HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

My new Enfield | Forest


in
Members Rides

48 Guests, 1 User
Bullet Whisperer
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 22, 2014, 07:27:31 AM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: Oil Cooler  (Read 1316 times)

mustangdave

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
  • Karma: 0
  • ACES UP
Oil Cooler
« on: March 26, 2013, 02:08:47 AM »
Whats the skinny on OIL COOLERS?  Ace I saw on the FIREBALL Yahoo Group that you use to fabricate one. I'm thinking that an oil cooler might be a good way to help the engine run cooler.
I rode Japanese bikes as a kid...then I grew up and got some British Thunder

noisymilk

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: 0
  • Run what ya brung....
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 04:32:03 AM »
I have one I used to have on my Enfield. I replaced it with the external oil filter that Ace/Chumma sell. I got the cooler from Chumma a while ago.

It's yours if you want it. It does help cool, I think.
-Milk

2003 Royal Enfield Military
2009 Genuine Blackjack - MrsMilk's ride

I'm trying to make my Enfield an adventure machine:
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,12951.0.html

Ever want to ride a scooter to Canada??
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690259

AgentX

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • Karma: 0
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 07:28:40 AM »
Interestingly, although the Snidal manual recommends it and Ace sold a cooler, in a discussion on his group, Tom (Ace) stated that the temp of the oil does little to cool the rest of the engine.

So my question is...is cooling the oil going to end up with it running at a lower temp than its optimal running spec?

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 7948
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 11:27:45 AM »
Two things.
First, I have lost my source of radiators, so I can't make that one like I used to make.
Second, in many applications of the Bullet, the oil cooler is not necessary.
There could be some circumstances that it would be useful, like in very hot climates, racing, etc.
But for many street applications, we have found it to be not as necessary as we originally thought it would be.

I have access to one of my antique style radiators which is owned by a Fireball owner, which he didn't install, and he's looking to sell it.
If interested, just send me a message.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Ice

  • Hypercafienated
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5082
  • Karma: 0
  • Ride In Paradise Cabo, Don and Ernie
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 04:41:48 PM »
+1 to what Ace said.

Also there are some other sides to oil coolers to consider.

Besides the usual cool the oil to cool the motor perspective there is cool the oil to preserve its life and cool the oil to reduce parts wear perspectives to consider.

Also over cooling oil is just as bad as over heating it.
Moisture and acids that form do not get a chance to dissipate when the oil is over cooled.

A good rule of thumb is if you run an oil cooler you should also run a oil cooler thermostat to regulate the temperature.

Hot climates and severe duty applications I.E. racing and high load/ low speed applications are where the benefits are greatest.

I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5024
  • Karma: 0
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 05:13:50 PM »
+1  In normal operating conditions an oil cooler would be detrimental to getting the oil up to an optimal temp.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

mustangdave

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
  • Karma: 0
  • ACES UP
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 09:15:22 PM »
Thank guys...good info to have...
I rode Japanese bikes as a kid...then I grew up and got some British Thunder

Arizoni

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
  • Karma: 0
  • "But it's a dry heat here in Arizona
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 09:23:15 PM »
I think the only place to tap into the pressurized oil system for a external oil cooler is the external pipe that runs up to the cylinder head.

Unless I'm wrong, using a thermostat in the external oil cooler could lead to a catastrophic failure of the rocker arms, the valve guides and the cam followers.

If the thermostat decides the oil is too cool and it doesn't need the cooler it will prevent the oil from circulating up to these parts.
The only way it could work without causing this problem is if the thermostat allows a free flow past the cooler when the oil is cool and it diverts the oil thru the radiator core when the oil is hot.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 7948
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 09:39:00 PM »
I think the only place to tap into the pressurized oil system for a external oil cooler is the external pipe that runs up to the cylinder head.

Unless I'm wrong, using a thermostat in the external oil cooler could lead to a catastrophic failure of the rocker arms, the valve guides and the cam followers.

If the thermostat decides the oil is too cool and it doesn't need the cooler it will prevent the oil from circulating up to these parts.
The only way it could work without causing this problem is if the thermostat allows a free flow past the cooler when the oil is cool and it diverts the oil thru the radiator core when the oil is hot.

That would be a by-pass system.
While some of the oil cooling systems would have such a thing, in days gone by, the vintage bikes just had a cooler plumbed into the oil line. If it got cold out, the rider put a little cover over the oil cooler to help prevent over-cooling.
Low-tech, but it worked okay.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Ice

  • Hypercafienated
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5082
  • Karma: 0
  • Ride In Paradise Cabo, Don and Ernie
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 02:22:46 AM »
I think the only place to tap into the pressurized oil system for a external oil cooler is the external pipe that runs up to the cylinder head.

Unless I'm wrong, using a thermostat in the external oil cooler could lead to a catastrophic failure of the rocker arms, the valve guides and the cam followers.

If the thermostat decides the oil is too cool and it doesn't need the cooler it will prevent the oil from circulating up to these parts.
The only way it could work without causing this problem is if the thermostat allows a free flow past the cooler when the oil is cool and it diverts the oil thru the radiator core when the oil is hot.

 That is how they work.

Good too that you bring up the scavenge side of the system.

It is the easiest and most logical place to add coolers and spin on filters.



We never consider the feed side of the system.
 Tapping into it wood would allow 100% of the oil to be filtered or cooled but would take some modification to the timing chest cover and filter housing.

 Since it is the feed pump that lubes the crank, using anything less than aircraft grade plumbing for such a mod just would not give the warm and fuzzys.

*edits in italics*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 04:51:57 AM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

young gun

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 0
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 04:57:47 AM »
Does anyone have a pic if the installed unit? I would be interested to see how it looks :)

AgentX

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • Karma: 0
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 07:33:50 AM »
Tom, since you're here and we're on the topic...do you think the spin-on filter mod is a good idea or does the traditional filter work well enough? 

I got my filter and mounted it in the airstream to try and get a bit of a radiator effect on my 350, but I'm wondering if it's worth it to try and plumb it back into the Fireball when I get it all built.

If I do add it to the Fireball, I'm going to mount it closer to the engine and more out of the general air stream.

1 Thump

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • Karma: 0
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 05:08:33 PM »
2008 RE Classic- Fireball-For Sale

2009 Aprilia Mana

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 7948
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 05:31:12 PM »
Tom, since you're here and we're on the topic...do you think the spin-on filter mod is a good idea or does the traditional filter work well enough? 

I got my filter and mounted it in the airstream to try and get a bit of a radiator effect on my 350, but I'm wondering if it's worth it to try and plumb it back into the Fireball when I get it all built.

If I do add it to the Fireball, I'm going to mount it closer to the engine and more out of the general air stream.

The spin-on filter is a definite improvement.
The OEM filter element is hardly better than bandage gauze. We leave the OEM filter element in place to provide some protection that it gives as a screen before the crank bearing, and change it frequently.
But the spin-on filter becomes the main filter for the engine when it's installed in the oil return line to the head.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Chuck D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 873
  • Karma: 0
Re: Oil Cooler
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2013, 05:43:51 PM »
The extra volume of oil doesn't hurt either.
Mine is mounted to the engine mounting plate.
Chuck.
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
Ace "GP" head in the works.

'76 Honda CB550Four K(sold)


"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understandin'?"