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Author Topic: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition  (Read 1214 times)

High On Octane

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Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« on: July 14, 2013, 07:11:07 PM »
Here's an interesting situation I'd like your guys' opinions on.....

Brand new electrical inside and out.  New custom harness, 120 watt alternator, rotor, Sparx, lighting and 2 month old battery which holds a charge great.  NOT hooked up to the battery the Sparx is putting out 14.45V under light RPMs.  When hooked up to the battery without a load under light RPMs I'm reading 13.25V at the terminals, still good.  Lights on MINUS the headlight I'm dropping to about 12.80V under light RPMs, not great but acceptable.  But once I hook up the headlight (Sylvania XV6024 7" sealed beam), the voltage drops to 12.33V under moderate RPMs with the low beam on.  NOT ACCEPTABLE!  Also I did the math and I shouldn't have more than an 80 watt draw total.

I'm very good with electrical, but this is eluding me.  What am I missing here?   ???

Scottie

Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 09:31:30 PM »
Regulator N.G.?  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ERC

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 09:36:21 PM »
Believe it or not with the diode type regulators you should use resistor plugs. If not the regulator may get messed up..    ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 10:39:05 PM »
Believe it or not with the diode type regulators you should use resistor plugs. If not the regulator may get messed up..    ERC

I'm running NGK 5K ohm resister caps, as per recommended by Sparx.  Like I said, everything is brand new.  Is it possible that the old school sealed beam headlight is just drawing too much power?  I'm going to be converting the headlight to a new 7" lenses that accepts a H4 bulb.  Do you think halogens have less draw?

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 12:43:41 AM »
I don't think the sealed beams are drawing to much. I've got them in my bikes and they're ok. Did you have the sparx in there when you burned up the alternator?  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 02:46:23 AM »
Yes I did.  I do have a second Sparx that I originally had installed when the original alternator crapped out.  I replaced that one because I thought not having resistor caps for about 2 hours of riding burnt it up, but it turned out to be the alternater.  Should I swap them and retest?

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 01:00:06 PM »
I would, there also may be an ohms test you can do on them to check them. Email Sparx to see if they have a test.  They may both be bad.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 02:58:54 PM »
I've been searching for an hour and can't find anything on Sparx besides sales and installations.  I can't even find a homepage for Sparx so I can't email them.  I've found a bunch of forums with people talking about them, but no ideas on an "ohms test".  Does anyone know how ohms correlate with watts so I have a rough idea of what to look for?

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer


DanB

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 05:50:52 PM »
Hi Scottie,

Dont know if you found this... but heres a sparx toubleshooting 'pic'. 

http://www.tri-corengland.com/acatalog/Ignition_fault_finding.html

The coil resistance(s) needs to be above 2.4 ohms; 3 to 7 ohms for single or twin coils seems to be the 'target'.  The unit cant carry more than 5 amps according to the above. 

In terms of watts, resistance relationships, heres a quick couple of formulas:

Volts = Current (I)*Resistance(R)
Power (watts or VA) = I*V = I2*R = V2/R

This works in a resistive circuit, and doesnt take into account the 'magnetics' from the alternator and the coils.  If I recall correctly, you have a 120 w alternator (I think), which should yield about 9.4A @12.8 V.... If the sparx requires no more than 5 A; and the headlight is ~ 50W, requiring about 4A that totals very close to 9A.  Additionally, any 'loops of wires' or poor electrical connections can add resistance or magnetic coupling, which can further tax the electrical system. 

If i was in your place i'd: 1) Make sure electrical connections are clean and tight; 2) remove any loops or coils of extra wire involved with the Sparx; 3) check coil resistance (wired in series?) is greater than 2.4 ohms; 4) change out regulator.

Just my thinking anyway and not sure if it helps.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

High On Octane

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 06:19:39 PM »
I don't have ANY extra coils of wiring anywhere on the bike.  In fact I only have 6 or 7 wires total on the entire bike.  After reading this the only conclusion that I can come up with is that I have a weak connection in the original 4 way bullet connectors.  Any thoughts on that?

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 06:25:45 PM »
Could be a loose crimp or oxides/crud on the contacts, I've had both happen.  Check the crimps for looseness and make sure to clean the contacts with electrical parts cleaner or TV tuner cleaner/lube spray.  Also look to see there isn't hidden corrosion at the crimp & wire smashed part.  I've had that happen too.
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2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
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High On Octane

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 07:58:28 PM »
I'll check the couplers.  I used waterproof terminals on all the wire crimps and I check every connection for a secure snug fit before connecting to the harness.

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 09:23:28 PM »
I guess the internal capacitor in the Sparx must have gotten fried when the my Lucas alternator did it's magical smoke trick.  Put the original Sparx back on the bike and I have 14.25V at the battery at idle no lights and 14.45V at revs.  ALL the lights on about 12.85V at idle, 13.25 under light RPMs and 14.40 with higher revs.  It looks like I'm good to go.  Thanks for your inputs!

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 11:12:07 PM »
Great!  Too cool a bike to just sit in the garage.
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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 02:14:31 PM »
Glad it worked out Scottie. I always use the Podtronics regulator. To me they seem a little better. Appear to not be overly affected when something shorts out. I'm sure others have there own opinion. ERC   
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 02:23:20 PM »
Glad it worked out Scottie. I always use the Podtronics regulator. To me they seem a little better. Appear to not be overly affected when something shorts out. I'm sure others have there own opinion. ERC   

If this one gives me any grief, I don't think I'll be getting a 3rd.  Roger at The Bonneville Shop was trying to talk me into the Tymtanium regulator when I went back for a 2nd Sparx.  Maybe I'll give that a try if I run into any trouble, but I shouldn't, everything is brand new in that department.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-BSA-NORTON-NEW-TYMPANIUM-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-BEST-PRICE-PN-TBS-4034-/271238948783?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3f2719e7af

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

High On Octane

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2013, 03:38:04 PM »
This damn bike!!!  Uggghhh!   >:(   I went out for a ride last night and the son-of-bitch electrical system isn't charging again and I barely made it home with the lights turned off.  Which completely sucked.  I have a feeling that these Sparx rectifiers are junk, this is the 2nd one that failed on me.  I think I may try out the Tympanium one or that Podtronics one.  Any feedback on which one is more reliable/better for a 12V + ground system?

Scottie
Scottie J
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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2013, 06:51:48 PM »
I've got Podtronics  on all of mine. Haven't had a problem yet.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2013, 04:50:22 AM »
I went out and started testing everything this morning.  The Sparx appeared to be testing good, but I'm not 100% sure.  Started to test the leads on the alternator and nothing.  Did a continuity test between the leads and nothing.  Opened up the primary and found the alternator completely cooked.  I guess I must not have aligned it as good as I thought I did when I put it back together when I was playing with the clutch a little while back.  I also found the primary chain was loose so I adjusted that and then gave the clutch plates a good spray down with brake cleaner because it was slipping again.  Left the alternator out and put it back together for now so I can at least put around town if I want until I can get another alternator and new clutch set.

Then I got a hair up my ass trying to find my 13mm ratchet wrench and ended up cleaning my entire garage.  It looks good now, but I never did find my wrench.    ???    Tho I did find a bag with a bud of MMJ cleaning of my table.  LOL     ;D





Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

ROVERMAN

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2013, 01:46:09 PM »
Didn't sew the wrench up inside the patient one hopes! ;D ;D ;D.
Roverman.

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Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2013, 02:52:24 PM »
ScottieJ:  To bad it burnt up on ya...Notice in your pic its definitely fried at the cable entry and some cracks though it where it must had been offcenter just enough...You would think that the 5 hole setup would suffice to keep the spacing adequate ( Is the rotor bent or misaligned) ..I know that the fellows recommend using a plastic soda bottle or something similar  as a big plastic feller gauge when setting up the alt/rotor alignment...GM
Oh Magoo you done it again