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Author Topic: cutting out going to first gear  (Read 557 times)

easy-v

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cutting out going to first gear
« on: June 17, 2013, 11:35:23 PM »
2003 bullet 500es

I was on a brief ride and the bike was cutting out repeatedly unless i was revving. I luckily made it home and had to keep revving at a couple red lights coming back to keep from cutting out.

Not sure if this was related, but still very necessary, I did an oil and filter change. It was really low. I also tightened the clamps on coupler from carb to cylinder. Took it out again and it seemed much better. However, it did happen once again. I'm at neutral, but as soon as I go in first, it cuts out. Any ideas? Thanks..

jedaks

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 11:55:15 PM »
If your engine oil was so low, how is the oil in your primary case? It's important, being a wet clutch system. You need about 400ml in there.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 01:43:05 AM by jedaks »

Arizoni

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 12:15:25 AM »
easy-v
About the only thing you changed that might cause the problem is when you tightened the carb clamps.
If the coupler was old, that might have cracked it so it is now letting in some extra air.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

baird4444

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 12:47:36 AM »
Battery good?   
    I've seen a SHOT battery cutout and make ya think
there is a major fuel or air problem....
          -  Mike
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
        -Cody Baird
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 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
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Guaire

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 03:11:22 AM »
Try checking your ground cable from your battery.

easy-v

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 01:29:24 PM »
Thanks..I think you all may be right about the battery. I'll replace. I haven't changed it in 15 months and did have to tender charge it twice, after the winter. I forgot to disconnect it beforehand.

The ES does work, though when I use it (usually use kickstart), I only get 1 chance or maybe 2. Otherwise I get the buzz sound.

Vince

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 04:05:52 PM »
     You mention 1st gear, but I assume you mean low RPM. It sound like a carb/electric/compression issue. Fist adjust the valves. If they are tight or loose far enough, you will not get proper vacuum to get proper carburetor flow. Check for water in the gas, or water or oil in the air filter, plugged crankcase vent, dirty or mis-adjusted points, out of time, air leaks. Lots of stuff to check, all of it minor maintenance, but necessary for proper running. Try charging the battery before popping $40 for a new one.
     Primary oil- ES models should have a full liter (1000cc) in the primary to minimize starter clutch issues. The starter buzzing may be crankshaft position. A quirk of the early ES models was that the starter would not work if the point were open. Pull the compression release and move the kick starter about 1/2 its arc. The starter will now PROBABLY work.

easy-v

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 11:14:00 PM »
Thanks. Okay, a couple things. I'm waiting on the battery still, as local stores don't have mine.

So, in meantime,  first thing was checking the tappets (never did this before). At tdc, the left one can be turned with my thumb, no up and down play. The right one cannot be turned at all, and no up and down play. Is that normal? It was either one or the other. At another point, I could turn the one on the right, but not left.

Second, when kickstarting on center stand, i let run for a couple minutes. Then, I even went through gears 1 and 2 and rev a tad. No problems. As soon as I decide to take it for a spin, I push off the center stand, put in first and cuts out. Then I noticed just a bit of white smoke coming from air filter box. I'm not sure if means anything, but took the filter out of the box and only see a bit of darkness on one side at the corner of the filter. Pic attached. everywhere else clean. Is this a problem?

Still have to look at the points, air leaks, top off some oil in primary, and replace battery.

Arizoni

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 04:56:30 AM »
When the piston has reached Top Dead Center on the compression stroke (when ignition would be happening), both pushrods should turn freely but show no tendency to move up or down.  This happens only at the top of the compression stroke.
At the TDC at the end of the exhaust stroke and the start of the intake stroke both valves should be open so both pushrods should be under load.

If the piston has passed top dead center and is on the firing stroke and is approaching bottom dead center,  the exhaust valve pushrod (right) will become tight as the cam begins to lift the exhaust valve.
Make certain the piston was at the top of the compression stroke (not the exhaust stroke) and check the condition of the push rods again.  They both should turn easily.

I don't know if you are aware of it but the clutches  wet plates tends to stick together when the engine is shut off.
If you have started your engine with the bike on the center stand and then pushed it off while it is in neutral there is a good chance the clutch plates are still stuck together.

If this happens and you pull in the clutch to put the bike into gear the clutch plates will still be holding onto each other so when the transmission goes into gear it can kill the idling engine.
If this happens it isn't uncommon for some of the vaporized fuel mixture to come out of the air filter.  I think that's what your seeing as "white smoke".

The solution to the sticking clutch plate problem is before trying to start the engine pull in the clutch lever.  Then, use the kick starter to try to kick the engine over while still holding the clutch in.
You will probably feel some resistance and suddenly it will vanish and the kick starter lever will move freely.  If this happens, you have broken the clutch plates loose from one another so when you get the engine started and put it into gear the clutch will slip as it should.
Now, release the clutch lever and start the engine and see if the stalling problem is better.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

easy-v

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 05:13:54 AM »
arizoni, thanks for dropping the knowledge. The weather finally let me get back out there and check these things. There was enough oil in the primary case and topped it off a bit too. Also, the tappets did seem fine at the proper tdc, no up and down play.

However, i realized the engine isn't necessarily cutting out when going into first gear. It's happening the second I pull the throttle even lightly if in neutral. It doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes I rev just fine. I could let it sit there idle for a very long time too. If it does cut out, i can start it up easily with electric start or ks. Still getting the white smoke coming out of the air filter after it cuts out.
I guess vince might be right about checking basically everything(?)

« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 05:53:46 PM by easy-v »

ace.cafe

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Re: cutting out going to first gear
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 11:21:54 AM »
Trying to decipher the descriptions.
It seems to me that there is some clutch drag when you are shifting to first, which loads up the engine a little, and it stalls from some tuning issues that have not been attended to, and which might have been accentuated by some issue with the manifold hose leaking.
The issue with the pushrods needs to be looked at by someone who knows how to adjust them properly, to determine if there is any problem, or at least to get them adjusted right.

I'd venture to say that this bike is in need of a "service/tune-up", which is what we used to call a trip to the mechanic that knows what he's doing.
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