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Author Topic: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???  (Read 3893 times)

wildbill

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UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« on: June 06, 2013, 05:53:42 AM »
Over the past few weeks I've been reading various threads from new bike members. Appears to me the new league of owners are plagued with as many problems as the veteran boys. ;D I've had my fair share of problems too.
Really,you'd think these Indian bike builders could get it together. It's not a highly sophisticated unit like a MV Augusta etc.
Certainly makes me wonder what I'm in for when my cafe racer arrives in oz  around end of year. :(
Actually pretty scarey...........my C5 running great!
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
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2014 C5 tan/cheery - upgrades and work in progress

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GreenMachine

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 03:01:39 PM »
Seems that way but time will tell for sure...I think it still a better build from my 06 iron but not surprised by some of the problems encountered.  I feel for the fellows that brought the c5 configured for ES only.. :P
Oh Magoo you done it again

barenekd

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 03:50:37 PM »
Yes, they are better. The people on the forum are the ones having some problems. There are a lot of people out there who are not on the forum who never have any! Now that the UCEs are catching up with the number of Iron barrels there are more UCE messages than iron barrel anyway.
Overall, the UCE problems are minor things compared to the iron barrel stuff. You see very few instances of UCEs having to be completely torn down.
I think you will be quite satisfied with the Cafe Racer!
Bare
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singhg5

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 04:01:30 PM »
Yes, they are better. The people on the forum are the ones having some problems. There are a lot of people out there who are not on the forum who never have any! Now that the UCEs are catching up with the number of Iron barrels there are more UCE messages than iron barrel anyway.
Overall, the UCE problems are minor things compared to the iron barrel stuff. You see very few instances of UCEs having to be completely torn down.
I think you will be quite satisfied with the Cafe Racer!
Bare

+1.

Some of the problems are maintenance issues or dealer preps or just repeat questions exploring new dimensions. The posts on this Forum are from bikes made in Old factory. It will take some time to see whether the bikes made in New Factory have fewer issues.

In my opinion buying a newly designed Cafe Racer may have some challenges that could be ironed out in a year or two. But that should not deter any buyer who really wants it but be prepared if something does pop up (as happened for C5 wobble in a few bikes NOT ALL).

These bikes are not for everbody as they still require some TLC for most of the riders. Once setup right and ridden the way they are meant to be, they give more smiles per miles.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 06:14:18 PM by singhg5 »
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 04:52:40 PM »
+2.  All forums for all bikes are loaded with people seeking help on a problem.  It can make any bike look terrible.  Probably even worse for us, many RE owner's are hands on people so seek to solve problems themselves.

Scott

no bs

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 06:26:30 PM »
problem solving builds character and confidence. the forum provides a shortcut, if you will, for most common faults(and some damn uncommon). gotta love it!
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REpozer

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 08:06:57 PM »
You mean better then my 2008 AVL Royal Enfield?
  I don't think that's possible.
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GreenMachine

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 10:31:19 PM »
RePozer: u have the best of two parts put together.. 8)
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2013, 12:58:45 AM »
As the guy who has read the warranty claims for 15 years the UCE bikes are more reliable. If for no other reason than the EFI and design of the engine. There was nothing wrong with the iron barrel, but it was 1938 technology. those of us old enough to remember bikes from the 1950's and before remember that until the Japanese came to town every car or bike required at least a full year of auto shop in high school or more. You ALWAYS had to tweak something. It was normal everyday life and no one thought anything of it. Such was life with the iron barrel. I have the very last 500 iron barrel ever made and the prototype ES bike and would not trade them for anything.

The AVL engine was a full step forward. Mostly because of a better crank, oil system, alloy barrel, electronic ignition, CV carb and a 5 speed transmission. We really had very little trouble with them (except for sprag clutch's).

The UCE is an entirely modern design. Modern design means an engine that is all but "Bullet proof" pun intended. We have 10% of the claims we used to have on iron barrels.

There is not substitute for a good dealer. You really need to think about this when you buy a bike. If you buy a bike from across the country because you can save $200 who is going to be there for you when something happens? If you begrudge your dealer a fair profit you are going to be very unhappy when he is no longer in business. I would say that the satisfaction of our customers has a 95% correlation to who the dealer is.

Craig McClure

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2013, 03:31:38 AM »
+++1, I only wish my old Bod was as reliable, & easy to maintain.  Having owned many singles from the 50's & 60's, This'n is the best! - It's pretty to!(2010 G5 Deluxe)

Craig McClure, Jasper Ga, USA
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

dampking

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2013, 07:32:33 AM »
Aren't the UCE bottom end better than the AVLs? I have also heard that the AVL crank and con rod is pretty much same as the UCEs but not really sure about that :)

-Sanket

Sectorsteve

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2013, 09:59:44 AM »
i just drove from sydney to brisbane via new england highway and some backroads. 2000 kms in 4 days. gunned down the pacific highway at 110-120kph to get home quick. the bike went well. used $100 worth of fuel. Ive had my bike almost a year and done 20000km. no problems. replaced the rear sprocket, got new chain. Had a problem with a broken battery terminal which stopped the bike, but now all seems well. Just had to fix a puncture and was stoked at how easy it was to get rear wheel on and off. The only negative thing here in sydney is dealers. The one major seller wants to keep you in the dark about everything about the bike. This is so he can charge you $300 to change your oil. He will not give any advice, help out in anyway unless you book in for service.  Theres a new dealer but they know know jack. As with all my old bikes its time to do most the shit myself. its easier. I think the bike is awesome. a bit cheaply made, but boy did she run well up to the 1300 metres alt on my ride. i was loaded up too. saddle bags, tools, sleeping stuff...

gremlin

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2013, 02:04:46 PM »
...........The one major seller wants to keep you in the dark about everything about the bike. This is so he can charge you $300 to change your oil. He will not give any advice, help out in anyway unless you book in for service.  Theres a new dealer but they know know jack. As with all my old bikes its time to do most the shit myself. its easier......


Yep - it can be easier, until you run into a warranty claim.  I don't know what kind of consumer protection laws cover you down under.

It might be worth your time to investigate if changing your own oil will affect your warranty coverage, or, what kind of documentation will be necessary to protect it .....

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barenekd

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 02:48:06 PM »
My dealer in the states let me do all my warranty work, even when it was a replacement part, like a fuel level sender. Certainly oil changes were OK. If there is a question, keep the receipt for the oil and filter. My Guzzi dealer even let me do my own 600 mile check.
Bare
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D the D

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2013, 03:00:44 PM »
In the US the Magnuson-Moss Act specifies that you don't have to go back to the dealer for maintenance in order to retain warranty rights nor can the manufacturer/dealer make you use their brand products.  They can only require specifications of oil, filters, etc.  It's an old fight that consumers often loose, but companies like Nissan have paid fines out the kazoo for trying to require branded filters, oil, and services be done at the dealer.
I have no idea what consumer protection laws exist outside the US.
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Craig McClure

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2013, 04:46:17 PM »
Having bought a Used 2010 G5 deluxe, that was off warantee, & living in a remote N.Georgia mountain town & miles from a dealer, It was my baby from the get go. The bike itself is a sound investment. Mine is very pretty & reliable, certainly superior to british & past enfield motorcycles. As a veteran british owner/rider/wrench I can say this with some authority.
  There were a few things about the bike that I or the P.O. changed & upgraded: Tire,Shocks,Handlebars, signals, Headlight Reflector- Xenon & LED Bulbs,Battery, Sidestand,Muffler, Cranckcase Breather.
  The only annoying things I've encountered were the first  DEKA AGM battery I purchased on-line was BAD, I Had to drive to a neighboring town for a free replacement.  The oil level SIGHT GLASS monitoring sytem could be better, It is difficult to get the correct level. I would much prefer a dipstick I could read before starting the engine. 
  None of these issues are deal breakers. This is the best (easiest to live with) 500cc single cylinder motorcycle, of the many I have ever owned.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

Sectorsteve

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 01:41:29 AM »
yeah the warranty thing is weird. In the owners manual it says that the warranty is covered after the first service - meaning you must take it to dealer the first service. After that you can do yourself. But i was talking to the importer here as i needed some simple questions answered and he got up me for doing the oil change myself saying "you'll void the warranty if you blow the engine" ive done 1000s of oil changes and never blown the engine. These assholes annoy me. Dont get me wrong, i love the bike alot. Best thing ever. Im a mechanics son and fixed all my own cars etc. Im not into being shafted by mechanics. I guess thats why the old man was broke cause he helped people too much, but sometimes you help people. Its not all about money is it? In this town it is . Im not a scab. If a mechanic helps me etc i always throw them some beers on a warm friday arvo - or give them some cash when they dont ask for it. Enfield mechanics in sydney = minimum spend $300, no questions answered etc. Its just "book it in" or "bring it in more regularly"
The last service in the shop - (where they always ask you if you want fries with that), put the wrong size tube in backwheel & left the back wheel unaligned. No faith in them now. it shits me that the mechanics are the dealers.
Im just grateful ive found this forum. You cant even join the aussie forum/or it dont exist - dunno...

Ducati Scotty

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 03:33:29 AM »
This is an international forum, all welcome.  Just happens to be hosted in the US. ;)  I really like that we get people from all over.

Scott

heloego

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 04:22:08 AM »
+1 DtheD! It surprises me the # of people here that aren't aware of the Magnuson-Moss Act, one of the few laws here actually in favor of the consumer. Just quoting it is usually enough to put a feisty dealer in his place.  :)
I recommend to those in any other countries to check into your consumer protection laws. If you don't already have something similar maybe it's time to get a grass roots effort started.
My dealer didn't waste any time letting me know that as long as all my own maintenance was documented, there would be no problem with the warranty.
Incidentally, the same applies to any Insurer who tries to make you use their "shop" or "parts". Assholes.

helo
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REpozer

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2013, 06:54:00 AM »
yeah the warranty thing is weird. In the owners manual it says that the warranty is covered after the first service - meaning you must take it to dealer the first service. After that you can do yourself. But i was talking to the importer here as i needed some simple questions answered and he got up me for doing the oil change myself saying "you'll void the warranty if you blow the engine" ive done 1000s of oil changes and never blown the engine. These assholes annoy me. Dont get me wrong, i love the bike alot. Best thing ever. Im a mechanics son and fixed all my own cars etc. Im not into being shafted by mechanics. I guess thats why the old man was broke cause he helped people too much, but sometimes you help people. Its not all about money is it? In this town it is . Im not a scab. If a mechanic helps me etc i always throw them some beers on a warm friday arvo - or give them some cash when they dont ask for it. Enfield mechanics in sydney = minimum spend $300, no questions answered etc. Its just "book it in" or "bring it in more regularly"
The last service in the shop - (where they always ask you if you want fries with that), put the wrong size tube in backwheel & left the back wheel unaligned. No faith in them now. it shits me that the mechanics are the dealers.
Im just grateful ive found this forum. You cant even join the aussie forum/or it dont exist - dunno...
Yeah Mate, everything cost in Oz, its the price for living in heaven.
I received my RE in a crate, 800 miles (1100 kms) from my dealer. Been doing all my own spanner twisting from day one.
This is a good forum, with tons of good info. Enjoy.
Welcome aboard Steve.
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wildbill

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2013, 08:09:44 AM »
plus you have other oz members not too far away ;D
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
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Boots

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2013, 03:34:00 AM »
Kevin Mahoney said: "I would say that the satisfaction of our customers has a 95% correlation to who the dealer is."

Amen! I'd like to state for the record that I've never been happier now that I have a good dealer to turn to... Fremont Honda/Kawasaki in Fremont, California! I've also noticed that the bum dealer I originally purchased from in Soquel is no longer selling RE.
Boots

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Sectorsteve

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 02:12:09 AM »
Yeah I wanna good dealer mechanic too. Most stuff I'll do, but engine work when needed , needs to go to someone experienced in engine work.
I rode 70000 km on px 200 Vespa 2 stroke in 2 years. The scooter mechanic sandy at scooter engineering was an invaluable asset. Bloody helpful and knowledgeable as. My bikes are used for work. Some days I'll ride 500clicks. Sandy would get me going again if I was stuck. I love the enfield heaps. Next trip is to Townsville inland route. Can't wait! Just did full service myself and she is running sweet. I really appreciate this forum a lot.thank you all.

Gypsyjon

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2013, 07:37:14 PM »
My 2010 G5 Deluxe is nothing like my old BSA Victor...that thing ran fine during the day, but as soon as I turned on the lights at night, I was pretty sure it was going to leave me stranded out in the dark...Lucas, God Bless them...

I lived out in the boon docks, so as soon as I left town from visiting my girlfriend, I would shut off the lights. When I saw a car coming towards me, I would turn the back on (usually....) then back off as soon as he passed.
I've gone back to my roots. British 1 lunger, stump puller.

ScooterBob

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2013, 11:02:46 AM »
Dealer training? What?  :o

Kevin Mahoney said: "I would say that the satisfaction of our customers has a 95% correlation to who the dealer is."

Amen! I'd like to state for the record that I've never been happier now that I have a good dealer to turn to... Fremont Honda/Kawasaki in Fremont, California! I've also noticed that the bum dealer I originally purchased from in Soquel is no longer selling RE.
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

Blairio

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2013, 04:17:32 PM »
Gypsyjon wrote "My 2010 G5 Deluxe is nothing like my old BSA Victor...that thing ran fine during the day, but as soon as I turned on the lights at night, I was pretty sure it was going to leave me stranded out in the dark...Lucas, God Bless them..."

It wasn't without reason that back in the day Lucas became known as 'The Prince Of Darkness'....
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Joel-in-dallas

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2013, 04:40:03 PM »
Are the UCE's better........
The UCE was introduced in 2009. Since its introduction Royal Enfield has been seeing enormous growth in the number of motorcycles they sell.

About 10 years ago they were selling something like 20,000 to 30,000 motorcycles a year. Last year they sold 150,000 motorcycles. They are scaling up to sell 250,000 a year. Over 90% of their motorcycles are sold in India. Indian customers will wait 6 months to a year to get an RE.

The quality is far better, but it is hard to judge by this forum. Most folks only post about problems. They don't post when the motorcycle is running great.

Gypsyjon

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
Gypsyjon wrote "My 2010 G5 Deluxe is nothing like my old BSA Victor...that thing ran fine during the day, but as soon as I turned on the lights at night, I was pretty sure it was going to leave me stranded out in the dark...Lucas, God Bless them..."

It wasn't without reason that back in the day Lucas became known as 'The Prince Of Darkness'....

+1
I've gone back to my roots. British 1 lunger, stump puller.

hocko

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2013, 11:20:42 PM »
. You cant even join the aussie forum/or it dont exist - dunno...
SectorSteve Hi, Aussie Enfields is the Aussie forum, not a bad site, not much for the UCE bikes however, more the older stuff, but well worth a look. This site is the best I've found for the newer models.

Cheers  :)

Sectorsteve

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2013, 12:30:31 AM »
I never owned an enfield before this, but i did hire an old one in india - which i loved. This was my reason for getting one. My bike has been flawless. runs the same every day. Did have a battery terminal issue(just snapped off) and the side stand switch caused problems at the start but once those 2 things were fixed ive had no problems since. Only issue is getting shafted up the date by RE Australia. Luckily my bikes good cause i certainly dont need those (what warranty) guys. Im just itching to go for another few thousand km ride again...

Thanks Hocko. I tried to join about 6 months ago but was refused for some reason. Some guy with a new Enfield left a note on my bike end last year too to join some people that go on trips etc. They do hotels. Unless its making camp im not keen, so i solo it.
 

wildbill

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2013, 08:38:54 AM »
i can now answer this question myself....yes they are better and improving year by year model by model
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery - upgrades and work in progress

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AussieDave

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2013, 04:39:46 PM »
 you should know , you madman!  #3 bullets in as many years -must be some kind of record! What marriage are you up to?
"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.

wildbill

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2013, 11:30:00 PM »
only the 2nd.  :P
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
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2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan/cheery - upgrades and work in progress

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gremlin

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2013, 02:30:09 PM »
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


heloego

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2013, 11:26:44 PM »
Well, I guess "third times a charm" with me. The first wife didn't even know what a bike was, the second was so worried I'd get hurt I didn't ride for 25+ years, but the future missus thinks it's fantastic that I have a hobby.  :)
Rather than have a homeless person for the holidays, I decided to stick with ham.

Craig McClure

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2013, 08:45:16 PM »
Observance:  Those with Motorcycles Before Marriage, get to keep them. Those who try to obtain Motorcycles After Marriage, have Difficulties.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

Guzzohm

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2013, 01:26:03 AM »
After reading the posts on this thread, I have to ask:  In what specific areas have the UCE bikes improved since 2010? 

I have heard about wobbly frames on the highway, fraying wires, fuel indicator, and other irritations which detract from owner experience.
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wildbill

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2013, 02:04:40 AM »
i think the biggest improvement is in the wiring harness. it's a lot neater these days. got back 30 or so pages and read how it once was
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Land Surveyor

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2013, 02:19:01 AM »
Hello. Been away a while but now I want to sell my Japanese bike and get something simpler.  As to the reliability issue, I'll ask it this way: Would you say the new model is on par with a contemporary Japanese bike?  I mean, this is an air-cooled single here.  They're practically elemental.

Glad to see the faithful are still here.  :D

gremlin

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2013, 04:05:21 AM »
YES
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AussieDave

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2013, 05:48:57 AM »
+1. and a whole lot more fun.!
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WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2013, 07:35:28 AM »
"...on par with a contemporary Japanese bike?"

Can't speak for the latest bikes - although I'm highly dubious.
In 2010 they weren't even close. The very idea is a joke.
There is a 2010 Enfield and a 2004 Kawasaki side by side in my garage - opposite ends of the build quality spectrum.
I'm not saying the Enfield isn't a great looking bike and huge fun to ride - but let's not get delusional about how it's put together...  :-\
Luckily it's a bike which can be (needs to be) much improved by owner participation.
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Tigujan

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2013, 09:14:04 AM »
I bought my bike in 2012 and up to now I drove 6.000 km. I only have had a problem with the fuel indicator. This has been replaced under warranty. I agree, the quality of everything on this bike can be improved but it will not increase the fun factor. The quality of the paint, the quality of the chrome it is all a little bit poor. The engine is very noisy but it is a nice bike to own.

wildbill

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2013, 09:26:58 AM »
when i started this thread i too was wondering but i really gotta say that there are improvement year by year. just little things but they all add up. i have purchased the following brand new bikes in the past 18 months.
2011 C5 - did 3,000 kl bad handler
2012 C5 did 10,000 kl very good handler
2013 B5 bit over a week old - 700 kl
2014 Cafe Racer - when available ?
i think you get what you pay for. nothing more -nothing less but they are fun to ride but a long way behind a jap bike.


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JVS

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2013, 09:54:15 AM »
Personally, I would like to have the best of each end. I have the Enfield which I love dearly, but would like to have a nice sports bike..not limited to Japanese make though. Pick whatever you want from your garage depending on the mood.  :D At the end of the day it is just....whatever makes you happy  ;D


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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2013, 12:39:18 PM »
I'll be most curious to see where this thread goes once the bikes from the new fancy modern factory begin to show up.  No real design changes imminent, I know, but I wonder if we can expect to see any considerable build quality improvements?

WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2013, 02:10:56 PM »
"...build quality improvements.."

Only if they've got new modern staff to go in the new modern factory. If they're just going to move in the same bunch of slackers from the old place, I doubt things will change very much..
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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2013, 07:17:40 PM »
Is that the problem, as you see it, WillW?  Slacker employees?  I thought that Royal Enfield factory jobs were considered good, desirable jobs, in which case they could dump the slackers for more motivated people.

Unless, of course, there's a union involved... 

What caught my attention in many of the "new factory" blurbs was lots more automation, and lots more women being hired.

gremlin

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2013, 08:38:41 PM »
..........Unless, of course, there's a union involved...  .........

Since you issued a challenge  ;) I'll chime in here and say Management is responsible for the design of the product AND the systems that make the product.

Blaming the union for poor product is like a Doctor blaming his patients for dying during surgery.  It is nonsense.   ::)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 08:41:27 PM by gremlin »
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1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


Royalista

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2013, 09:14:03 PM »
Well put.  ;D

Bullets require input from their owners. Always did. Nowadays far less than what it used to be. My dirt bike requires much more attention.

As I come to think of it: is there a japanese bike that you can ride up the Himalaya, stock as it came? Any other bike than the bullet would require a ton of mods and extra parts.
When I'm up for groceries I know I can just zoom past the convenience store and ride on. See, that notion can put a smile on anyone's face.  ;D


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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2013, 09:24:28 PM »
Since you issued a challenge  ;) I'll chime in here and say Management is responsible for the design of the product AND the systems that make the product.

Blaming the union for poor product is like a Doctor blaming his patients for dying during surgery.  It is nonsense.   ::)

Gosh, Gremlin, a challenge?  I've gotta be more careful - I swear on my mother's grave that I wasn't intending to start something here!  :-[

I never said a union was responsible for a poor product - I didn't say anything about any product, poor or otherwise.  I did suggest (intended tongue-in-cheek, as indicated by the dude poking the hornets nest) that a union could protect a slacker's employment despite an employer wanting to replace the slacker.  Which, incidentally, completely and accurately describes the situation at my current job.  Wait a minute, I hope I'm not one of the slackers!!!

I hadn't heard that slackers were a problem in the RE workplace.  (Only that all the junk we clean out of our oil screens at the first oil change is the result of intentional sabotage by "disgruntled raghead workers" who are still angry at us Americans since 9-11.  I swear, this is what I was told by the a$$hole bigot scumbag dealer who fu¢₭€d up my 300 mile service...  >:( )  (Wow, see how I did that with only international currency symbols?  :) )

mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2013, 09:27:04 PM »
As I come to think of it: is there a japanese bike that you can ride up the Himalaya, stock as it came? Any other bike than the bullet would require a ton of mods and extra parts.

Maybe, but Joel-in-dallas would come back without his heat shield...

WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2013, 09:32:43 PM »
Yes, I think sloppy attitude is the heart of the problem. Nuts & bolts not tightened, bits of rag left in the engine casings, sloppy workmanship generally and equally sloppy quality control.
Darn right a regular indoor job with regular wages is desirable. But motivation to get such a job isn't the same as motivation to do the best job possible when you're there.
Of course there are exceptions (watch the guy who paints the lines on the fuel tanks) but there does seem to be a lack of proper skills, and attitude, on the RE production line - an attitude of "that'll do" rather than "that's been done properly" certainly prevailed when my bike was cobbled together.
But yeah - let's hope the new factory inspires a new working ethos. 
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Royalista

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2013, 10:44:46 PM »
Maybe, but Joel-in-dallas would come back without his heat shield...

Aye,
It would make for a great title though: "How I lost my heat shield on the way to Khardung La"  ;D


We tend to forget that these bikes (before Eicher) had to be as cheap as possible (there goes quality control) and every hamlet has an Enfield wizard cheap as chips. What's your problem? Our problem is we hardly have any wizard and our mechanics ask an arm and a leg just for looking.

The good news is the efforts by the new management to tend for western expectations and the automation of the new plant.
Hm, those expectations were created by the japanese. Remember how bikes used to be?

So, back to the original question. Are the UCE's any better? You bet they are!
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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2013, 01:46:54 AM »
Aye,
It would make for a great title though: "How I lost my heat shield on the way to Khardung La"  ;D

;D  ;D

Craig McClure

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2013, 03:16:22 AM »
Speaking of Trade Unions, Slackers, & MOTORCYCLES OF BRITISH ANCESTRY:  Has any one read the many articles about the Demise of The British Motorcycle Industry(Triumph, BSA, Norton Villars)? Ironically this made the East Indian Enfields a reality. In the UK, Labor Unions, & Non Riding-profit oriented (consumer Durables) management, all had a hand in Greasing the Skids. Quite a Story, I can't imagine the Indians being worse employees than many of the dregs of the British Motorcycle Industry.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2013, 08:04:56 AM »
"I can't imagine the Indians being worse employees than many of the dregs of the British Motorcycle Industry."

Quite so, and the same applies to the demise of the British car industry - to name but one ....
None of this is about nationality. I didn't say Royal Enfield quality is (was) shoddy because they were built by Indians. I said it was shoddy because they were built by underskilled operatives with poor attitude to the job.
I remember a time when a Japanese vehicle, whether two or four wheeled, would dissolve if you left it out in the rain for too long. But they knew what they and we wanted, got their arses into gear, and look at em now. Hopefully the management at RE have the insight & intelligence to smell the same coffee.
Certainly they're better than they used to be. Are they on a par with Japanese bikes? Not yet; still not even close.
RE is only ever going to be a niche bike; why not do it right. It IS a quirk - it doesn't need quirks (faults) built in before it even leaves the factory. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 09:41:29 AM by WillW »
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barenekd

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2013, 05:04:21 PM »
I think the dregs of the British motorcycle were not the workers as much as management. The management teams were all Peter Principle graduates. They didn't have a clue as to what they were supposed to be manufacturing, they only looked at the financials. They couldn't seem to understand that to build a proper product, you need proper tooling. The poor guy on the floor was probably doing the best he could with the junk he had to work with, particularly when he had just taken over a job from a guy who'd been using the same machine for 50 years and knew how to shim, block, jury rig and manipulate it to build a good part. HTe new guy didn't know all this stuff was going on and tried to make the same old machine with no "inside" knowledge of what it took to build a good part. Here again, management isn't supplying the tools to build a good part, and hadn't in 30 years! I'm sure that the Indians were using plenty of the original tooling from England when the iron barrel production ceased! Management is what makes companies fail, not the poor grunt whose job it is to make a decent product! Bad workers, even in a union, can be disposed of. Managemant just has to work a bit harder at it.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2013, 05:21:37 PM »
+1.  You can be the best guy out there but can't build a straight frame if the jigs are off.  You may know it's crooked but without the tools and support you can't do much.  As for machine turnings, shop towels, and excess silicone sealant being found during first oil changes, that's just flat out sloppy workmanship.

I suspect they are going to have some problems with the new factory starting up, that happens whenever you bring in a bunch of new employees.  Quality dips for a while until everyone gets into the groove and then it comes back up if you handle things right.  I think they will continue to improve.  The UCE was a big step past where they were in design and quality.  As for things rattling loose, this is a long stroke air cooled single with no counterbalancer.  They could add some more LocTite and lockwasher but things are going to rattle loose unless you tighten them, especially during break-in.  This should be sited as routine maintenance in the manual.  If something does fall off and you're had your bike in for scheduled maintenance, it should be replaced free of charge under warranty.

Scott

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2013, 01:11:33 PM »
I think the dregs of the British motorcycle were not the workers as much as management. The management teams were all Peter Principle graduates. They didn't have a clue as to what they were supposed to be manufacturing, they only looked at the financials. They couldn't seem to understand that to build a proper product, you need proper tooling. The poor guy on the floor was probably doing the best he could with the junk he had to work with, particularly when he had just taken over a job from a guy who'd been using the same machine for 50 years and knew how to shim, block, jury rig and manipulate it to build a good part. HTe new guy didn't know all this stuff was going on and tried to make the same old machine with no "inside" knowledge of what it took to build a good part. Here again, management isn't supplying the tools to build a good part, and hadn't in 30 years! I'm sure that the Indians were using plenty of the original tooling from England when the iron barrel production ceased! Management is what makes companies fail, not the poor grunt whose job it is to make a decent product! Bad workers, even in a union, can be disposed of. Managemant just has to work a bit harder at it.
Bare


  PLUS ONE !!

  Just to add, the Japanese did it with better and more innovative management.... newer and better tooling.... and WITH a unionized work force.    Happy, content, secure workers produce a good product.  With a six month waiting list for a bike in India? I wonder just how much of a strain on the worker's it is? And how are their working conditions......
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2013, 04:46:01 PM »
Just to note, I believe the RE is one of the best bikes in India.  There are many others but most are not exported.  The Stella scooters are made there.  My mechanic preps many of them.  He now knows the things to check and fix before he sends them out.  Time well spent, this way he doesn't have to diagnose and fix these issues on a wet, dirty scooter that just got towed in.

I would say as a whole Indian quality control is not quite up to Japanese and Euro levels, but it's getting better all the time.

Scott