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Author Topic: Help with crankshaft please  (Read 758 times)

wernwilk

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Help with crankshaft please
« on: May 09, 2013, 06:33:09 PM »
Hello all,
I have been on here previously with problems with a 2003 bullet.
I have more it would seem.

so after a full rebuild from the ground up including new mains, seals, piston and rings etc....I have the bike all together and was proceeding to try a first start.
The engine turns over great and all seemed well.

The bike would not fire up - good spark, plugs getting wet etc..

I checked the valves and the adjustment is correct..

however - here is the kicker.....I took off the timing cover again to triple check the timing was correct.....upon removing the cover to my horror the entire oil pump worm drive dropped into the oil pan i was using..

I though that odd as it tightened up fine on the crankshaft....on closer inspection I saw that the cranshaft had in fact SHEARED OFF completely on the worm drive end!!!

So now i will have to get the motor back out and tear the entire thing down again......I guess my question is;

 - Am I able to get  just the crankshaft half on the timing gear side and if so how difficult is it to install on the crankshaft?

Are there any tips or tricks to this install.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

ace.cafe

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 08:23:06 PM »
Yes, you can get just the shaft on the timing side, which you can press out the old shaft from the flywheel, and press the new one in. Unfortunately, this requires total disassembly and splitting of the crank assembly in order to do it.

But the part is not terribly expensive. It's just a lot of labor.
You can order the part from our hosts, NField Gear.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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wernwilk

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 08:34:47 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

On the labor side of things....is it a press fit? 
So would it be a case of heating the crank flywheel and freezing the new gear shaft?

Thanks.

ace.cafe

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 08:44:42 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

On the labor side of things....is it a press fit? 
So would it be a case of heating the crank flywheel and freezing the new gear shaft?

Thanks.

Yes, it's a press fit on a taper. It only comes out and goes in one way.
The hot flywheel and cold shaft wouldn't hurt.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Arizoni

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 12:02:09 AM »
Just out of curiosity, isn't there something that times that shaft to the crank throw?

Seems like it is driving the cams and the ignition so there must be some sort of positive anti-rotation in there?
Jim
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Ice

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 12:40:54 AM »
Just out of curiosity, isn't there something that times that shaft to the crank throw?

Seems like it is driving the cams and the ignition so there must be some sort of positive anti-rotation in there?

You are correct.

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wernwilk

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 03:38:05 AM »
ok, great advice thanks guys.

Its a real pain as I have to tear the whole thing down again but at least the timing shaft is cheaper than a whole crank.

I'll be ordering the parts asap, on removing the old shaft..is it a push out or will it need drifting loose?


Arizoni

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 04:17:07 AM »
I'm just guessing but the taper looks much like a Morse taper, used on machine tools.
It is a self locking taper which will not simply push out.
Once it is moved by tapping it along the line of its axis it will release.

I'm sure Ace can give you a better answer.
Jim
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RGT

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 08:29:28 AM »
This would be a good time to check those oil pumps to make sure they can turn smoothly and that there no little pieces that could be causing them not to spin, I just snapped the crank on my Harley at the pinion drive for the oil pump and I am pretty sure when I open the oil pump up I am going to find some crap(I guess you could have something jammimg the timing, idler or ignition gear but you get the idea, find out what caused the overload)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:08:20 AM by RGT »

ace.cafe

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 12:21:56 PM »
When you assemble the timing side cover, it is critical to use the proper thickness timing cover gasket. This sets all the end play clearances for the cams and idlers, and also affects the depth of the engagement of the worm nut into the oil-pump drive spindle teeth.
You can't just go throwing any old gasket in there. There are several thicknesses of gaskets for the timing side, and if you don't know which one was on there when you took it apart, then you need to re-set all your end-play clearances with the proper shims and your spindle drive engagement.
This is why I always recommend that people try to preserve their timing cover gasket when they take it off. And always check to see that the engine freely rotates by hand after tightening up the timing cover. If you have it too tight, the engine won't turn, and severe binding will occur on the shaft. Also, if you changed oil pumps, you need to be sure that they also turn thru the entire rotation smoothly because they are known to sometimes not fit well and they can lock up the whole works.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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wernwilk

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 05:22:56 PM »
Tremendous advice gentlemen,  I appreciate it.
Just as a background on the said engine.
rebuild following a cracked crankcase, new top end and rebore.
Crank/big end was good.  Rebuilt using genuine RE gasket set.
Oil pump checked out good and motor turned at every step to ensure nothing was unduely tight.
Ace- would a genuine gasket set not have the correct thickness gasket?
Is there anything else I should look for that could have led to this?

Also, when the bike was together before the crankshaft break, I did try firing it up...it span the motor great but would not fire, I checked the spark which was great and also the timing of the spark which was slightly off.....there isn't a way of timing the distributor up wrong regarding the drive to it is there?
Also the plug was wet but still no fire up???

ace.cafe

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Re: Help with crankshaft please
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2013, 09:18:53 PM »
Tremendous advice gentlemen,  I appreciate it.
Just as a background on the said engine.
rebuild following a cracked crankcase, new top end and rebore.
Crank/big end was good.  Rebuilt using genuine RE gasket set.
Oil pump checked out good and motor turned at every step to ensure nothing was unduely tight.
Ace- would a genuine gasket set not have the correct thickness gasket?
Is there anything else I should look for that could have led to this?

Also, when the bike was together before the crankshaft break, I did try firing it up...it span the motor great but would not fire, I checked the spark which was great and also the timing of the spark which was slightly off.....there isn't a way of timing the distributor up wrong regarding the drive to it is there?
Also the plug was wet but still no fire up???

I have seen 3 different timing cover gaskets in "Genuine" gasket sets. You need to use the same thickness gasket as was previously in there.

Yes, the ignition timing can lose synchronization with the engine any time you remove the timing idler gears. If the gears were not witness-marked before removal, and the engine moved at all, or the distributor gear moved at all, then the synchronization is lost, and the ignition must be re-set so that synchronization is then correct.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info