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Author Topic: Newbie needs your help please  (Read 588 times)

Samir72

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Newbie needs your help please
« on: June 30, 2013, 05:19:27 PM »
Reposting this since I put in the wrong forum originally:


Thanks Arizoni,

Well, I bought a 2009 Bullet Chrome with about 1500 miles on it about a year ago in Florida from a Dealer. The bike was immaculate, garaged and had a few modifications:

right-shift gear box
battery relocated
no turn signals
air filter is not stock, it' in a round chrome container that is partially open, maybe 4 inches in diameter, not sure of the exact name/type

So, I should tell you that this the first bike I ever owned/rode. I was in India for 2 months and want to go back to ride in the Himalayas, and since most the rentals there are right-shift Enfields I figured I'll just get on and learn here instead of India.

Soon after I rode it off the lot I started having problems. The bike would suffocate sort off. It would stall out at traffic lights etc. I went back and Chuck, the Dealer, said my exhaust/catalyc converter failed. He put another exhaust on and it seemed to ride well for a short while. The exhaust it came, had a "thick" part that was nearly twice as long as the one now. I felt as if the bike had a little more power with the new exhaust, but not for long. It ran super rich and I changed the plug every 50 miles or so. Chuck started re-jetting the carb and playing with the airflow screw. I honestly feel that the bike never really ran right. It's still running rich even at 1.5 turns counterclockwise from all the way in on the air flow screw.

The engine is pinging a lot and consistently, sometimes louder than other times. I read this is normal but my gut tells me that this is excessive.

I lost power at the top end and can't really get over 65mph, and it takes a while to climb from 60 to 65, that wasn't the case before. I don't need to go any faster than 65 really but it is a difference from how it once behaved.

I  have close to 6000 miles on the bike now. The oil has been changed and the clutch cable replaced and about 20 plugs. The guy that changed the oil said he also tuned it but it felt no different. He actually overfilled the oil and it started blowing out I believe the big, original air filter box if I remember correctly. It was a mess. He re routed some hose to the other side and now it spills out every once in a while, seemingly when I ride a little more aggressive.

Hopefully you're still with me  There's more minor things but I'll address those once I have this bike running properly again.

Yesterday I watched a video on tuning, setting the points and the timing with a special tool from nfieldgear, I ordered the tool today. What do I need to be able to turn the engine with the bike off? A hoist, is there a particular piece of equipment that is made for this? Of course there is, I guess I'm asking what it's called.

My father is a mechanic and I worked with him for 2 years in my teens, so I am handy with tools but I really don't know the first thing about bikes. I am determined to learn, especially since I can't find a RE dealer in Baton Rouge, and I'll be here for a year at least.

So, any and all help is appreciated in regards to any and all issues above.

This was a little long winded but I figured I'll give it a shot.

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum as well, I appreciate it

Samir
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 06:10:04 PM by Samir72 »

Arizoni

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 10:24:20 PM »
Samir72
You mentioned, "The engine is pinging a lot and consistently, sometimes louder than other times. I read this is normal but my gut tells me that this is excessive."

IMO, NO engine should ping even a little.  Usually this is caused by incorrect ignition timing or poor fuel.  If it is still pinging you should be using fuel with a higher octane rating.  If you are using the highest octane fuel you can get and it is still pinging it is possibly due to incorrect ignition timing or a buildup of carbon in the combustion chamber.

You mentioned that the spark plug was developing a lot of carbon on it so I will guess that the rest of the combustion chamber also has quite a lot of buildup.

Probably the easiest way to reduce this would be to buy some Sea-Foam and put it in the fuel.  Then ride the bike for some long distances at 60 mph as often as you can.

I mentioned ignition timing as another cause of pinging.
I don't own a AVL but I believe the ignition is totally controled by a Engine Control Unit based on the signals it gets from the alternator on the crankshaft.  (If I'm wrong I'm sure some of the AVL owners will correct me.)
If I'm right, there isn't much you can do to change the ignition timing because it's all built into the alternator and the ECU.

Speaking of the ECU, these AVL's were sold with one that was housed inside a black plastic box.  This black ECU had some defects in its programing so Royal Enfield re-engineered it and put it into a green plastic box.
These green ECU's were supposed to be installed on all of the AVL powered bikes at no cost but from what I've seen there are a lot of them out there still running with the old black unit.

Try to find this box so you will know if you have the old black one or the new green one.
I think it is probably located under the seat but it might be in one of the sidecovers.
It is not a little tiny 1" X 1" X 1" box.  It is quite a bit larger.

If your bike still has the black ECU call Nfieldgear at 1-800-358-0938.  Be prepared to give them the motorcycles serial number that is on your bikes registration papers and on the registration tag on the front downtube.
If they haven't already sent the free replacement to the owner of that bike they should be able to send you the corrected unit so you can remove the old ECU and plug the improved one in.

By now you've probably figured out that if the engine is controlled by the alternator and the ECU you don't have any ignition points to adjust.
When you call them, verify what I just said and if it is true perhaps they can find your order for the piston locating tool and cancel your order.  (Then again, maybe they can tell you another use for it, or who knows?  Maybe someday you will buy one of the older Iron Barrel RE's that used ignition points?)

You asked about turning the engine ?
You could use the kick starter but for making small adjustements in the piston location the easiest way to do it is to put the transmission into high gear (4th or 5th depending on your transmission).
Then, with the bike on its centerstand and the rear wheel off of the ground, give the rear wheel a slight turn in a "forward" direction.  It will stop rotating freely when the drive chains slack is removed.
Then back off the wheel just a bit and forcefully "bump" it in the forward direction.
Done correctly, several of these little "bumps" will rotate the engine in small increments allowing you to "sneak up" on exactly where you want the piston to be.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 10:28:11 PM by Arizoni »
Jim
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Bill Harris

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 10:50:46 PM »
Samir,

Because the cycle was over filled with oil, and this can cause a breather line to become choked with all that oil, the first thing I would do is clean all the breather tubing and catch-can.  Next, turn around the breather tube from the oil tank to the catch-can with the 90 degree bend coming off the catch-can.  With the bike upright and on level ground, rote the tubing over the frame at the back of the gear box and insure there is no low spots for oil to settle in and plug the line.  The breather tubing from the oil tank to the catch-can requires a continuous down hill slope from the catch-can to the oil tank with no up hills and low spots for oil to collect and clog the line.  Battery relocation may require you to cut some of this tubing off to insure a continuous down hill slope, only cut off if routing alone will not ensure a continuous down hill slope.  If A breather line is clogged the engine will not run good at all.  Do this first and see if it helps.

Royal Enfield people are good people   

Cheers,
Bill             

Samir72

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 11:00:29 PM »
Arizoni, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Your response is very helpful an I'll get right on the Seafoam and the ECU issue.

I am and always have used the highest octane fuel.

I do not have a center stand, but since I can't adjust the timing the way I envisioned it doesn't really matter.

Thanks again!

Samir

Samir72

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 11:02:23 PM »
Thank you Bill, I'll do that right away, makes a lot of sense what you said. To clean out the tubes, can I use carb cleaner or is that to harsh?

Bill Harris

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 02:53:04 AM »
Samir,

Just use some solvent or diesel fuel or gasoline.  Carburetor cleaner may be a little harsh.

Check the oil level after the engine is up to operating temperature, wait about a minute or two after shutting down, so oil can drain back down into the tank and then check the oil level.  One should use not more than about 1 3/4 quarts after oil filter change.

Cheers,
Bill     

Samir72

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2013, 02:59:39 AM »
Thanks Bill,

I just messaged you before I saw your reply.
In case there is too much oil in the engine I will let some out.

Thank you,

Samir

Samir72

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 03:06:12 AM »
Arizoni,

I didn't have the correct wrench to take the seat off, the nuts are not metric, strange right? They are btw 13mm and 14mm. I'll get the correct wrench.

I did see a light green box under the seat though. At any rate I will call the number you gave me tomorrow and see what's what. Are those the same people as CWS?

Thank you,

Samir

Arizoni

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2013, 04:11:58 AM »
The phone number I gave is for Nfieldgear. 
They are a part of CWS as is this forum.  The whole shebang is owned by Kevin Mahoney, our gracious host. :)

Over the years the Royal Enfields have changed from the British motorcycle threads and Whitworth threads over to Metric threads.  I think that by 2009 most of the bolts are probably metric but one never knows until they try to screw a metric threaded nut or bolt into them.
Speaking of Metric threaded bolts and nuts, the Europeans have their sizes for the hex heads and the Japanese, for reasons I don't know, came up with their different sizes for the same metric thread.
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

D the D

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2013, 05:09:23 AM »
... the nuts are not metric, strange right? They are btw 13mm and 14mm. I'll get the correct wrench.
Samir
Welcome to the Bullet club.  They remind me of early '80s GM cars - metric drive trains in SAE chassis.  Well, partly metric drivetrains.  Ok, there's no rhyme or reason, you just get used to it or replace the troublesome fasteners. ::)
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1 Thump

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 03:56:30 PM »
Samir,
From your pictures you have an AVL with a stock carb, K&N air filter and a shorty exhaust. Do us a favor: 1. Remove your carb 2. Remove the jets form the carb 3. Get a magnifying glass and read the numbers on the jets 4. Note which groove is the needle resting in. 5. Report the numbers here

Use the search unction on the forum and look for posts by 'tooseevee'. He was able to finally nail down the jet settings on his AVL. Note that jetting varies by temperature and altitude. There is a method to the madness called carb tuning. The first goal is to get it in the ballpark, and fine tune from there....You are not in the ball park. It is possible that your are too rich at one fuel supply setting and too lean on the other. 

Added: If your engine really is pinging, you should NOT be running that bike. Pinging will kill your engine.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 04:00:48 PM by 1 Thump »
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TejK

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 11:02:36 AM »
Hi Samir,
Open up the Carb and check the slide - My bike use to do the same with the stock carb with the K&N and a free exhaust. The slide maybe sticking inside the carb barrel and resulting in the restricted performance where you open the throttle wide but the slide stays stuck a part opening. Also check the rubber diaphragm which may have a leak resulting is only part lifting of the slide

Secondly, on the CV carbs opening the screw out richens the mixture and tightening it leans it.

If the jets are 110-125 main and pilot 15-17.5 the jets are in the OK ballpark. CV carbs are restrictive and the ratio of the Jet size to Carb size is different than the flat slide/round slide carbs. Hope this is of some helps !!


Samir72

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 12:17:30 PM »
Hi 1 Thump,

The jets were drilled last so the numbers won't help us much I think.
I may just order the jet set and start over.

Thank you,

Samir

Samir72

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 12:18:26 PM »
Hi TejK,

Thank you for that info, yes that's helpful.

Samir

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Re: Newbie needs your help please
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 02:50:09 PM »
If your jets were drilled then chances are you are running way to rich.  Jets are cheap and should be replaced accordingly.  Drilling a jet out really gives you no direction or cure because you have no idea what you are changing the size to.  Jet sizing is so small between sizes that when you drill it out, your drill bit is probably equivalent to about 5-10 actual jet sizes.  Find out out what size is listed on your current jet and try to get 2 or 3 different sizes in that size area and start going from there.

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