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Author Topic: Mystery wire identification  (Read 1297 times)

herrbongo

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Mystery wire identification
« on: May 14, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
I have one of those "grey-market" Indian restored 500s, so I can't really offer any model year to help, the bike is a mishmash of parts.  There is a wire hanging loose behind the battery-box that terminates with an eyelet.  The way it is bent, it looks like it would have been attached to the front seat bracket bolt, or some other frame connection near there.  Can anyone help me identify this wire?  It disappears into the main harness bundle going to the front.  Thanks!
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs

The Garbone

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2013, 06:19:17 PM »
Does everything work?

It could be a ground.  Hook it to the frame and if your harness does not melt and/or catch on fire and everything works  you should be good.   

A picture may help..
Gary
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Arizoni

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2013, 09:48:06 PM »
If you have a volt/ohm meter, checking to see if the wire is powered before attaching it to the frame might save the bike from the meltdown The Garbone was mentioning. :)

If the wire is not powered when the ignition key is on and something isn't working it might be the ground wire.

If everything is working and the wire is not powered when the key is on it might be just one of the many mystery's the middle east is famous for.
Jim
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herrbongo

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 02:31:55 PM »
Last night I did some checking.  The wire had continuity to ground, zero resistance.  With it not connected, voltage across the battery terminals while running bounced wildly showing 12v, 0v, 30v... skipping constantly.  When I attached the mystery wire to a good ground point on the frame, voltage across the terminals stabilized varying only from 12V to 15V, and never showing less than 12v.  It seems to me to be a charging system related wire, but weird that it goes into the harness heading towards the front of bike, when my regulator and rectifier are under the seat.  Is there a ground for the ammeter that must be hooked up for proper charging, or is that grounded simply from being mounted to the metal nacelle?
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs

baird4444

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 05:18:25 PM »
on the orig. setup, all power goes thru the amp meter...   if wire cums off meter
the bike dies. Hot from key to ignition also goes thru the meter.
that wild 30 volt swing may not be good. I think I'd go ahead and go to ground.
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Arizoni

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 10:32:01 PM »
The widely varying voltage with the wire loose indicates it is a part of the charging circuit that needs to be grounded.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

herrbongo

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 02:28:43 AM »
Wire is grounded now, and so far so good.
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs

herrbongo

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 02:24:52 PM »
All is not well, actually.  Still not charging.  I have a new question: is my headlight AC or DC?  I have a 4-wire stator that is hooked up to 4 wires of the same color from the harness.  I also have a AC regulator on the back fender with two yellow wires to it.  This all indicates I have an AC headlight.  The weird part is I have a bright full headlight with key on and engine off.  I thought that meant a DC headlight.  Is it possible to have it wired for both?  Again this is an Indian restored bullet, so likely would have been a DC headlight originally.  The stator and harness are all brand new, so this is all rewired.  It likely won't follow the rules for anything the factory ever did.  Last ride it ran great with a bright headlight (night ride).  After a 10 mile run, shut it down and read 9V at the battery!  Charged it up and it holds at 12.7 with no loss over a couple days.
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs

D the D

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 04:02:38 PM »
Yours is DC.  If your headlight only worked with the engine running it's AC.  Your tail light and gauge illumination should come on with the key on, engine off.  Since they are DC, they will run off the battery. The AC headlight won't.  AC headlights will also dim at idle and flare bright with rpm.
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herrbongo

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 04:41:24 PM »
I wonder if the two yellow AC leads from the stator are sending current to anything?  The AC rectifier for headlight is wired up, but as you pointed out I obviously have a DC headlight circuit. I'd like to parralel the two yellows into the battery charging system since my headlight is drawing off the battery, so it likely needs the boost.  I don't want to smoke the rectifier/regulator in the process though.
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs

High On Octane

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 09:26:09 PM »
I wonder if the two yellow AC leads from the stator are sending current to anything?  The AC rectifier for headlight is wired up, but as you pointed out I obviously have a DC headlight circuit. I'd like to parralel the two yellows into the battery charging system since my headlight is drawing off the battery, so it likely needs the boost.  I don't want to smoke the rectifier/regulator in the process though.

Hold Up!  Usually the 2 yellow wires on just about any rectifier are your inputs from the stator.  You need to test your stator to see if it's putting anything out or not.  You can usually do this with a multi meter by connecting any 2 of the wires coming off the stator to the leads at your multi meter.  Most bikes should read somewhere in the 80 volt range at around 2K RPMS.  Go back and forth and test all the variations between connecting the different wires until every write has connected with each other.

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D the D

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 10:23:40 PM »
Scottie J is right. Don't hook anything up until you've metered and know what is on those wires! You might fry some expensive stuff.
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1975 XLCH

herrbongo

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 02:40:52 PM »
I've got the meter out and put to use.  What is known is the two purples from the stator put out good AC voltage disconnected and metered.  They are the only AC feeding the rectifier, which passes the diode test.  There is good AC coming from the yellow and orange leads on the stator, disconnected, and seen again at the wires to the little black plastic headlight regulator.  All makes sense EXCEPT: headlight on when engine not running.  Also, when running the RPMs have no affect on the brightness of the headlight. As much as I don't want to open the nacelle, might be the only way to sort this out.
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs

High On Octane

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 02:59:44 PM »
I've got the meter out and put to use.  What is known is the two purples from the stator put out good AC voltage disconnected and metered.  They are the only AC feeding the rectifier, which passes the diode test.  There is good AC coming from the yellow and orange leads on the stator, disconnected, and seen again at the wires to the little black plastic headlight regulator.  All makes sense EXCEPT: headlight on when engine not running.  Also, when running the RPMs have no affect on the brightness of the headlight. As much as I don't want to open the nacelle, might be the only way to sort this out.

Just because the stator is testing good doesn't rule out a charging issue.  Next, hook the wires back up and now test the voltage at the battery.  Everything shut off, your battery should read between 12.4-12.8 volts.  With the key/lights on and engine off, you should have a .3-.5 volt drop at the battery.  Next start the bike, with the engine running, you should now be showing somewhere between 13-14.4 volts.  If your voltage drops further upon starting the bike and not increase in voltage, this would indicated a rectifier failure, and should be replaced before you do anything else.  By all means, inspect your harness for breaks, wears and burns, but I wouldn't change anything until you have 110% verified that your ENTIRE charging system is working properly.  Just 1 small failure anywhere in the charging system will cause the battery not to charge.

Also, you may have a phased ignition switch on your bike.  Some of the old Enfileds actually run the rectifier through the ignition switch.  I haven't a clue how those work or how to test it.  I personally got rid of mine and opted to run a simplified wire harness with absolute bare minimals.  If you do have a phased ignition switch and it has failed, this too could cause charging issues.  FYI

Scottie

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herrbongo

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Re: Mystery wire identification
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2013, 04:34:41 PM »
I went for a long ride with the headlight disconnected, and ended the trip with 13.3V at the battery (bike off).  The charging system is working, but not providing the battery with enough charge from the purple leads alone and the DC headlight running.  I was thinking the yellow leads from the stator, and the purple leads were putting out matching current levels which is why I thought to parallel them in and increase the charge. I have since learned that the yellow get output from two coils, while the purple come from only one.  I just switched the wires so the yellows are feeding the reg/rectifier.  Went for a long ride with the headlight on... 13.3V at the end with bike off.  Success!  For now I will leave the purple stator output wires disconnected.  I have the option later of paralleling them in if I need it, but with them disconnected I figure the rectifier/regulator might last longer.  Any thoughts on this setup?
1962-2000 G2 Mystery-year Bullet 500cc
Yamaha RD350 & CS3E
Air-cooled VWs