HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

britts 09 bullet


in
Members Rides

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 01, 2014, 02:33:05 PM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: Primary Cover Repair  (Read 1207 times)

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3782
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Primary Cover Repair
« on: June 23, 2013, 04:09:12 PM »
I finally tracked down a welder that was willing to fix my primary cover out of his garage and not charge me a fortune.  After contacting several different welding and chopper shops through out the week and being told that they couldn't get to it for at least a couple of weeks, and the only shop that had time wanted to charge $90/hour ( F*@K that sh!t ), I decided to make some phone calls friends.  I got referred to a guy that's an oil rigger and welds at home too.  I gave him a call and he was happy to do it for me.  For $30 and a 6 pack of beer!

I met up at his place yesterday afternoon and quickly learned that it wasn't going to be a 30 minute job like I thought.  But he took his time, did the job right, and I am really happy with the results.  I don't think it's going to be breaking again.  He and his wife even grilled up some burgers and brats and I got lunch out of the deal too!    :D  What is even cooler is that it turns out we grew up 5 miles away from each other in Wisconsin!  We had a good time, drank some beers, and most importantly, got my primary cover fixed right.    :)

 

Don Working His Magic


The Results




Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 07:08:54 PM »
You got the right guy to weld it they break there all the time. You lucked out and have the later cover with the rubber seals also. It seems people tighten the center bolt to much to try and stop leaks.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

bullethead63

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
  • Karma: 0
  • "Run what ya brung..." Paul Saint Clair
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 11:19:32 PM »
I wouldn't even grind and polish the welds...just leave it for strength...nobody will see them when they're installed,anyway...nice work!
1959 Royal Enfield/Indian Chief 700~(RED)~1999 Bullet Deluxe 500 KS~(BLUE)~2000  Bullet Classic 500 KS~(WHITE)~2002 Bullet Classic 500 ES~(GREEN)~Ride-Wrench-Repeat~your results may vary~void where prohibited by law~batteries not included~some restrictions may apply~subject to change without notice~

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3782
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 03:56:09 PM »
I wouldn't even grind and polish the welds...just leave it for strength...nobody will see them when they're installed,anyway...nice work!

I actually told Don exactly that before he even started welding on it!  I'm a very good steel welder myself (you have to be when you're building classic hot rods) but I don't have the experience or equipment to weld aluminum, that's why I called around until I found Don.

I DO HAVE ONE ISSUE THOUGH.....
  After pre-fitting my alternator adapter bracket and alternator, I noticed that the inner cover has seemed to have warped a bit, definitely to the point where it's going to leak a good amount, but no clearance issues.

Here's the questions:
Is the O ring seal that goes around the primary cover actually supposed to fit INSIDE of the grove on the inner cover?  Or is the groove used for alignment and the gasket is supposed to sit on TOP of the groove?

I know a lot of guys grease the primary chain as opposed to running some kind of oil.  Is the clutch safe operating in a dry atmosphere (i.e. will the clutch fail if operated dry)?  I remember after making a primary chain adjustment, I forgot to refill the primary with oil before I went on a ride.  The clutch worked fine and the bike wasn't leaking nearly as much oil as it normally does.

Where does a fellow pick up some 00 grease?

Can I just run a bead of black silicone gasket maker around the outer cover before assembly to fill the small gaps between the metal covers and gasket?

Rather than using 00 grease, can I use chain oil and oil it on a regular basis through the inspection hole?

What I would like to do is, if it is in fact safe to operate the clutch without oil in the primary, I'd like to run a bead of silicone around the cover before assembly and just oil the primary chain with chain oil on a regular basis through the inspection hole.  But being that I still don't know a fair amount about these bikes, I want to make sure that I'm not screwing anything up.  Thanks.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 04:46:11 PM »
What clutches are used with the Primary Belt Mod?
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 07:51:09 PM »
The o-ring goes into the groove. You could be OK running the clutch dry I think. Spraying the primary chain with some chain lube would work. Don't use oo grease in there.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3782
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 09:04:02 PM »
Maybe give the clutch plates a coat 20w50 during reassembly?

What clutches are used with the Primary Belt Mod?

That's what I was thinking D the D.  I know belt drive primarys operate on a dry clutch but I'm not sure if the clutch is made up of a different material.  I also remember seeing a pic of a custom RE that actually had the outer primary cover artistically cut with the clutch basket exposed.  He obviously wasn't running any oil in there.  And even when you think about it, if the chain originally was addressed with grease, then there wasn't a whole lot of oil on the clutch in 1st place.  I'm thinking I'm probably OK.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

barenekd

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5169
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 10:31:03 PM »
The oring goes in the groove.
As for lubing the inside the primary case with grease or whatever, probably not a great idea. the clutch needs lube too for the bushings and bearings. The plates might even need a bit of oil, too. The teeth on the clutch plates need lubing.  And the chain itself definitely needs to be lubed.
Most people who run open chains are racing the bikes and can lubricate the chain and stuff every time they come onto the pits. I have seen some people running open primaries on the street, but frankly, they're idiots! The primary is running a lot faster than the final drive chain and never gets to stop as long as the engine is running. It gets a lot hotter than the final drive chain.
You can probably seal the primary case up with silicone or other gasket making material.
Or you might be able to get it refaced at a machine shop. Or do it yourself on a hard flat table with sandpaper.
Bare
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3782
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 12:17:37 AM »
Silicone it is!

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8168
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2013, 02:25:07 PM »
On the clutch there is a large diameter row of ball bearings that are between the clutch hub and the basket. If you leave them dry, they will wear out.
It happens to the racing dry clutches.
You need to lube those bearings fairly regularly. Probably every time that you lubricate the primary chain if you are running without oil in the primary.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

bullethead63

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
  • Karma: 0
  • "Run what ya brung..." Paul Saint Clair
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2013, 03:26:04 PM »
So...ATF type F,or 40 wt in the primary case?
1959 Royal Enfield/Indian Chief 700~(RED)~1999 Bullet Deluxe 500 KS~(BLUE)~2000  Bullet Classic 500 KS~(WHITE)~2002 Bullet Classic 500 ES~(GREEN)~Ride-Wrench-Repeat~your results may vary~void where prohibited by law~batteries not included~some restrictions may apply~subject to change without notice~

D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 03:52:41 PM »
And I'll open a can of worms opened!  Depends on your personal preference and preferences run from specific brands to witches brew.  People who's opinions I respect use different stuff than I do.  Are they OEM clutch plates or aftermarket?  Some companies don't recommend ATF, EBC actually stated it would void your warranty.  Some aftermarket Primary Chain manufacturers don't recommend ATF.  You'll also hear that this brand ATF is bad cause it foams (every type has anti-foam in it, not just Fix Often Repair Daily brand) or the additives this or that.  If a type foams on you it's too thin (Type "F" is the highest viscosity car type) and can't handle motorcycle clutch application, period.  Type "F" is what people recommend, but it's getting harder to find.  And ponder that Ford ATF wasn't common nor recommended when this bike was designed.
And a hue and cry will come up that I've always done it this way or that and what my granddaddy did.  I have used oil and ATF in different bikes and prefer the feel of oil over ATF.  I use the same oil I run in the engine, 20w-50 motorcycle oil (which Kevin Mahoney recommended in an old post).   I don't worry about what somebody's granddaddy did, he's not riding my bike. ;D
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

baird4444

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2098
  • Karma: 0
  • 2003 ES 500... 38,416 miles, I'm done
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2013, 01:57:44 PM »
I ran ATF in the primary of my es 2003 almost from day 1. I ran almost a whole quart to give the extra lube on the sprag clutch assembly...  let the bike go with over 38,000 miles with no primary issues....    the best reason I can give is if you have a NEW oil spot on the the shed floor,
the color can point you to the leak!!
        - Mike
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
        -Cody Baird
'My dear you are ugly,
 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
 - Winston Churchill

GreenMachine

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3008
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2013, 03:25:08 PM »
 the best reason I can give is if you have a NEW oil spot on the the shed floor,
the color can point you to the leak!!

+1
Oh Magoo you done it again

D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Cover Repair
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 12:26:53 AM »
See?  Everyone likes what they like.  8) You just have to try things and decide what YOU like.
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH