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Author Topic: Return Oil Pump Replacement  (Read 1731 times)

D the D

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2013, 03:08:52 AM »
Good Luck!
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ace.cafe

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2013, 12:20:46 PM »
I never had the pumps out, I just checked by pulling the cover off of the return side.  You can hear something sucking in the video I posted, but being the cover was off I don't think it was creating enough vacuum to suck any oil.  I just bought a new smaller PCV valve and rather then a catch can I ran the house out the back of the fender.  I'm going to fire up the bike and take a short trip as soon as I finish this oil change.  I'm sick of cleaning oil off of everything, that's for sure.

Scottie

It isn't really possible to check the pump with its cover off. All you can do with the cover off is to check for damage, or seating, or binding. It needs the spring pressure to make it work correctly, and since it's a double-acting pump, half the pumping action would be prevented by having the cover off. The pumping should be checked at the outlet line.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 02:48:39 PM by ace.cafe »
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ERC

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2013, 02:07:09 PM »
To see the return flow you have to take the oil cap off and see if it pumps out of the tube that's in the fill tube. Start the bike loosen one of the banjo fittings at tjhe head you want oil coming out if that's ok tighten the banjo then look in the oil fill tube there should be oil pumping back in to the oil tank. How does the breather set up on your bike work? They have a couple of different ways to do it. Duckbill, one way valves etc. It could be you have your breather set up improperly. Can you put a picture on with how yours is set up? Here's a picture of oil flow.  ERC
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 02:23:32 PM by ERC »
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High On Octane

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2013, 03:41:39 PM »
My set up is currently as follows; I have the breather port bolted to the side of the block, the breather port is stuffed with steel wool.  I have rubber vacuum hose coming of the breather port running back along the frame and starts to come up where the frame starts curving upwards towards the seat.  I have a small PCV valve mounted vertically on the small upward porting of the frame and another section of rubber hose that runs out the back of the bike along the fender.

I finished the oil change last night and put in 2 3/4 qts of oil in the case, the oil was about half way between the marks on the oil stick.  Start the bike and it starts pouring blue smoke out of the right exhaust pipe.  Check the oil level and oil is gurgling out of the oil fill!  WTF?!  Drain some oil back out to the proper level.  Start the bike again, check the breather tube and sufficient air was escaping, so I go for a short ride.  Within a 1.5 miles the PCV was forced closed with oil so I come back home.  Drained 2 ounces of oil out of the primary again, check the level on the stick and the oil is barely on it again.  Out of curiosity I pulled the breather attachment off of the block to see just to what exactly is going on.  I ran the bike for 5 seconds and this is the mess it made.



I'm beginning to think that the oil passage from the crankcase back to the pump is clogged.  Even the oil return spout is not putting out nearly as much oil as it did when I first started diagnosing the bike several months ago.

What is my next step to try and fix this???

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

ace.cafe

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 03:55:40 PM »
My first move would be to remove the stuffing of steel wool out of the breather port. It's not a good place for it.
Make sure that rubber vacuum hose is at least 5/16" I.D. tube.
Remove the PCV valve, and put a duckbill on the hose, or just get a small gatorade bottle and put two holes in the top, and run the breather hose into it, so it works as a catch can. Then get a duckbill on it when you can.
The catch can allows you to see what's blowing out, and not make a mess all over the bike. Zip-tie it to a frame member somewhere out of the way, temporarily.

Also, definitely check for the oil return system issues too.
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High On Octane

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2013, 04:26:53 PM »
My first move would be to remove the stuffing of steel wool out of the breather port. It's not a good place for it.
Make sure that rubber vacuum hose is at least 5/16" I.D. tube.
Remove the PCV valve, and put a duckbill on the hose, or just get a small gatorade bottle and put two holes in the top, and run the breather hose into it, so it works as a catch can. Then get a duckbill on it when you can.
The catch can allows you to see what's blowing out, and not make a mess all over the bike. Zip-tie it to a frame member somewhere out of the way, temporarily.

Also, definitely check for the oil return system issues too.

That's basically how I had it set up before the the PCV valve installed.  My problem is the oil is literally pouring out of the crank breather.  LITERALLY.  It doesn't matter how I have it set up, it just pours out of the breather.  For what ever reason the oil isn't being sucked back into the oil tank.

My Previous Set Up That Poured Oil Everywhere


Scottie
Scottie J
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1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2013, 04:30:15 PM »
Just for the record, and the lubrication diagram posted by ERC will confirm - the rocker oil feed comes from the feed pump on the twins, not the return, as on the Bullets, so don't slacken off the rocker feed unions to check for scavenge flow - it will be coming from the feed pump instead.

ERC

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2013, 04:38:57 PM »
Ace is on the money here get rid of the steel wool. What you are pumping out the breather is whats trapped in the crankcase. I'd do what Ace says and put a bottle on it till you empty most of the oil out of there. A duckbill is what you want or the proper plate and stops that bolt to the side of the block. If you get most of the oil out of the crankcase. And have a good breather on there it should pull the oil out of the crank and put it back in the oil tank.If it doesn't pump it back into the oil tank with everything set up properly then your return is blocked or not working. On some motors you can drain the crankcase if you have the screw in the picture I'll include. If it doesn't have this then you'll have to run it out.   ERC
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 04:47:22 PM by ERC »
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ERC

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2013, 06:15:15 PM »
Here's pictures of the breathers they used. You must have one of these setups. ERC
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High On Octane

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2013, 07:06:48 PM »
I think I figured out the problem.  I pulled the timing cover and there was a piece of silicone lodged in 1 of the return ports.  Also I noticed that all the holes in the timing cover gasket for the return ports were not lined up correctly and only about half of the holes were exposed, so I drilled out the holes in the gasket so they flowed properly.  I have the bike idling right now and it doesn't seem like there's any oil coming out of the back of the bike.  Where can I find a duck bill?

Scottie
Scottie J
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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2013, 07:46:44 PM »
I think I figured out the problem.  I pulled the timing cover and there was a piece of silicone lodged in 1 of the return ports.  Also I noticed that all the holes in the timing cover gasket for the return ports were not lined up correctly and only about half of the holes were exposed

Scottie
Glad you got it sorted, scottie. as I said earlier, it's not unheard of and I wonder if some of these machines ever changed hands on the cheap because of it. The smallest bit of crap will block that area off and stop the oil returning, but at least it's not too hard to sort it.
 B.W.

High On Octane

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2013, 08:21:46 PM »
Just rode around the neighborhood keeping the RPMs up in lower gears.  Held my hand over the breather tube at like 4500RPMs or so and almost no blue by at all, good pressure coming out but no oil, just a slight mist.  Plus after I checked the oil again after I rode I gained about a half qt of oil in the crank case which indicates the pump is working like it should again.  Thanks for everyones help.

Scottie
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

ERC

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2013, 09:49:44 PM »
Scottie, You could call CMW they may have one Hitchcocks has them #41224 breather tube.   ERC
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RoyalDetroit

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2013, 06:27:40 PM »
Well at least you rustproofed your bike Scotty. ;-)
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bullethead63

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Re: Return Oil Pump Replacement
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 01:14:15 AM »
You can also buy them on eBay,by the 10 pack,for the price of one,if you don't mind waiting for them to come from Chennai...that's what I do,and Vintage Auto Spares has always had good prices,and quality products...glad you got her sorted out!
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