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Author Topic: external oil filter  (Read 3760 times)

mike704

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external oil filter
« on: June 10, 2008, 11:19:51 PM »
I am considering a cross-country trip this fall and was considering adding an external oil filter, an oil cooler and an oil tank for extra capacity and cooling. has anyone else made these mods? any advice?
thanks
mike
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 01:37:12 AM by mike704 »
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geoffbaker

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 02:32:17 PM »
Do a search on "cooler" or "oil cooler" on this forum. I remember someone had a pic of a setup where they had tapped into the oil feed to the head.

Peter

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cyrusb

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 12:59:45 AM »
It looks a little ungainly, but it cant be bad. It certainly can benefit from the extra capacity and cooling.

oldsalt

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 04:48:09 AM »
I have some reservations about how much is gained by putting an oil filter in the oil line that supplies the rocker boxes.

Re. Filtering:  Seems to me that there is not much volume going up there.  It would have to be under some really high pressure for that tiny line to carry enough to make it worth while to filter.  Plus, again just my opinion, the stock oil filter is a good one.  Just because it doesn't look like the one that comes on a Chevrolet or a Harley doesn't mean a thing.

Regarding the hope that there will be some additional useful cooling:   The major obsticle to getting useful additional oil cooling useing a "tank" is that the hottest oil is the oil entering the tank [or filter housing].  Being the hottest it is also the thinnest.  There is always a stream of hot oil that goes straight to the outlet.  Even fins on the outside of the tank are of little help because the problem is caused by a thick layer of cooler, thicker oil is insulating the skin of the tank.  If it is not possible to tap into the main supply from the "return" side of the oil pump, and an proper oil cooler [not just another tank to get additional volume] is put in line there will not be a useful gain.  The drysump systems used on motorcycles should not be altered unless a person likes to experiment and is willing to accept unplanned consequences.  Possibly serious consequences.   
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Peter

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »
I have some reservations about how much is gained by putting an oil filter in the oil line that supplies the rocker boxes.

A filter spliced into the return line (= rocker feed line) will filter all circulating oil.

Peter

t120rbullet

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 01:39:28 PM »
I have some reservations about how much is gained by putting an oil filter in the oil line that supplies the rocker boxes.
A filter spliced into the return line (= rocker feed line) will filter all circulating oil.
Peter

The return pump is the larger of the 2 pumps. If one was to put an external oil filter that would be the best (and easiest) place to put it. The only thing is after a filter change the top end would be dry until the filter filled up unless a provision was made to fill it with oil before starting the motor.
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Peter

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 04:50:18 PM »
... Plus, again just my opinion, the stock oil filter is a good one.  Just because it doesn't look like the one that comes on a Chevrolet or a Harley doesn't mean a thing.

Opinions aside, the stock oil filter is some kind of gauze and, on a good day, acts as a screen to keep larger shavings out of the big end.
The stock iron engine does not effectively filter its oil.

Peter

geoffbaker

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 07:00:16 PM »
I'm probably going to add an oil cooler to my diesel. But that's a different story.

If I was going to do it to the Enfield engine, I would not use the existing pumps, you are far too likely to cause serious problems (by overloading the pump, or destroying the pump if the cooler lines become blocked, ever).

Instead, I would tap in somewhere in the casing and use a 12v electric scavenge pump to move the oil through the cooler. That way there is no extra load on any mechanical system. If the pump fails, nothing is damaged. You can also include a thermal or pressure valve and a bypass in case of line clogging.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 07:03:01 PM by geoffbaker »

mike704

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 10:31:01 PM »
Peter,
Have you upgraded to the high-volume oil pump, or does the stock pump push the oil through the fliter with enough pressure?
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Peter

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2008, 03:19:54 AM »
No, I don't have the higher volume pumps and I have the stock big end bearing.
The spin-on oil filter I'm using is not going to create any appreciable additional back pressure for the standard scavenge pump flow.
How do I know? Well, I don't. I guess it would start smoking and throwing oil out of he breather if it can't keep the sump dry.

I actually don't worry at all about the back pressure. I'm more concerned about the additional connections which could fail and dump my oil. No failure yet after 2000 miles.   

Peter

oldsalt

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2008, 06:19:08 AM »
... Plus, again just my opinion, the stock oil filter is a good one.  Just because it doesn't look like the one that comes on a Chevrolet or a Harley doesn't mean a thing.

Opinions aside, the stock oil filter is some kind of gauze and, on a good day, acts as a screen to keep larger shavings out of the big end.
The stock iron engine does not effectively filter its oil.

Peter

Irving, the designer of the Vincent engine, in his book Motorcycle Engineering had a different slant on these matters than is the common wisdom.  The big difference between the filter that is used on the RE and one for a Chevrolet is the type of service it must do.  The British engines, almost to a man, all have 'anti-friction' bearings at the critical points;  Big end of the rod and crank bearings and etc..  Most had no filter at all.  By anti friction it was ment rollers and balls.  Babbit bearings can't digest hard particals worth a damned.  Balls and rollers of various types don't care about the fine stuf that kills precision fitted inserts.  My opinon:  The stock filter is just fine.  Regarding fooling around with different filters in a system that has proven its self to work well?  Be carful.  You will be experimenting.  Again, this is my opinion, but I came by it the hard way.   
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Bankerdanny

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2008, 02:12:00 PM »
In all the posts I have seen here I don't recall anybody talking about an engine failure precipitated by particles in the oil.

Given the oil change interval recommended by many people here (including Vince) of 1,000 miles, it hardly seems like the oil has time to get very dirty or that particles are around long enough to do much damage.

However, I think that an oil cooler would make sense for a long trip plus an upgrade to the high flow oil pumps.
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Peter

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2008, 08:09:09 PM »
... The British engines, almost to a man, all have 'anti-friction' bearings at the critical points;  Big end of the rod and crank bearings and etc..  Most had no filter at all.  By anti friction it was ment rollers and balls.  Babbit bearings can't digest hard particals worth a damned.  Balls and rollers of various types don't care about the fine stuf that kills precision fitted inserts. ...

FYI, the stock iron Bullet big end is a fully floating bushing, no balls or rollers there. This type of bearing does not like particles.
The standard filter will be able to keep the rats and mice out of that bearing but not more.
One of the benefits of an inline oil filter in the return line is that when the big end goes south, the particles are caught before they are dispersed throughout the engine causing accelerated wear everywhere. You can ride quite a while without knowing that the big end is going bad and spilling swarf. The filter contains the damage in the crankcase.

Peter
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 08:24:15 PM by Peter »

Peter

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Re: external oil filter
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2008, 08:36:06 PM »
In all the posts I have seen here I don't recall anybody talking about an engine failure precipitated by particles in the oil. ...


Unfortunately, failure of the Bullet floating bushing big end bearing is not unheard of and there are some aftermarket solutions which are sold by our host.
The stock big end bearing is the main concern when it comes to proper oil filtering. The second major concern is valve train (rockers, cams etc.) wear which is addressed by filtering the returning contaminated crankcase oil on its way to the rocker boxes.

Peter