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Author Topic: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?  (Read 1759 times)

mrrstr

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90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« on: March 15, 2013, 02:06:55 AM »
What happens if you put 90w in the transmission but haven't replaced the mainshaft bearing with the sealed set?  Replacing the bearing with a sealed unit is something I'd like to do, but I'm hoping to ride for the season before tearing into the transmission, but I don't want to ride it if the oil is going to leak everywhere...  What's the word?

Ice

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 02:56:36 AM »
Dry sweep.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

young gun

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 07:41:56 AM »
Dry sweep?

AgentX

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 08:15:01 AM »
Dry sweep

is what you use to soak up spilled oil.

ace.cafe

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 11:44:28 AM »
If you are just topping it off with gear oil, it will probably be okay when it gets mixed with the 00 grease that's inside.
If you have already removed all the grease out of it, then it probably will leak with just the gear oil inside.
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noisymilk

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 05:23:28 PM »
Just do the sealed bearing upgrade. It's actually quite easy. Took me about 3 hours, including cleaning up the nasty grease all over everything. But I'm running gear oil only in there right now, and nary a leak since reinstallation. I check the levels every now and again, just to make sure it's not leaking out the main shaft on the primary side by the chain (just about the only place it could get out that I can't see easily). Never had to do more than the most minimal top off.

Be safe.
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mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 06:38:43 PM »
I was just hoping to get a season out of it, hoping the leak would be really, really slow and I could just top it off.  You know, a drop or two.  Sounds like I need to order the kit.  And I just did an order, so now I can't get the free shipping!  Dang it!  Any other mods that are urgent, while I'm putting in this order?

noisymilk

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 07:15:28 PM »
Well, if it runs and goes forward, then no mods are ACTUALLY necessary. :)

That said, if you have left side shift, the upgrade kit with careful installation does give a more positive shift action to the Goldberg shift mechanism on these old bikes. I did one, and it has been a very good improvement.

I can't tell you how slow or fast the gear box would leak if you continued to just top off in the grease they use stock in there. You might be able to go all season. But, for me, having owned a Norton prior to my enfield, I was interested in trying to reduce oil puddles. :) I have successfully done so, via several upgrades. Including the one we are talking about.

Good luck, and ride more.
-Milk

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AgentX

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 03:08:15 AM »
What happens if you put 90w in the transmission but haven't replaced the mainshaft bearing with the sealed set?  Replacing the bearing with a sealed unit is something I'd like to do, but I'm hoping to ride for the season before tearing into the transmission, but I don't want to ride it if the oil is going to leak everywhere...  What's the word?

Like Ace said, if you're just adding some oil to the box you'll be fine.  If you're cleaning the box of grease and re-filling with oil, you'll leak. 

Given you said you don't want to tear into the transmission, I'm guessing you want the former and not the latter.

curtisbelford

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 05:46:22 AM »
I think the word of the day was DRY SWEEP!!!!    ;D   8)    Good Luck Man

geichal

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 12:59:39 PM »
Ya, what he said dry sweep!  I topped off with 90w and 90w came right back out!!  I use 000 grease and no problems!
Geichal

solg

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 01:54:24 PM »
So,what year did they start using sealed bearings?

AgentX

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2013, 02:07:55 PM »
On the 4-spd?  Never.  Adding them is a home remedy.

5spds are built to run in oil.

solg

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 02:34:51 PM »
Ah, that explains why mine don't leak. I have a 2008 5 speed!

young gun

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 03:58:00 PM »
On the 4-spd?  Never.  Adding them is a home remedy.

5spds are built to run in oil.

Well that's good news for me! So did the 5-speeds tool out with grease or 90w?

mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2013, 05:38:02 PM »
Is there a quick way to tell if the P.O. did the bearing already? I'd feel pretty dumb if I got the kit and it turned out it was done. 
I ask because the stuff in the box came out as a thick liquid, not as a grease...

solg

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 07:53:53 PM »
Well that's good news for me! So did the 5-speeds tool out with grease or 90w?

I have 90wt in mine

single

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2013, 08:41:49 PM »
I have been running 90wt in Jolly,1999 model,with no leaks,for 3 yrs.I did put a "breather" in the filler plug.Just sayin'.Don't mean nuthin'.

Blltrdr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2013, 09:41:44 PM »
Is there a quick way to tell if the P.O. did the bearing already? I'd feel pretty dumb if I got the kit and it turned out it was done. 
I ask because the stuff in the box came out as a thick liquid, not as a grease...

Remove outer cover and remove bearing cap on inner cover. You will see a seal on the bearing instead of the exposed balls in the cage.
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
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mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2013, 12:24:52 AM »
Thanks.  Turns out, it's not sealed.  This bike is nice to work on, though  :)

Blltrdr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 05:37:38 AM »
Installing the small sealed main shaft bearing takes about 1-2 hrs. Hitchcock's sells a kit that has you replace the big main shaft bearing also, but I didn't notice any oil leakage with just the replacement of the small bearing in the inner cover. If you replace the bearing you should also drill a vent in the filler as recommended by Pete Snidal. If you have a left shift you should convert to a right shift while doing the bearing mod. These mods will have a great effect on shifting performance of your gearbox, restoring it to it's original design and giving it a much needed update for use of a readily available gearbox lubricant.
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mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 10:23:36 AM »
What page in Pete's book goes over this stuff?  He says "see chapter 9" but then I couldn't find anything specific in chapter 9.  A page number/heading name would be a big help.

Blltrdr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2013, 02:21:33 PM »
What page in Pete's book goes over this stuff?  He says "see chapter 9" but then I couldn't find anything specific in chapter 9.  A page number/heading name would be a big help.

Chapter 9, Page 124. The gearbox (installing the right shift conversion kit).
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 02:25:18 PM by Blltrdr »
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
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mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2013, 05:56:10 PM »
Thank you, that was extremely helpful.  I probably am going to go for the RHS shifter too.  This is turning into one of those bottomless projects very quickly...

mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2013, 12:27:01 PM »
So the manual says use a 6303 ZZ.  I found this:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#6303-ball-bearings/=ly17ww
for a little more than $11.  But, there's an extra bearing, some seals and o-rings in the kit.  But, the kit is $75.  Do I need both bearings? The seals? The o-rings?  Or can I just buy the 6303 from McMaster and call it a day?
I'm not trying to cheep out on a good supplier, but it is a heck of a markup for some bearings and o-rings, and I already need to buy that RHS shift kit, which is setting me back about what I'm comfortable with as it is.

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2013, 06:42:11 PM »
If I can jump in this tread and answer your question, it depends upon where your leak is coming from.  If the leak is from the un-sealed 6303, then all you need is a 6303 ZZ which includes the seals for that bearing.  However, if your leak is from around the kick starter shaft, you will need the O-ring that fits around the kick start shaft, .......and if your leak is coming from the final drive shaft between the spocket and the gearbox, you need to know if the final drive shaft bearing has the seals in place.  If not, you would need those seals, as well as a small O-ring  on the sprocket side of the final drive shaft.

If I were to do this again, I would also add an oil thrower ring (thin washer) on the inside of the final drive shaft.  I don't believe they install these thrower rings on the modern gearbox but I have seen some old diagrams from the 1950's (before oil seals were common) that show an oil thrower on both ends of the main shaft.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2013, 10:16:08 PM »
IMHO I like to use the 00 grease that is receomended. I use the synthetic stuff so that it does not harden inside like the factory grease does http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/maintenance-repair/4-speed-gear-box-grease.html  Now...... many people swear that the 90 weight works better, shifts smoother, give you better fuel economy, keeps your tyres inflated better, cuts down wind resistance etc.
I don't really know, kind of a Ford Chevy thing. The grease works great in my 4 speed and did not have to tear down the tranny, but extra parts etc. However if you are set on it......
http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/maintenance-repair/transmission/sealed-baring-kit.html

High On Octane

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2013, 10:27:14 PM »
Is this bearing the same reason my 700cc twin leaks from the primary side?  If so do I need to repack this bearing with grease?
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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2013, 03:22:58 PM »
the basic issue is that the output bearing has a felt seal and they do not work well against oil - at least that is the case with the Indian built RE. My guess is that the Albion gearbox was always built that way.

mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2013, 05:44:43 PM »
So, nfieldgear doesn't have any RHS shift conversions in stock.  So for now, how do I refill my transmission?  Do I just squirt some grease in and add 90w to it?   :-\

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2013, 08:36:34 PM »
I will check with "Partsman" Tim and see what the deal is. Sometimes we are just missing something as simple as an O-ring and the kit goes on back-order....or not

baird4444

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2013, 10:29:43 AM »
I used a concoction of 1 tube of the green Lucas grease and 1 Qt. 30wt. oil.
heated both in a coffee can on gas grill to mix then poured into old
gear oil bottle with spout. Mix turned solid when cool. To use I'd set bottle
in the sun fer a couple of hours to heat up and be thin enuff to pour thru
spout. Thin enuff to do the job in the box but thick enuff to NOT leak...

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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2013, 05:20:20 PM »
The correct consistency is that of thick "snot"

mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2013, 05:36:19 PM »
And how do you know when there's enough in there?

ace.cafe

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2013, 05:52:30 PM »
And how do you know when there's enough in there?

There's a level checking plug at the front edge of the gearbox cover. You fill it until it starts to drip out of that plug hole. Then put the plug back in, and it's good.
It should be described in the owner's manual and service manuals that you have. If you don't have them, you should get them.
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mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2013, 10:36:21 PM »
You can never have too much, only not enough, when there is no oil spot on the ground under the bike, you know it is time to put more in.  But seriously, when it comes out the opening on the front of the gearbox, you are full.

mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2013, 12:54:58 AM »
I just wasn't sure how much of a liquid this was going to be....

The idea is the grease is viscous enough to not come out of the bearing, so I wasn't sure if it was viscous enough to not really pour evenly, and so maybe it would be easy to overfill or under-fill, depending on how the grease fills the box, and when it starts to leave the hole.  I take it if I heat it up, it won't be an issue?

Sorry, my only experience with grease is from a grease gun, and that doesn't pour at all...

ace.cafe

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2013, 01:16:07 AM »
I just wasn't sure how much of a liquid this was going to be....

The idea is the grease is viscous enough to not come out of the bearing, so I wasn't sure if it was viscous enough to not really pour evenly, and so maybe it would be easy to overfill or under-fill, depending on how the grease fills the box, and when it starts to leave the hole.  I take it if I heat it up, it won't be an issue?

Sorry, my only experience with grease is from a grease gun, and that doesn't pour at all...

The original intent was to have a certain amount of the factory grease inside the gearbox, and then any top-offs thereafter would be with 50wt motor oil. The stuff gets mixed around in the gearbox by the gear motion, after it gets heated up. Just fill it up to the level plug, and the gearbox will do the rest of the job.
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geichal

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2013, 10:22:03 PM »
I use 30cc syringes to inject grease into the gearbox, works great!
Geichal

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2013, 12:23:56 AM »
I use 30cc syringes to inject grease into the gearbox, works great!
Geichal

Do you warm it in a spoon first?

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2013, 03:18:42 AM »
Do you warm it in a spoon first?

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2013, 03:36:42 AM »
Big spoon and a torch😉
Geichal

mrrstr

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2013, 12:36:40 PM »
The 90w did drain a little into the outside transmission cover (though not on the floor), and I'm going to try to get a grease/oil mix in there.  I liked the post about heating up 30w with grease and pouring it in the transmission; I might try that.

Unfortunately (?), I don't have any used needles kicking around. ???

bullethead63

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Re: 90w transmission without sealed bearing?
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2013, 03:39:44 AM »
I put 90WT gear oil in my RH shift 2000,because the previous owner said he had installed sealed bearings...and soaked it all up with kitty litter when it was on the floor the next day...damn...stinky stuff...so...I pushed a whole tube of grease into a plastic bucket,mixed in about 1/3 90WT gear oil,packed it back into the tube,and injected it into the ALBION gearbox,and have been topping it off with 90WT...it still leaks on hot days,or after long rides...get the sealed bearings...better yet,do the RH shift conversion,AND sealed bearings...you're an Enfield owner,not a Honda Jockey...you can do this...
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