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Author Topic: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams  (Read 2453 times)

Bill Harris

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Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« on: March 27, 2013, 07:56:38 PM »
Installed 'S' cams into the Harris Scrambler.  The head is stock and as with many stock AVL heads the valve seats are not flush with the combustion chamber.  I had intake valve to piston interference because of the seat not being flush.  To remedy this without machining the seat flush, I timed the exhaust cam to the timing marks and the intake cam one gear tooth retarded.  The bike runs very good.  I'm getting more RPMs out of the engine, don't know just how many, I don't have a tachometer, but I can make 75 mph in forth gear and 80 mph in fifth with the cycle as you see it.  Not only am I able to get more RPMs and a little more top speed, I also have very good low speed throttle response.  The only performance modifications to the engine are:  'S' cams, 30mm PWK flat-slide carburetor with K&N pancake air filter, and a free flowing, upswept exhaust with the Indian made classic short silencer.  The bike is also running stock gearing with a 18" rear wheel.  I'm very pleased.             
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 10:42:32 AM by Bill Harris »

Ice

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 08:23:06 PM »
Oh great...........
Keeping up with him was tough enough before......now I need some ACME rockets.

I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

boggy

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2013, 08:27:38 PM »
Wow Bill, that is some noticeable power... really good to hear.  Sounds like 70-75 mph in 5th will be a bit more relaxed.  You went back to the stock TCi, correct?

The Harris Scrambler looks good as always.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 10:44:32 AM by boggy »
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Bullet Whisperer

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2013, 04:58:46 AM »
Thanks for sharing that, Bill. I am glad it worked out ok. So far as I know, all the other 'S' cam modified AVL machines ran ok 'on the dots', but retarding the inlet cam one tooth to avoid the piston isn't as drastic as the numbers [degrees] would have you believe. It will also take you further away from any likelihood of pinking [pinging] and aid top end performance a little, too.
 Good news indeed and I hope you continue to enjoy your machine !
 B.W.

ace.cafe

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2013, 06:49:18 AM »
Congratulations on another nice mod to your Harris Scrambler, Bill.
I'm glad you like it.
Bullet Whisperer has done all the leading research for this stuff, and he's really at the top of it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 06:51:46 AM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

Please visit my new website:
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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 07:50:38 AM »
Bill,

when you get those valve seats sorted, putting the timing back according to the stock timing marks will make you see exactly why you wanted those cams.  ;D   Lots more fun still to be had!

Regards,

A.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 10:01:44 AM »
Bill, glad to hear about your experience with the "S" cams. I just received my cams from BW as well. How did you go about checking for clearance? I have yet to turn my engine over as I'm waiting for my new pushrod adjusters to come in since I accidentally broke one during the install. Also, did you have to do any machining of your case or cover? I found that my cover would not fit with the "S" cams and I had to use a dremel with a grinding stone on the timing cover to get it to fit flush again. I probably removed around 3-4mm.

Bill Harris

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 03:49:52 PM »
Bill, glad to hear about your experience with the "S" cams. I just received my cams from BW as well. How did you go about checking for clearance? I have yet to turn my engine over as I'm waiting for my new pushrod adjusters to come in since I accidentally broke one during the install. Also, did you have to do any machining of your case or cover? I found that my cover would not fit with the "S" cams and I had to use a dremel with a grinding stone on the timing cover to get it to fit flush again. I probably removed around 3-4mm.


Enfield Jack,

To check for valve to piston interference, take out the spark plug, put the transmission into neutral and turnover the engine very slowly by hand with the kickstarter.  If the engine sticks or just makes a metallic tapping sound from the head, you may have interference.  If this did not take place.  turnover the engine very fast by hand with the kickstarter.  If the engine just makes a metallic tapping sound from the head, you very well may have interference.  If the engine sticks, back off the pushrod adjusters, one at a time until you can turn the engine over freely.  Start with the intake adjuster first.  The intake valve is most likely the one with interference.  If either valve has interference with the piston, you can have the valve seats machined flush with the combustion chamber.  If you are not ready to do a valve job at this time you can probably get by with just retarding the intake valve and or advancing the exhaust one cam gear tooth.  To retard the intake valve, turn that cam one tooth counterclockwise from the mark.  To advance the exhaust valve, turn that cam one tooth counterclockwise from the two timing marks.  Recheck for valve to piston interference.  If no interference, you should be good to go.  As for the timing chest cover not fitting after installing the 'S' cams is a mystery to me.  My 'S' cams were .003 of an inch shorter than the stock cams from the outside to the inside at the spindle hole and the cam lobes had good clearance.  I just installed the 'S' cams using the same shims in the same place, one shim on the gear side of each cam, as was on my stock cams.  Everything fit and is working just fine.  With that said, every Royal Enfield is a little different.  I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Bill                   
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 09:10:47 PM by Bill Harris »

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 11:02:40 PM »
thanks for sharing Bill and BW.  This is great stuff.  I kick myself for not finding a way to get those cams when they were available.

Bill, do you use any decomp at all? If so, what did you end up doing (Adrian's mod comes to mind)
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Bill Harris

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2013, 12:50:11 AM »
thanks for sharing Bill and BW.  This is great stuff.  I kick myself for not finding a way to get those cams when they were available.

Bill, do you use any decomp at all? If so, what did you end up doing (Adrian's mod comes to mind)

DanB,

I got rid of the decompression stuff a long time ago.  I just didn't use it, so why have it.  We are only talking 8.5:1 compression ratio and it's not hard to get over TDC with the  kickstarter and kick start the engine.  I almost always kick start.

Cheers,
Bill       

Bill Harris

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 01:14:01 AM »
Wow Bill, that is some noticeable power... really good to hear.  Sounds like 70-75 mph in 5th will be a bit more relaxed.  You went back to the stock ECU, correct?

The Harris Scrambler looks good as always.

Boggy,

I installed the performance TCI unit a while back.  The Harris Scrambler didn't like it.  It would kickback when starting and I feared for the sprag.  I reinstalled the stock green TCI and that's what I'm running in it now.

Cheers,
Bill   
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 12:29:40 PM by Bill Harris »

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 08:40:33 AM »
That TCI [CDI] might have been faulty, Bill. The performance CDI boxes as on the machine I tuned should give 4 degrees more retard at starting and low RPM's and 4 degrees more advance at high RPM's, for a bit more top end go. Certainly, any tendancies to kickback on this testbed machine were eliminated by the new CDI box.
 Back to the 'S' cams, there are a number of plain 'Iron' and some 'Asbo' iron engine Bullets now using these cams and showing improvements as a result, as well as the AVL types they were mainly intended for.
 B.W.
 P.S. - very important - if any interference is noted between the exhaust valve and piston, the timing for this valve should be ADVANCED [move cam anticlockwise] to close it sooner and make more room over the piston going over TDC on the 'overlap'. Please, do not retard this valve's timing by mistake, or damage will probably result as a consequence.
 Retarding the inlet timing by turning this cam anticlockwise opens this valve later and will increase the space between piston and valve going over TDC on the 'overlap'.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 01:25:38 PM by Bullet Whisperer »

Bill Harris

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2013, 09:46:57 PM »
 
That TCI [CDI] might have been faulty, Bill. The performance CDI boxes as on the machine I tuned should give 4 degrees more retard at starting and low RPM's and 4 degrees more advance at high RPM's, for a bit more top end go. Certainly, any tendancies to kickback on this testbed machine were eliminated by the new CDI box.
 Back to the 'S' cams, there are a number of plain 'Iron' and some 'Asbo' iron engine Bullets now using these cams and showing improvements as a result, as well as the AVL types they were mainly intended for.
 B.W.
 P.S. - very important - if any interference is noted between the exhaust valve and piston, the timing for this valve should be ADVANCED [move cam anticlockwise] to close it sooner and make more room over the piston going over TDC on the 'overlap'. Please, do not retard this valve's timing by mistake, or damage will probably result as a consequence.
 Retarding the inlet timing by turning this cam anticlockwise opens this valve later and will increase the space between piston and valve going over TDC on the 'overlap'.

Thanks B.W.

That's right, advance the exhaust valve.  I revised my post to Enfield Jack.  Thanks for the correction.  You know about us old people, we don't know if we're coming or going.   :-[

Cheers,
Bill   
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 11:57:08 PM by Bill Harris »

Adrian

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2013, 04:13:32 AM »
My senior moments seem to be running into each other, the gaps in between are getting shorter, what forum was this?

Adrian (just let me check...)

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »
I got a chance to install the cams this past weekend. No valve/ piston clearance issues but the cams did require a richer fuel mixture. Now waiting on larger jets to arrive. I have a 2006 Electra with the CMW Performance Kit. Free flowing downpipe with baffled shorty silencer (drilled 6, 3/8" holes into front and rear baffles), 30mm PWK with #35 pilot, 130# main jet and K&N Pancake Air Filter. I can't wait to try it on the road with proper jetting. To be continued...
Jake

boggy

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 06:50:41 PM »
Interesting how different these machines can run.  Jake, I have the 30mm PWK, same filter, and a baffled megaphone. I'm running a low 120's (can't recall exactly... 122? 123?) main and I'm STILL running a bit rich.  Needle in the highest notch.  Stock cams.  2007 AVL.  Although some black stuff is telling me I have a slight exhaust leak too where the engine/header meet so maybe that's that.

These cams sound like a worthwhile upgrade for sure.  Good luck with your tuning.
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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 02:27:03 AM »
Just in case it has been forgotten, on the machine I tuned originally there was a steel ring [like a big, thick washer] in the exhaust port, between the head and exhaust pipe and the hole through it was very restrictive. I opened it out by approx. 4 mm diameter, if I remember right.
 B.W.

boggy

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 09:03:58 AM »
Hey BW - Just so I'm clear (and if there is a thread explaining it just point me to it) You put the washer in there and even with drilling it out wider, you still have a much smaller exhaust port to header than stock?
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Bullet Whisperer

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 01:29:14 PM »
Hey BW - Just so I'm clear (and if there is a thread explaining it just point me to it) You put the washer in there and even with drilling it out wider, you still have a much smaller exhaust port to header than stock?
Hi Boggy,
 I only ever saw the one AVL engined bike in this respect and some minor work had been done already, before it came my way, but when I pulled the 'Freeflow' pipe [header pipe] off to get a look into the exhaust port, I noticed this steel ring, like a large washer stuck in between the head and the pipe end and the hole through it was way too small, so I enlarged it. I assumed [rightly or wrongly] that this was a part found on all these machines, if it is the case, it can easily be opened up for better breathing as it would be very restrictive if left alone. I was asked to leave the ports alone because it had to be a 'bolt on' kit that I was helping to develop, so they were left untouched.
 B.W.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 01:31:40 PM by Bullet Whisperer »

boggy

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 07:26:17 PM »
OK, interesting.  Thanks.  Was curious if I was missing something on mine since it's wide open.
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Adrian

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 06:17:36 PM »
The restrictive steel insert for the (otherwise) unrestricted Electra-X/AVL Classic pipe is an odd feature of the exhaust pipes supplied by Hitchcock's, which I am guessing is what our hosts sell.

This insert is not needed at all, just bin it or save it in the odds & ends box, and use a good smear of silicone RTV around the exhaust pipe flange, especially if you have opened out the exhaust port on the head.

Bill Harris

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2013, 05:40:33 PM »
I'm using the Royal Enfield Classic Exhaust System with the upswept adapter as supplied by nfieldgear.  On the end of the header pipe, the end that goes into the head, there's a steel washer welded over that open end.  This washer is there to provide a mating surface on the header for the exhaust gasket that's in the port.  The inside diameter of this washer is less than the diameter of the exhaust port and is restrictive.  I just opened up the inside diameter of this mating washer to the same size as the exhaust port.  There is enough of this washer left, after opening it up, to mate with the exhaust gasket and create a good exhaust seal.  That's what I did and it works okay for me.

Cheers,
Bill           

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2013, 03:53:42 AM »
Thanks for sharing that, Bill. I am glad it worked out ok. So far as I know, all the other 'S' cam modified AVL machines ran ok 'on the dots', but retarding the inlet cam one tooth to avoid the piston isn't as drastic as the numbers [degrees] would have you believe. It will also take you further away from any likelihood of pinking [pinging] and aid top end performance a little, too.
 Good news indeed and I hope you continue to enjoy your machine !
 B.W.

Hi All,
I am new here though I have been reading up and following the post related to AVL 500 performance. I have a 2008 AVL 500 and live in Bangalore, India. I have till now just researched and have been reading up the wealth of knowledge and experience available on the forum, thanks to the number of experienced bullet lovers here.  I have been running my bike for a few years with :
1. A free flow exhaust ( w/out the small cat con pipe in the header)
2. A K&N RR1100 Air Filter (open to Air)
3. Blocked off re-circulation Valve on the exhaust port side of the head
4. A UCAL 33mm CV carb with a 140 main jet
5. A very thin (Calender paper) gasket at the Cylinder-Crankcase and at the Head-Cylinder faces
6. 18 tooth gearbox sprocket

The bike runs great and maxes out at 83MPH. It a fun bike however, ever since reading about the famous BW 'S' cams - I am looking source a pair for the bike. However, in India there are hardly any sources available for performance parts for the AVL. And the 'S' cams  are made to order part.

Since, there is mention of a few members receiving 'S' cams, I was wondering if you have had a batch made and may have a few available. (crossed fingers).

Tej



dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2013, 04:14:51 AM »
I think that makes 3 of us who still need a set of "S" cams! Send a pm to Paul, I am sure that he's got things planned for these cams :)

Tej - In order to get better top end and more crisp, you will have to dump the CV carb ;)


-Sanket

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2013, 07:36:41 AM »
I think that makes 3 of us who still need a set of "S" cams! Send a pm to Paul, I am sure that he's got things planned for these cams :)

-Sanket

Thanks for the interest ! I am sure I could get more made, but there is a minimum order of 6 sets required by the makers for the price to be anywhere like reasonable. Feel free to message me, any interested parties and we can take it from there ...
 B.W.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2013, 10:59:07 PM »
Count me in as well.  PM sent.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2013, 02:00:20 PM »
My exhaust opening has a brick red color to the buildup...very little buildup.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2013, 01:50:44 AM »
I think that makes 3 of us who still need a set of "S" cams! Send a pm to Paul, I am sure that he's got things planned for these cams :)

Tej - In order to get better top end and more crisp, you will have to dump the CV carb ;)


-Sanket

Hi Sanket,
I have sent him a PM for the cams. I maybe able to vouch for 2 sets depending on my friend's comfirmation. So counting you and DanB in that makes it another 2 so left with finding 2-3 more AVL nuts :)

Well, talking of carb I have a VM38 Mikuni sitting on the shelf unfortunately i seemed to have lost the original jets as couple of friends wanted to try it out and had swapped jets for leaner ones. Well, the carb has earned a dubious reputation as "Bike killer" :D ( mostly due to some weird needle jet which doesn't feature in any VM manual-guess this was jetted for a two-stroke ATV/snowmobile earlier). Well, it just sits there on the shelf smiling an evil grin tempting me to make it work but i just got the engine rebuilt so it will have to wait for other unsuspecting nuts who want to try it out despite my advise not to and fry their pistons etc !

Cheers,
Tej

dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2013, 02:33:36 AM »
That's great! Even a friend of mine wants a set.

About the carb -- A VM38?! Paul did mention that some of his machines run on 38mm carbs but our stock head won't be able to take such big carbs. Basanti did use a 36mm flatslide but according to him the TM34 was stronger @ lower revs. With a 38mm carb, you'll need a 350ish size mainjet and 35 or bigger pilot. Not sure which needle and needle jet will work.

-Sanket

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2013, 10:59:11 AM »
Great - Let me get the reply from BW and we can take it forwad from there.

VM 38 is overkill and a killer for the engines a 32-34 carb flatslide/roundslide should be enough and the cams :)

I am happy with the CV carb - no bogging under heavy accelerations gives smooth acceleration from the low upto the mid range and with a 19 tooth sprocket i can cruise all day 2 up ( wifey ) at 90-100 kmph ( 55-60MPH) on state highway with relatively low traffic.

A friend of mine had the VM 34 and it used to foul up plugs till i had his bike for a week and after a few adjustments and a leaky rubber flange change - it works like a charm. But there's always need for the extra 2-3 horses so well let's see where his bike goes next.

Cheers

Goa - here I come :)

dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2013, 11:34:48 AM »
Yes the VM34s will run rich if not tuned correctly (The stock needle jet is on the richer side). But once tuned, they'll do their part. Loving the carb!

You can also check BW's post on AVL500 engine mods. They are pretty solid! He did manage to hit 103mph! Maybe it doesn't offer much space for mods like the Iron Barrel ones do but 33bhp is a good figure for an AVL. One thing that scares me, is the bottom end reliability. We have a lot of AVL users in India who are swapping UCE parts, like the con-ron, barrel, head and they are running strong with those mods. Maybe need some more time for trial and error :)

For the "one sorted Royal Enfield" ;)

-Sanket
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 11:38:31 AM by dampking »

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2013, 03:00:20 AM »
Hi Sanket - P.M. sent to you regarding 'S' cams.
 B.W.

dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2013, 06:17:11 AM »
Thanks Paul.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2013, 12:12:00 PM »
Right Sanket. I have gone the Paul/BW way with the piston-cyl barrel mod as i was getting the engine rebuilt a few days ago. Now the bike has a higher compression and you can tell by the bump in the KS effort needed.

While i was at it had a few 1.5 mm shims added under the valve spring to increase a little spring tension. The carb was running lean with a 130 main, and even a 140 main. Now i have put a 155 main - let's see.

With the old iron cams, I did out accelerate my friends AVL with the VM34 through the gears with both bike running a 19 tooth sprocket. Only issue is that the cams are pretty noisy and there is a massive increase in the exhaust noise. Now I am unhappy with the free flow :( - need a better option now!!!!!

Paul, do the S cams also run noisy on the AVL ???

dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2013, 01:51:59 PM »
When you got the cams installed.. did you check the valve-piston clearance?

About the noise part - maybe because of the extra lift?

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2013, 03:56:18 PM »
TejK,

assuming no valve to piston clearance issues (!) the extra rattle could be due to gear gear tooth wear on the old cam wheels. The UK 500 AVLs came with adjustable valve spindles, I'm guessing the 500 Machismo did too. Might be worth checking if you haven't already done so.

Regarding exhausts, my preference would be for a free-flow down pipe with the short baffled silencer. If you think your free flow pipe is TOO free-flow a Woodsman exhaust pipe has a smaller inside diameter but nowhere near as restrictive as the factory lean burn pipe. Looks classy, too but you'd need to lose the R/H toolbox (and any pillion passenger who doesn't like burnt right legs...).

A.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 01:01:17 AM »
Adrian, Sanket,
I checked and double checked the valve piston clearance and there is sufficient clearance. I did this without the gasket and with some clay ( borrowed it from on of my friend's kindergarden daughter ;) ). The gasket adds about another 1mm to the height and adds similar clearance, I assume.

The noise is 100% the cam-follower noisy and on starting the bike it run very smooth and no engine mechanical noises. But, after warming up it makes the same noise as worn cams. Compression is massive and gives the right leg a massive work out to crank the engine. I'll run the engine for a few hundred kms and see as the noise seems to be subsiding in the last 30 odd kms of riding to work and back.

Since, the S cams are similar to the standard cams , do they also cause some cam noise on installation ? or is the profile more smooth and it runs quieter?


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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2013, 01:28:38 AM »
Ahh nice! Good god lol

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2013, 01:48:35 AM »
Sanket,
Good God is right - Its do or die for this AVL engine for sure. And I can afford to play around with it cause I have a pristine 350cc Original engine sitting at home in case I seriously blow up this one ;) !!

Though little kids are not very happy with me swiping their precious modelling clay !! And still saving for the 34TM Flatslide. God ! When will I get the quarterly bonus !!

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2013, 01:59:47 AM »
Tej - The AVLs are pretty sturdy. I think they can take a lot of torture, compared to the iron barrel ones.


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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2013, 03:21:03 AM »
The 'S' cams are not noisy in the AVL and they are not a 'fierce' or 'lumpy' cam - they just work very well and allow the engine to rev higher, resulting in more speed and power. I don't think shimming the valve springs is necessary - the standard [single] springs are very hard, in any case. It is just bad profiling of the standard cams that induces the valve bounce at around 5,800 rpm. The 'S' cams don't do this. I also converted the testbed machine to the double 'competition' type valve springs from Hitchcocks, these are actually a bit softer than the oem single type, but work better.
 B.W.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2013, 06:09:40 AM »
Thanks BW,
That's right. I just put those in to see if those work as they were pretty worn as compared to the original CI cams. Well, am happy with the way the bike has started revving but that noise from the cams is irritating !! And it was expected but am going to run these cams as they make me smile when I open her up. Since the 'S' are very similar in shape/profile, just wanted to know if they also do the same.

I added the shims to make the valves return faster to the closed position (just a precaution as I am running the cams timed to the marks and didn't want any interference between the piston and valve at high rpm-s ).

Will run her like this for a few hundred kilometres and see how things work out. And in the meanwhile guess I better keep saving for the other bits needed till I get the kind of machine I want out of it.

Sanket,
Guess BW's reply solves the mystery. On another note - I feel Royal Enfield should seriously fire their engine design team and hire BW ! :P

Cheers !



dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2013, 06:23:03 AM »
Nope! Paul is doing what he does best, setting new land speed records :) Check this "Pendine Landspeed racing" thread.

I don't know what to say about the RE guys in Chennai, yes they are bad at certain things but thanks to them for keeping RE alive.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2013, 10:50:50 AM »
Adrian,
Will try out some of those - right now I got some glass wool from the original long Electra silencer and stuffed it in the exhaust. Sounds reasonably OK however sounds like a tin at high rpm-s. I guess the narrow header now has a strange effect with these cams and at high rpm-s the exhaust also make a screaming whistle sound - weird !! :-\

The 'high woodsman exhaust' is out of the question - my wife will not take kindly to getting burnt - it is tempting though ! ;)

Sanket,
Interesting stuff in wales - am sure it will be quite awesome ! More power to BW, I say !!

Cheers !

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2013, 01:45:25 AM »
I'm interested in these S cams.  I have a 2008 AVL and have had up to 75, but was afraid to push it any farther.  Are there any other modifications to the engine, carb, or electrical to use S cams?  I have the stock CV carb.  My bike is pretty much stock mechanically, except that I have removed the stock air box and oil bath air cleaner.  Although more power would be nice, I am concerned about ruining the great gas mileage this bike gets.  I'm setting this bike up for long distance traveling.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2013, 02:30:01 AM »
I'm interested in these S cams.  I have a 2008 AVL and have had up to 75, but was afraid to push it any farther.  Are there any other modifications to the engine, carb, or electrical to use S cams?  I have the stock CV carb.  My bike is pretty much stock mechanically, except that I have removed the stock air box and oil bath air cleaner.  Although more power would be nice, I am concerned about ruining the great gas mileage this bike gets.  I'm setting this bike up for long distance traveling.
Hi Buckeroo,
 The 'S' cams will make an improvement on their own, but really come into their own with other modifications, too. Personally, I would raise the compression ratio to 9.2:1 [I shorten the cylinder barrel and modify the piston crown to achieve this], Straight through 'Goldie' silencer - ie the type with the perforated tube and wadding inside that you can look in one end and see out the other and NOT the staggered metal baffle type , the performance CDI [TCI] - I pioneered these and they make a difference on their own and a nice, big, Amal MK II - I tried 32mm [MK I], 34mm MK II and 36mm MK II and the biggest gave the most power throughout the rev range - no flat spots, good starting and idling. I also fitted a 19t gearbox sprocket in place of the standard 18t job, to raise the gearing a little, although this machine had an 18" rear wheel. In my quest to prevent the violent valve bounce, which acts like a rev limiter, I had also fitted a set of double competition valve springs as available for the 'Classic' engines, but these may not be necessary, as I still had valve bounce after fitting them - it was the fitment of the 'S' cams that sorted it.
 I am currently weighing up getting more 'S' cams made, unfortunately they are not cheap, due to the small numbers involved when I order them, but they definitely work !!
 B.W.[
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 02:34:15 AM by Bullet Whisperer »

Ice

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2013, 07:46:17 AM »
I'm interested in these S cams.  I have a 2008 AVL and have had up to 75, but was afraid to push it any farther.  Are there any other modifications to the engine, carb, or electrical to use S cams?  I have the stock CV carb.  My bike is pretty much stock mechanically, except that I have removed the stock air box and oil bath air cleaner.  Although more power would be nice, I am concerned about ruining the great gas mileage this bike gets.  I'm setting this bike up for long distance traveling.

 Hi Buckeroo,
 I don't think the S-cams themselves will hurt fuel fuel economy at all in normal riding and may improve it. Normal riding is the key and most folks forget that.

 Let me try to put it in context I.E. my Iron Barrel.
Intake & exhaust are re jetted and de restricted, compression is raised slightly. These simple mods do pass more gas but the slight bump in compression extracts a little more power from each drop of fuel so I can use less throttle than before for the same rate of acceleration and the same cruising speed with a little less throttle.
 
 The fuel efficiency is improved by a bit and it shows in commuting but I use up that gain by riding hard on the weekends and so it evens out.

 

   

 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 07:52:41 AM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2013, 06:11:52 PM »
I'm more of an easy rider, but will crank on occasionally.  The RE takes a different riding style than most bikes I have owned or rode in my life.  I came along just when you met the nicest people on a Honda era.  Since then, I have had a few crotch rocket experiences.  But when I tour, I generally plod along looking at the scenery.  But it is nice to have the power to escape a situation or go up a really steep hill fully loaded.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

Ice

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2013, 07:00:30 PM »
 Bills Harris Scrambler pulls about like his BSA 441Victor did and he has yet to raise the compression.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2013, 02:18:26 AM »
With all the mods done, the engine gains a lot of power, everywhere. It is then up to the individual how it is used / ridden, but I had great fun once on the testbed machine imagining I had just robbed a post office and was making a quick getaway on it - out of character for an Enfield to encourage such boistrous behaviour, but that one did  ;D ;D
 B.W.

dampking

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2013, 02:44:13 AM »
Paul, when you worked on this Electra did you notice any big end issues? The AVLs  big ends fail here like anything, I guess a sleeve should sort this for us but no idea if anyone can get this kind of job done.

Regards,
Sanket
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 02:25:51 PM by dampking »

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2013, 01:25:00 PM »
Paul, when you worked on this Electra did you notice any big end issues? The AVLs  big ends fail here like anything, I guess a sleeve should sort this for us but no idea if anyone can get this kind of job done.

Regards,
Zieu
Hi Zieu,
 I don't remember what mileage was on that testbed machine, I know it had a knock which I was asked to check out and it was a loose mainshaft nut inboard of the generator flywheel - I tightened it to get rid of the noise.
 A couple of weeks ago, I had the top end off another AVL for some tuning work and the big end felt like new, with 15,000 miles on the clock, if that helps.
 B.W.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2013, 03:27:45 PM »
That gives me hope. But even with that...  I am kind of "OK" with 1 rebuild after every 30,000 kms. That's pretty much how the game goes here, that is after riding  seriously hard :D


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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2013, 04:39:08 PM »
Just to inform anyone who may still be interested, another batch of 'S' cams are on order from the cam makers, one set will be going into a machine I am upgrading here in the U.K., the rest should be available to interested parties Worldwide  ;) .
 B.W.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2013, 06:36:27 PM »
Count me in. PM sent
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

armando_chavez

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2013, 04:40:54 PM »
I've been following a lot of RE famous names for a while now...about 6 months. haha I've felt like a weirdo just following conversations, so i finally registered.  I have especially read a lot of bullet whisperers threads.  I too am very interested in the S cams for my 2007 royal enfield bullet electra x AVL.  I love the bike making it into a cafe bike.  I am happy with it, unfortunately i am absolutely addicted to modifying my toys. I am very down for a set of the S cams!! I have a TM 32 on the electra now with free flow pipe and unifilter works great very easy instal and tune, thanks to the forums! i've hit around 80-85mph but i want at least 100 one day...

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2013, 06:03:42 PM »
I was thinking of trying the TM32 in the near future.  Do you feel as if you have it jetted well?  At some point, let us know what your pilot and main jet #s are.  A few guys run the TM32 on the Iron barrels but I'm not sure anyone has posted info for the AVLs.

Welcome to the forum.
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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2013, 07:21:50 PM »
Hi armando_chavez and welcome aboard.  :)
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

DanB

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2013, 09:39:09 PM »
Quote
I was thinking of trying the TM32 in the near future.

My winter project as well. There are specs for bedlams tm32 used in his AVL in the tech section under carb settings thread.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2013, 03:21:15 PM »
Nice thanks for the heads up. I'll get those fork notes up there too.
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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2013, 04:21:42 PM »
Quote
I'll get those fork notes up there too.

Thanks!  It's stopped weeping at the fork.. so either its all leaked out, or I overfilled it or the gunk i rode through the other day sealed it (wishful thinking).  I want to pull the forks (and fix the seals), remove the paint and polish; like the Harris Scrambler!  Love that look.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2013, 05:50:49 PM »
About the TM i really like it! i thought it brought a big difference out of my bull.  ive hit 85 mph! About the jets, yes i tuned the carb very well i think.  as far as i know i guess.  the bike seems more powerful and does not pop at all it idles good and everything.  I cant remember what the jets are.  although i posted them on the yahoo groups as 200 main 30 pilot P6 needle and stock needle at third groove(middle i think). Im thinking about going straight pipe so ill have to re jet accordingly and ill let you know what i have on it for sure.

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2013, 04:20:30 AM »
I would like a set

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2013, 05:07:23 PM »
Just to inform anyone who may still be interested, another batch of 'S' cams are on order from the cam makers, one set will be going into a machine I am upgrading here in the U.K., the rest should be available to interested parties Worldwide  ;) .
 B.W.
How much for a set?
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

Ice

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Re: Harris Scrambler gets 'S' cams
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2013, 05:37:30 PM »
Send him a PM.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.