HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

First oil change 200 miles G5


in
Members Rides

44 Guests, 3 Users
The Old Coot, Dazzler, mattsz
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 20, 2014, 10:00:54 AM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition  (Read 992 times)

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« on: July 14, 2013, 07:11:07 PM »
Here's an interesting situation I'd like your guys' opinions on.....

Brand new electrical inside and out.  New custom harness, 120 watt alternator, rotor, Sparx, lighting and 2 month old battery which holds a charge great.  NOT hooked up to the battery the Sparx is putting out 14.45V under light RPMs.  When hooked up to the battery without a load under light RPMs I'm reading 13.25V at the terminals, still good.  Lights on MINUS the headlight I'm dropping to about 12.80V under light RPMs, not great but acceptable.  But once I hook up the headlight (Sylvania XV6024 7" sealed beam), the voltage drops to 12.33V under moderate RPMs with the low beam on.  NOT ACCEPTABLE!  Also I did the math and I shouldn't have more than an 80 watt draw total.

I'm very good with electrical, but this is eluding me.  What am I missing here?   ???

Scottie

Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 09:31:30 PM »
Regulator N.G.?  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 09:36:21 PM »
Believe it or not with the diode type regulators you should use resistor plugs. If not the regulator may get messed up..    ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 10:39:05 PM »
Believe it or not with the diode type regulators you should use resistor plugs. If not the regulator may get messed up..    ERC

I'm running NGK 5K ohm resister caps, as per recommended by Sparx.  Like I said, everything is brand new.  Is it possible that the old school sealed beam headlight is just drawing too much power?  I'm going to be converting the headlight to a new 7" lenses that accepts a H4 bulb.  Do you think halogens have less draw?

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 12:43:41 AM »
I don't think the sealed beams are drawing to much. I've got them in my bikes and they're ok. Did you have the sparx in there when you burned up the alternator?  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 02:46:23 AM »
Yes I did.  I do have a second Sparx that I originally had installed when the original alternator crapped out.  I replaced that one because I thought not having resistor caps for about 2 hours of riding burnt it up, but it turned out to be the alternater.  Should I swap them and retest?

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 01:00:06 PM »
I would, there also may be an ohms test you can do on them to check them. Email Sparx to see if they have a test.  They may both be bad.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 02:58:54 PM »
I've been searching for an hour and can't find anything on Sparx besides sales and installations.  I can't even find a homepage for Sparx so I can't email them.  I've found a bunch of forums with people talking about them, but no ideas on an "ohms test".  Does anyone know how ohms correlate with watts so I have a rough idea of what to look for?

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads


DanB

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 05:50:52 PM »
Hi Scottie,

Dont know if you found this... but heres a sparx toubleshooting 'pic'. 

http://www.tri-corengland.com/acatalog/Ignition_fault_finding.html

The coil resistance(s) needs to be above 2.4 ohms; 3 to 7 ohms for single or twin coils seems to be the 'target'.  The unit cant carry more than 5 amps according to the above. 

In terms of watts, resistance relationships, heres a quick couple of formulas:

Volts = Current (I)*Resistance(R)
Power (watts or VA) = I*V = I2*R = V2/R

This works in a resistive circuit, and doesnt take into account the 'magnetics' from the alternator and the coils.  If I recall correctly, you have a 120 w alternator (I think), which should yield about 9.4A @12.8 V.... If the sparx requires no more than 5 A; and the headlight is ~ 50W, requiring about 4A that totals very close to 9A.  Additionally, any 'loops of wires' or poor electrical connections can add resistance or magnetic coupling, which can further tax the electrical system. 

If i was in your place i'd: 1) Make sure electrical connections are clean and tight; 2) remove any loops or coils of extra wire involved with the Sparx; 3) check coil resistance (wired in series?) is greater than 2.4 ohms; 4) change out regulator.

Just my thinking anyway and not sure if it helps.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 06:19:39 PM »
I don't have ANY extra coils of wiring anywhere on the bike.  In fact I only have 6 or 7 wires total on the entire bike.  After reading this the only conclusion that I can come up with is that I have a weak connection in the original 4 way bullet connectors.  Any thoughts on that?

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 06:25:45 PM »
Could be a loose crimp or oxides/crud on the contacts, I've had both happen.  Check the crimps for looseness and make sure to clean the contacts with electrical parts cleaner or TV tuner cleaner/lube spray.  Also look to see there isn't hidden corrosion at the crimp & wire smashed part.  I've had that happen too.
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 07:58:28 PM »
I'll check the couplers.  I used waterproof terminals on all the wire crimps and I check every connection for a secure snug fit before connecting to the harness.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3895
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 09:23:28 PM »
I guess the internal capacitor in the Sparx must have gotten fried when the my Lucas alternator did it's magical smoke trick.  Put the original Sparx back on the bike and I have 14.25V at the battery at idle no lights and 14.45V at revs.  ALL the lights on about 12.85V at idle, 13.25 under light RPMs and 14.40 with higher revs.  It looks like I'm good to go.  Thanks for your inputs!

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance
Enfield Twin Full Race Heads

D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Wierd Weak Electrical Condition
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 11:12:07 PM »
Great!  Too cool a bike to just sit in the garage.
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH