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Author Topic: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???  (Read 3952 times)

mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2013, 12:39:18 PM »
I'll be most curious to see where this thread goes once the bikes from the new fancy modern factory begin to show up.  No real design changes imminent, I know, but I wonder if we can expect to see any considerable build quality improvements?

WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2013, 02:10:56 PM »
"...build quality improvements.."

Only if they've got new modern staff to go in the new modern factory. If they're just going to move in the same bunch of slackers from the old place, I doubt things will change very much..
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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2013, 07:17:40 PM »
Is that the problem, as you see it, WillW?  Slacker employees?  I thought that Royal Enfield factory jobs were considered good, desirable jobs, in which case they could dump the slackers for more motivated people.

Unless, of course, there's a union involved... 

What caught my attention in many of the "new factory" blurbs was lots more automation, and lots more women being hired.

gremlin

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2013, 08:38:41 PM »
..........Unless, of course, there's a union involved...  .........

Since you issued a challenge  ;) I'll chime in here and say Management is responsible for the design of the product AND the systems that make the product.

Blaming the union for poor product is like a Doctor blaming his patients for dying during surgery.  It is nonsense.   ::)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 08:41:27 PM by gremlin »
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Royalista

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2013, 09:14:03 PM »
Well put.  ;D

Bullets require input from their owners. Always did. Nowadays far less than what it used to be. My dirt bike requires much more attention.

As I come to think of it: is there a japanese bike that you can ride up the Himalaya, stock as it came? Any other bike than the bullet would require a ton of mods and extra parts.
When I'm up for groceries I know I can just zoom past the convenience store and ride on. See, that notion can put a smile on anyone's face.  ;D


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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2013, 09:24:28 PM »
Since you issued a challenge  ;) I'll chime in here and say Management is responsible for the design of the product AND the systems that make the product.

Blaming the union for poor product is like a Doctor blaming his patients for dying during surgery.  It is nonsense.   ::)

Gosh, Gremlin, a challenge?  I've gotta be more careful - I swear on my mother's grave that I wasn't intending to start something here!  :-[

I never said a union was responsible for a poor product - I didn't say anything about any product, poor or otherwise.  I did suggest (intended tongue-in-cheek, as indicated by the dude poking the hornets nest) that a union could protect a slacker's employment despite an employer wanting to replace the slacker.  Which, incidentally, completely and accurately describes the situation at my current job.  Wait a minute, I hope I'm not one of the slackers!!!

I hadn't heard that slackers were a problem in the RE workplace.  (Only that all the junk we clean out of our oil screens at the first oil change is the result of intentional sabotage by "disgruntled raghead workers" who are still angry at us Americans since 9-11.  I swear, this is what I was told by the a$$hole bigot scumbag dealer who fu¢₭€d up my 300 mile service...  >:( )  (Wow, see how I did that with only international currency symbols?  :) )

mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2013, 09:27:04 PM »
As I come to think of it: is there a japanese bike that you can ride up the Himalaya, stock as it came? Any other bike than the bullet would require a ton of mods and extra parts.

Maybe, but Joel-in-dallas would come back without his heat shield...

WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2013, 09:32:43 PM »
Yes, I think sloppy attitude is the heart of the problem. Nuts & bolts not tightened, bits of rag left in the engine casings, sloppy workmanship generally and equally sloppy quality control.
Darn right a regular indoor job with regular wages is desirable. But motivation to get such a job isn't the same as motivation to do the best job possible when you're there.
Of course there are exceptions (watch the guy who paints the lines on the fuel tanks) but there does seem to be a lack of proper skills, and attitude, on the RE production line - an attitude of "that'll do" rather than "that's been done properly" certainly prevailed when my bike was cobbled together.
But yeah - let's hope the new factory inspires a new working ethos. 
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Royalista

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2013, 10:44:46 PM »
Maybe, but Joel-in-dallas would come back without his heat shield...

Aye,
It would make for a great title though: "How I lost my heat shield on the way to Khardung La"  ;D


We tend to forget that these bikes (before Eicher) had to be as cheap as possible (there goes quality control) and every hamlet has an Enfield wizard cheap as chips. What's your problem? Our problem is we hardly have any wizard and our mechanics ask an arm and a leg just for looking.

The good news is the efforts by the new management to tend for western expectations and the automation of the new plant.
Hm, those expectations were created by the japanese. Remember how bikes used to be?

So, back to the original question. Are the UCE's any better? You bet they are!
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mattsz

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2013, 01:46:54 AM »
Aye,
It would make for a great title though: "How I lost my heat shield on the way to Khardung La"  ;D

;D  ;D

Craig McClure

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2013, 03:16:22 AM »
Speaking of Trade Unions, Slackers, & MOTORCYCLES OF BRITISH ANCESTRY:  Has any one read the many articles about the Demise of The British Motorcycle Industry(Triumph, BSA, Norton Villars)? Ironically this made the East Indian Enfields a reality. In the UK, Labor Unions, & Non Riding-profit oriented (consumer Durables) management, all had a hand in Greasing the Skids. Quite a Story, I can't imagine the Indians being worse employees than many of the dregs of the British Motorcycle Industry.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

WillW

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2013, 08:04:56 AM »
"I can't imagine the Indians being worse employees than many of the dregs of the British Motorcycle Industry."

Quite so, and the same applies to the demise of the British car industry - to name but one ....
None of this is about nationality. I didn't say Royal Enfield quality is (was) shoddy because they were built by Indians. I said it was shoddy because they were built by underskilled operatives with poor attitude to the job.
I remember a time when a Japanese vehicle, whether two or four wheeled, would dissolve if you left it out in the rain for too long. But they knew what they and we wanted, got their arses into gear, and look at em now. Hopefully the management at RE have the insight & intelligence to smell the same coffee.
Certainly they're better than they used to be. Are they on a par with Japanese bikes? Not yet; still not even close.
RE is only ever going to be a niche bike; why not do it right. It IS a quirk - it doesn't need quirks (faults) built in before it even leaves the factory. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 09:41:29 AM by WillW »
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barenekd

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2013, 05:04:21 PM »
I think the dregs of the British motorcycle were not the workers as much as management. The management teams were all Peter Principle graduates. They didn't have a clue as to what they were supposed to be manufacturing, they only looked at the financials. They couldn't seem to understand that to build a proper product, you need proper tooling. The poor guy on the floor was probably doing the best he could with the junk he had to work with, particularly when he had just taken over a job from a guy who'd been using the same machine for 50 years and knew how to shim, block, jury rig and manipulate it to build a good part. HTe new guy didn't know all this stuff was going on and tried to make the same old machine with no "inside" knowledge of what it took to build a good part. Here again, management isn't supplying the tools to build a good part, and hadn't in 30 years! I'm sure that the Indians were using plenty of the original tooling from England when the iron barrel production ceased! Management is what makes companies fail, not the poor grunt whose job it is to make a decent product! Bad workers, even in a union, can be disposed of. Managemant just has to work a bit harder at it.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2013, 05:21:37 PM »
+1.  You can be the best guy out there but can't build a straight frame if the jigs are off.  You may know it's crooked but without the tools and support you can't do much.  As for machine turnings, shop towels, and excess silicone sealant being found during first oil changes, that's just flat out sloppy workmanship.

I suspect they are going to have some problems with the new factory starting up, that happens whenever you bring in a bunch of new employees.  Quality dips for a while until everyone gets into the groove and then it comes back up if you handle things right.  I think they will continue to improve.  The UCE was a big step past where they were in design and quality.  As for things rattling loose, this is a long stroke air cooled single with no counterbalancer.  They could add some more LocTite and lockwasher but things are going to rattle loose unless you tighten them, especially during break-in.  This should be sited as routine maintenance in the manual.  If something does fall off and you're had your bike in for scheduled maintenance, it should be replaced free of charge under warranty.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: UCE'S ARE THE NEWER MODELS ANY BETTER???
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2013, 01:11:33 PM »
I think the dregs of the British motorcycle were not the workers as much as management. The management teams were all Peter Principle graduates. They didn't have a clue as to what they were supposed to be manufacturing, they only looked at the financials. They couldn't seem to understand that to build a proper product, you need proper tooling. The poor guy on the floor was probably doing the best he could with the junk he had to work with, particularly when he had just taken over a job from a guy who'd been using the same machine for 50 years and knew how to shim, block, jury rig and manipulate it to build a good part. HTe new guy didn't know all this stuff was going on and tried to make the same old machine with no "inside" knowledge of what it took to build a good part. Here again, management isn't supplying the tools to build a good part, and hadn't in 30 years! I'm sure that the Indians were using plenty of the original tooling from England when the iron barrel production ceased! Management is what makes companies fail, not the poor grunt whose job it is to make a decent product! Bad workers, even in a union, can be disposed of. Managemant just has to work a bit harder at it.
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  PLUS ONE !!

  Just to add, the Japanese did it with better and more innovative management.... newer and better tooling.... and WITH a unionized work force.    Happy, content, secure workers produce a good product.  With a six month waiting list for a bike in India? I wonder just how much of a strain on the worker's it is? And how are their working conditions......
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