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Author Topic: Spark plug health  (Read 2049 times)

High On Octane

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2013, 06:56:20 PM »
does not unscrew.  They don't all do that.  They used to, not anymore.  I've been through the spark plug boxes on the shelf at the parts store and its not there...

I bet you're having the same problem I ran into.  Our (mine, yours, ERCs ect) vintage bikes are very old and a bit rare and there really isn't a listing for the correct plug anywhere except for in the owners manual.  Which until the joys of the internet weren't readily available until recent years I'm guessing.  My point is, when you're trying to get a plug to work on something this old but have nothing to go off of, you literally will try anything that works.  Which for our old vintage bikes, happens to be a tractor plug that does NOT have the threaded nipple. 

I'm willing to bet that being our bikes are the same era, they take the same plug.  Try NGK part # B6HS.  I called NGK personally to sort this out and this is the plug the crosses over from the vintage Champion plug listed in my repair manual.

Scottie
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Arizoni

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2013, 10:45:12 PM »
The carbon on the plug shown in the original post is due to the engine running rich.

The leak at the exhaust pipe up by the O2 sensor (if it has one) probably could be felt as a blast of hot air where the pipe meets the cylinder head.

Another thing to check out since the bike is used is the condition of the paper air filter.

If it is oil saturated or plugged with mud or dirt that would also make the engine run rich and foul the sparkplug like that.
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

jammydodger

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2013, 09:32:14 AM »
I've checked the filter recently and tapped it out. It was perfectly dry with little to no particles.

Yep, the bike has an 02 sensor. I'll see if I can determine if there's a leak,  I remember seeing somewhere that you can spray some sort of cleaning product around that join between the pipe and engine to make it easier to spot a leak- is this something that you guys have heard of?

the guy I bought the bike off 'advised' me to use the choke and hold it down whist the engine warmed up...maybe that contributed to the carbon?

The thing now is that any changes I make now I won't be able to test fully on the open road until I've passed my tests and riding around the car park probably won't help I guess?

rvcycleguy

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2013, 09:50:05 AM »
I bet you're having the same problem I ran into.  Our (mine, yours, ERCs ect) vintage bikes are very old and a bit rare and there really isn't a listing for the correct plug anywhere except for in the owners manual.  Which until the joys of the internet weren't readily available until recent years I'm guessing.  My point is, when you're trying to get a plug to work on something this old but have nothing to go off of, you literally will try anything that works.  Which for our old vintage bikes, happens to be a tractor plug that does NOT have the threaded nipple. 

I'm willing to bet that being our bikes are the same era, they take the same plug.  Try NGK part # B6HS.  I called NGK personally to sort this out and this is the plug the crosses over from the vintage Champion plug listed in my repair manual.

Scottie

Thanks Scottie.  I appreciate the advice.  I have a PDF of the old manual and the Champion plug back in the day was L10.  As you say, I tried and became frustrated locating the correct plug.  Did not want to put the wrong one in.  Had a coil problem that got sorted out and did not want to mess up with the plug.  It's been a learning curve for me and one that has been rewarding so far.  This forum makes it a little easier.  Thanks.
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JVS

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2013, 07:24:50 AM »
I've checked the filter recently and tapped it out. It was perfectly dry with little to no particles.

Yep, the bike has an 02 sensor. I'll see if I can determine if there's a leak,  I remember seeing somewhere that you can spray some sort of cleaning product around that join between the pipe and engine to make it easier to spot a leak- is this something that you guys have heard of?

the guy I bought the bike off 'advised' me to use the choke and hold it down whist the engine warmed up...maybe that contributed to the carbon?

The bike if turned off before its optimum operating temperature can lead to the carbon. Regardless, I am pretty sure that these Bosch plugs are not great for UCEs and end up getting sooted anyway. Something to do with the gap and the two-side ground/electrode.

Try the BPR6ES. Pretty confident that you will have very little carbon build up on the electrode of the NGK. You'll still have some on the outer ring of the plug, but not as bad as the Bosch. I've been using this NGK plug and it shows signs of perfect mixture.
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mattsz

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 01:25:20 PM »
the guy I bought the bike off 'advised' me to use the choke and hold it down whist the engine warmed up...maybe that contributed to the carbon?

You may know this already, but as I understand it, the "choke", which is called a "manual bi-starter" on our bikes (and I still haven't heard why), isn't a choke at all.  It doesn't change the mixture, it simply opens the throttle by a small amount.  Is this right, guys?

Arizoni

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 06:53:11 PM »
That's the way I understand it mattsz.
It just opens a small bypass that allows more air thru the throttle body.
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

barenekd

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 08:03:58 PM »
I have some BPR6ESs with both removable and nonremovable caps The boxes with the removable caps has a number 7131 under the part number. I can't locate the other plugs with the fixed cap, but I'm sure that number would be different. The price on those boxes is $1.39. I would guess they're about 20 years old. I must've gotten them for the GB500.
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jammydodger

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2013, 09:26:05 PM »
Thanks guys, I've ordered a BPR6ES and will keep an eye on how things proceed.

With any luck I won't need to adjust anything just yet.

J

rvcycleguy

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2013, 10:04:21 PM »
Put a new NGK in and the bike starts on first kick and runs well.  Got some spunk now and really smooth.  Thanks for the advice.
1956 Bullet 500 (G2) Custom tank, Silencer Muffler, Powder Coated Chassis
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Arizoni

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2013, 10:32:40 PM »
RE could do all new owners a favor by installing a quality spark plug in their new production bikes.

I think their engineers have some sort of fascination with those Bosch twin electrode plugs. 
Sure, they look neat and the idea that if one electrode is good, two is better  must prevail there but such is not always the case.
Simple single electrode spark plugs are hard to beat.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

High On Octane

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2013, 03:55:38 PM »
Let me tell you guys something about Bosch spark plugs.....  They make better butt plugs than they do spark plugs because they're crap.  The ONLY vehicle I know off that Bosch plugs work in is Dodge/Chrysler, a match mate in automotive failed-design heaven.  You couldn't pay me enough money to use Bosch spark plugs in anything I own.

Scottie
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gremlin

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 06:08:19 PM »
Let me tell you guys something about Bosch spark plugs.....  They make better butt plugs ............

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High On Octane

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2013, 07:17:20 PM »
Too Much Information.

Hold On!  I didn't say that I'd recommend it for use as a butt plug, I'm just saying that the pure sh!t performance of Bosch plugs, maybe they'd be better off....  Oh never mind.    :-X

Scottie
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Royalista

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Re: Spark plug health
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2013, 08:54:51 PM »
you guys are a weird bunch!  ;D  ;D


Seriously I'm baffled with this issue from the start. Why oh why do so many have problems with the Bosch plug?

My electra still runs on the initial Bosch plug. Bike fires up first kick, always. Rain, shine, cold, hot, whatever. An audience does not scare me off, nor starts a mild panic: prep and kick, there she blows.
The mileage is good also. I get an average of 27 kpl for mostly short runs, and a definitely not economic style.

Every 3000 km plug is cleaned.
Currently at 21000 km. I'm considering to detach it to reserve on the next service while it still has life in it. Replacement will be an original Bosch, an obvious choice given its state.

You may subtract 1000 km from that 21000 km. A year ago, reading all the bad reports I tried a BPR6ES. It made no impression. There was no significant improvement. To be honest, it hinted not to be as long living, which after all is logical and not a big issue considering the price is nearly a quart of the Bosch plug.

So, do I have the odd one out, the one that slipped through Bosch's quality control? The one that got away?
If not, there must be a detectable cause. Could it be the ethanol?  :-\
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