HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

fishtail


in
Members Rides

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 02, 2014, 05:12:59 PM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: AVL Electra stalling  (Read 1316 times)

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
AVL Electra stalling
« on: June 04, 2013, 10:16:10 PM »
As I'm approaching a light or stop sign, I downshift and just before coming to a stop, the bike loses power (engine) and, if I pop the clutch, it usually re-fires. One time I had to use the e-start with the lights off to get her to fire. Could it be the side stand switch? Or ???

REpozer

  • Superfly and
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2841
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 10:31:15 PM »
I unplugged my side stand switch by unplugging it from my green( if yours is black, call for the green one) TCI box under the seat.
I have had some "engine stumbling" and stalling from the intake rubber boots, not being on properly( vacuum leak) . That's also the main reason to remove the PAV ..a couple a feet of vacuum lines.
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
REA # 84 ( the first time)

Arizoni

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4283
  • Karma: 0
  • "But it's a dry heat here in Arizona
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 10:34:26 PM »
That's one possibility you could eliminate if you want to risk not having that safety feature.
They have caused a number of problems on the UCE powered bikes.

On the UCE bikes, disconnecting the small plastic electrical connector where the switch plugs into the main harness disables it.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 10:36:30 PM »
Could e, but if it fires up again easily, then maybe not. Check for vacuum leaks is a good point. And definitely get the green tdi box if you don't have it.

I'd try to increase your idle a bit. Sounds like you maybe running a little rich as you come off the throttle, so increase the idle and adjust the mixture screw clockwise a quarter turn (leaning it a smig) and see if that further increases the idle. If yes, then adjust idle to where u want (~1000 rpm) and check again. Make sure things are nice a warm.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8176
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 11:45:58 PM »
Very often, the cause of stalling at stoplights is that the carb needs tuning when warm.
If the carb is tuned before the bike is fully warmed-up, then it gets too rich when it's hot, and then it stalls out when you try to come to a stop. It is common that the problem is cured simply by doing a proper carb tuning procedure after the bike is nice and hot. A typical side effect of this cure is that the bike will then definitely need the choke lever to start when cold, which is the way it should be anyway.

This is extremely common to see on the Iron Barrel models.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 11:48:11 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2013, 09:01:06 PM »
Thanks for all the input..I'll be checking out the vacuum lines and trying DanB's carb tip. The bike really doesn't need choke all that much in the morning and the prev owner said the dealer jetted the bike before he took it home...Hmm..

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 01:56:36 AM »
Unplugging the green side stand switch wire has eliminated the stalling issue. I had a really enjoyable ride after dinner this evening.

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 06:57:02 PM »
Still stalling but only when coming up to a red light/stop sign. Restarts right away and never misses a beat when moving. Sometimes has a hesitation when trying to take off from a stop. Turning in the carb screw all the way causes a slight drop in idle speed. Carb cleaner around carb/intake makes no difference. Gonna go spray around the vac lines of the PAV.

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 10:54:51 PM »
I think your running slightly rich. If you have leaks you'd be running leaning. But do check anyway.

For the mixture screw, turn it just a 1/4 at a time and listen to the idle. I like to find where it first starts to drop, then turn it back out by an 1/8 or so. Remember, clockwise lean, counter clockwise rich for the stock cv carb.

The bike must be warmed up to find the right tuning. Ride for 10 to 20 minutes. Adjust. Then go fr a test ride. If needed increase the idle with the idle screw.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 11:26:20 PM »
Dan, the mixture screw is the one on the left side of the bike (side stand) in the lower front corner? It's the only adjustment I see aside from the idle knob and bowl drain. That screw has a minimal effect on idle..all the way in, it should stall I would think, but doesn't. turning between 1 and 3 turns has no noticeable change in idle speed. I'm gonna take the screw out tomorrow and spray some 2+2 in the hole..maybe a blockage. ??

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 12:58:10 AM »
Yep, thats the one.  It wont stall the bike if you turn it all the way in.  But it will run starved at idle & hot.  This screw adjusts the pilot mixture... so it affects: starting, idle, going on to the throttle 0 to 1/4 or so (overlaps with the needle) and coming off the throttle.. hence it stalls when you come to a stop (closed throttle bog).  At least this is what i think.  Ace outlined the condition above.  Ive attached more details below on the carb and its function.

So, I'd start back with the screw in the original position (did you remember that?  2 to 3 turns out from full stop if on stock pilot jet).  Warm up the bike, and screw it in say 1/4 to a 1/2... leaning out the circuit.  Then do test ride to see if it still stalls.  You shouldn't hear any pinging or popping in the exhaust (indicating too lean or an exhaust leak).  Also, may want to try bringing up the idle a bit.  I find my electra likes a slightly faster tickover.  If done right, you wont stall, and should need the choke at startup.

Theres lots of information on this forum on tuning carbs; specifically in the AVL section.  Have a search.

Hope this helps and let us know if this works.




Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3785
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 02:30:58 PM »
I think your running slightly rich. If you have leaks you'd be running leaning. But do check anyway.

For the mixture screw, turn it just a 1/4 at a time and listen to the idle. I like to find where it first starts to drop, then turn it back out by an 1/8 or so. Remember, clockwise lean, counter clockwise rich for the stock cv carb.

The bike must be warmed up to find the right tuning. Ride for 10 to 20 minutes. Adjust. Then go fr a test ride. If needed increase the idle with the idle screw.

DanB is right.  The bike must be at operating temperature and you don't want to move the air screw more than a 1/4 turn at a time.  The best way to get where you need to be on MOST carbs is to turn in the air screw until the bike starts to puke out, then screw it back out a 1/4 to 1/2 turn.  (According to DanB this may be backwards for the stock carb? ??? ) After every adjustment, blip the throttle at about 1/3 throttle turns.  Basically pull a 1/3 throttle and let go.  Do this a few times after each adjustment from idle.  When the bike STOPS stumbling upon initial opening of the throttle, that's where you need to be.  If it requires you to turn out the air screw more than 2 1/2 turns OR have it all the way closed, you need to look at different jets and needle positions.  This is a sure fire way to correct problems from idle to 1/4 throttle.  It's worked for me on my dirt bikes for years.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2013, 01:39:50 AM »
Thanks Scottie. Just FYI, the cv carb doesn't have an air screw, it's a mixture/volume screw. Turning in or clockwise leans it; turning out enriches the circuit. These screws have lots of room for turning out. Ive read folks have gone as far as 6 complete turns when they have gone to a freer flowing intake and exhaust.

I ended up use one size larger pilot, 17.5, for this very reason and it likes a smig more than 1/2 a turn out.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 05:33:59 PM »
I determined that the stalling is still an electrical issue..it lost power at a steady 55 on the highway like I had hit the run/stop switch. Had 4 separate stalling incidents at stop signs/lights this morning also. On a side note, a Suzuki TU250 with a rider outweighing me, is (slightly)faster in a sprint than the AVL Electra.

dampking

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 348
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2013, 07:00:12 PM »
The stock Airfilter, exhaust and Carb doesn't do justice to the Electra X. Maybe by changing these 3 parts you'll get some decent crisp and some more hike in HP. These same electras do 145kph~150kph true speeds on GPS with the mentioned mods. With a 19T front sprocket, maybe 5kms more? or so..

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2013, 02:31:29 AM »
The sprint race was just a mention..I wouldn't care if this bike was even slower than it is..I'd just love for it to stay running reliably. I fear taking it anywhere thinking I'll end up pushing it.

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2013, 03:12:26 AM »
Has it failed to start again right away?  What happened when you lost power at 55 and has it done that before?  Have you replaced the spark plug with an ngk?

I still lean towards the stall at stop is a carb tuning issue. But the loss of power at 55 does sound electrical. I think I would start with the easy stuff:

- change plug and check hi tension cable for no insulation breakdowns. Might want to check how good of a spark you have. Could be coil related(?)
- pull seat and pull the TCI box. Clean all contacts and make sure they are well seated ( also a good time to check what color todo box you have. It's its black, get the upgraded replacement by calling CMW. You'll need your vin number)
- check cable bundles on either side of front fork. They can rub here.
- lastly, remove the headlight and get into the rats nest of wiring. Check for good connections and broken wires, etc...  Check connections at amp meter and as they come out of the kill switch.

Others may have a better protocol to follow.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2013, 03:18:00 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Dan.  My brother was behind me when it cut out..said my lights never shut off..after a second or two, she came back to life.  when at a stop, she starts to falter unless I play the throttle, some times getting a healthy spark knock before recovering (weird!) I feel silly asking how the seat is removed..Not sure what bolt to remove. I'd really like to check the ignition unit too.

And it seems once at my destination, she'll just keep idling happily. Only seems to act up at the worst moments!!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 03:25:23 AM by Techmaven »

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2013, 04:00:28 AM »
Pull the seat:  Remove the 4 bolts on the back of the seat that hold the grab rail (assuming you're still using the double stock seat).  Seat just lefts up from the back and slides off.  Easy.

Stall at 55:  Did it cough and sputter or just died out?
Stall at stop:  Dont think this is electrical, but carb tuning, especially as you keep it going with a throttle blip.

Another thought occurred to me, make sure your engine breather is free and clear.  This is the tube that comes from the crank case (black, about 1/2 in diameter) and goes to the catch can by the battery.  Engine needs to breath but i dont think it'll cause a stall at 55... ive been wrong before tho.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2013, 02:06:30 PM »

Stall at 55:  Did it cough and sputter or just died out?
Stall at stop:  Dont think this is electrical, but carb tuning, especially as you keep it going with a throttle blip.

Another thought occurred to me, make sure your engine breather is free and clear.  This is the tube that comes from the crank case (black, about 1/2 in diameter) and goes to the catch can by the battery.  Engine needs to breath but i dont think it'll cause a stall at 55... ive been wrong before tho.

The engine just cut out as if I shut the key off...came back to life just as suddenly. I'm gonna check the breather tube in a few minutes...Could the clogged breather cause the faltering coming to a stop?

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2013, 03:14:10 AM »
Quote
...Could the clogged breather cause the faltering coming to a stop?

I don't think so. Have you turned the carb yet when the bike is nice and warm? Did turning up the idle make a difference?
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2013, 11:40:50 AM »
I don't think so. Have you turned the carb yet when the bike is nice and warm? Did turning up the idle make a difference?

Neither adjusting the mixture screw nor slightly raising the idle has helped. The mixture screw really doesn't do anything at all.

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2013, 04:09:13 PM »
Hmmm, ok, I'm thinking if the mixture screw has no effect, then one of 2 things is going on. 1. The air passages are gunked up and it needs a good disassembly and cleaning (watch out for the little washer in the mixture/fuel screw assembly. It can get stuck in the cavity and then blows out with air making it easy to loose). 2. The pilot jet is too rich. Do you know what's in there now?  Stock is a 15. It's marked on the jet itself once you pull it out.

There's lots of info on carb cleaning in this forum as well as YouTube.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2013, 08:05:53 PM »
Pilot is 15 Main is 110..Original owner said dealer jetted the bike before delivery..Pilot was blocked..I cleaned and shot carb cleaner into the passage and through mixture screw opening. Raining now so test ride will have to wait.

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2013, 10:28:26 PM »
Took bike for a short ride around the town. Seems only to falter when at a stop or nearing a stop. as the ride progressed, it was more inclined to spark knock as I re-started it(During the re-start). When I got home I shut the key, it had stalled as I stopped in the driveway. While kicking to TDC for wet sump prevention, I went past TDC and the bike momentarily fired with the key removed..Hot Spot?  Plug to hot? Should I call Steven Hawking?

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 07:43:01 PM »
Compression test...warm, full throttle 158psi.

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3785
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2013, 09:09:41 PM »
Compression test...warm, full throttle 158psi.

That sounds damn solid to me.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2013, 03:32:12 PM »
On each ride after doing the carb cleaning, the bike has not faltered or stalled even once. Went back to regular grade gas but it will knock if I short shift in this 90+ heat. Bike has been a pleasure for the last week of riding. A small clutch adjustment should make everything perfect.

DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2013, 03:14:55 AM »
Excellent!  Glad to hear you got it sorted.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

Techmaven

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Re: AVL Electra stalling
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2013, 05:42:16 PM »
Funny thing Dan, The cutting out seemed SO electrical! Amazing to me is how a dirty pilot can cause this symptom!