than it is now.
Our host posted some replys to a couple threads about it.
Search them....very eye opening.

[REpozer]

so you are spot on, Trident isn't, in itself, new -- it just needs a new submarine so we can go on putting the fear of God into Johnny Foreigner.
Personally I'd rather have a better health service than death squad. That was the point I was hoping to convey.

Sunbeem.

1) That sub protects the western societies. (UK is one of them). So your government can spend more of its tax base on socialized medicine.
2) History has shown that as morality falls in government , health care is rationed to those deemed " fittest" or " most productive". Hope your not a commoner over age 40 when this comes into full bloom.

[ace.cafe]

The roads of all economic ills always lead back to meddling gov't intervention.
In 1960, anybody could afford health care, practically nobody had health insurance because nobody needed any, and doctors came to the house and cured you for a $5 bill. That was when the "free market" was more-or-less still functioning in the healthcare market.
Then, the gov't stepped in. And their very first step of intervention was done with the long range goal of completely taking over the entire healthcare industry under the total control of gov't. And so it had to be purposely pushed into an untenable situation for the consumer, and it was.
Fast forward 60 years, and it's a complete disaster. And guess what the predictable "answer" that the gov't put forth was? You guessed it.
Thank you, Uncle Sam.

Anyone who thinks this all occurred by "coincidence" isn't paying attention. And  that's what they are "banking" on.

[1 Thump]

The roads of all economic ills always lead back to meddling gov't intervention.
In 1960, anybody could afford health care, practically nobody had health insurance because nobody needed any, and doctors came to the house and cured you for a $5 bill. That was when the "free market" was more-or-less still functioning in the healthcare market.
Then, the gov't stepped in. And their very first step of intervention was done with the long range goal of completely taking over the entire healthcare industry under the total control of gov't. And so it had to be purposely pushed into an untenable situation for the consumer, and it was.
Fast forward 60 years, and it's a complete disaster. And guess what the predictable "answer" that the gov't put forth was? You guessed it.
Thank you, Uncle Sam.

Anyone who thinks this all occurred by "coincidence" isn't paying attention. And  that's what they are "banking" on.

I am not that skeptical. There are two main reasons for the way things are.

1. Americans are for some reason have inherently unhealthy habits. We dont eat right, we dont exercise and we do too much of the recreational stuff. There is data to prove that. You only get govt healthcare if you are over 65 (medicare) or if you are disabled (medicaid). Off course ER care is free if you do not have the means, and a lot of people use the ER like it was an OP clinic...because they do not have the means. Thats where the real cost comes in, ER care. Preventative care should be free to everyone. It will save billions.

2. Greed. Read the article from the Time magazine I posted. You will get an idea. Its a poorly regulated market with monopolies, loopholes etc.

I happen to have lived and worked in healthcare in a country (India) where medicine is practiced in the model you believe in, free market. Nothing wrong with it in principle. But, trust me when I tell you, if you aint got money you will not get the Aspirin in the ER, yes thats right not even aspirin...you will die of bleeding in an auto accident....there is no ambulance services...no 911...nothing. I have known many people, good people, who have died on the roadside in a car accident because of this free market experience. And these people had the resources to pay for the ER bill and rehab and more.

Our system (healthcare and political) is broken. Socialized medicine in Canada and parts of western Europe  produces better results that our model. People live longer and happier. Again, there is data to prove that. Just google longevity in these countries. Nothing is perfect, but Canada does it better than we do. Their results speak for themselves. Ask a Canadian. A Canadian physician once told me that the average Canadian values their healthcare more than Wayne Gretzky.....That says a lot.

[ace.cafe]

That's an interesting point.

Which is more affordable?
Is it something that i contract for directly with my doctor, and no middle man involved, so that I pay only the cost for my care, and I can make my own deal for how much I can pay?
Or is it something that is arranged by a middle man(Gov't), who charges me the MAXIMUM cost which he can extract from me at the point of a gov't gun(enforced taxes) carves MUCH of the money out for his own greed and perks and gives me nothing in return(or worse, he gives me a lot of unwanted bureaucratic red tape and regulations, and denials of services), and then creates a law to force the doctors to accept their low-budget payments for the lowest possible cost to the bureaucracy, without any regard for my concerns for my desires for care, and tells me that that is what I have to have, under penalty of law, and I am fined or incarcerated if I don't comply or try to get my own care elsewhere?

And yes, we know that the prices charged to us will be maximized, because there are huge numbers of people in bureaucratic agencies required to oversee and enforce the penalties against anyone who might not comply with the ivory tower edicts, which is strictly verboten, you know. It costs plenty of money to pay all these people to enforce this money-extraction scheme against the people. It ain't cheap!
So, therefore, we must pay for not only our minimized health care allotment that they decide that they'll allow for us(if we're not too old), but we have to pay for all these millions of people's salaries and perks and benefits and retirement programs, and their health care plans, and their gov't cars and vacations, along with paying for our health care too. Isn't that wonderful?

What a deal!
I think I'm getting a headache.