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Author Topic: 4 speed inner cover removal  (Read 873 times)

Afro Samurai

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4 speed inner cover removal
« on: July 25, 2013, 04:46:57 PM »
Man...this thing is stuck on good...any tricks?

I have been heating it with heat gun...will rotate..but just wont separate...all fasteners are off...main shaft nut is off...

No good prying positions..been hammering fron opposite side jus behind the fill plug...no luck....stupid cover....

Removed kick shaft retaining bolt by mistake...didnt need to...apparently I have some design change pete snidal spoke about...but removed the bolt before I read that statement...nithing feels jamed...main shaft actually moved in and out...stupid cover just wont come off...

2001 4 speed...

ERC

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 04:55:59 PM »
Are you sure you have all the screws out ? There's one behind the shift mechanism.  ERC
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t120rbullet

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 05:40:28 PM »
Are you sure you have all the screws out ? There's one behind the shift mechanism.  ERC

That flat head that gets a glop of grease on it and you can't see it.
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
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Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 05:56:38 PM »
Yep...got that one also ....hmmmm...bigger hammer?...more heat?...mainshaft moves indep of the bearing...so it isnt stuuck there....im lost

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 07:04:49 PM »
Pic....

t120rbullet

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 08:09:04 PM »
Pic....

Looks like your there. Maybe someone put some gasket sealer on there and glued it on.
Try a pry bar and a small block of wood off the frame rail. That casting will bend and/or crack pretty easy so don't get too aggressive on it.
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5 Classic "G2" "SOLD"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 10:21:25 PM »
STOP!!!!!!! Do not bash anything with the hammer.  You must unscrew the detent plunger.....to do this loosen the lock nut, then count the number of half-turns of the screw plunger.  The screw of the detent plunger threads into the gearbox case and that is what is holding inner cover onto the case.  By counting the number of half turns, you will be able to correctly adjust the preload when you put the box back together. 

Get Petes manual and follow the instructions he has.

Or you can log onto the Hitchcock tech section and there is a 5 part description for the Albion gearbox rebuild. I believe part 3 has the description of the removal procedure for the detent plunger and inner cover. (http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/technical-notes)

(see picture 9 of part three of the gearbox rebuild).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 01:28:47 PM by mrunderhill1975a »

Arizoni

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 10:35:12 PM »
Is that the screw with the locknut on it that I see in the upper right in the picture?
Jim
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mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 10:59:41 PM »
Yes, that is it in the upper right side. See the photo below.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 11:12:45 PM by mrunderhill1975a »

t120rbullet

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 05:06:08 AM »
STOP!!!!!!! Do not bash anything with the hammer.  You must unscrew the detent plunger.....to do this loosen the lock nut, then count the number of half-turns of the screw plunger.  The screw of the detent plunger threads into the gearbox case and that is what is holding inner cover onto the case.  By counting the number of half turns, you will be able to correctly adjust the preload when you put the box back together. 

Duh,, talk about not being able to see the trees through the forest.
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2009 Royal Enfield Black G5 Classic "G2" "SOLD"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 01:22:10 PM »
Ha ha...   thanks...I must have missed that statement...I will try it in a few mins...and give an update...you guys are the best...prevented a major foul up...slow and steady...

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 01:33:14 PM »
Ok  mr underhill...froto...you saved my marriage....where do I send your ring?...ha..ha...thanks for the help...can crack on now...

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2013, 02:52:48 PM »
Small crack at thin section on inner cover bearing location...anything to be concerned about?..noticed it after removing all the grease...maybe during factory install....seems so small....moving forward..
..

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2013, 03:09:32 PM »
Hmmm........"anything to worry about"....Hmmmm.  Below the crack there appears to be a wedge of metal missing, is that true or is that an optical illusion?

After looking at it more closely, I see that the wedge portion is where the shift lever (where it attaches to the ratchet mechanism) smacks the bearing holder during a violent quick-speed up-shift.  It looks as if the crack is from the outside in toward the bearing rather than from the bearing trying to break free from the bearing seat.  If you are not planning on racing this bike, I would just leave the crack alone and monitor it each time you replace a kick start spring or kick start pawl.

Send that ring to fires of Mount Doom!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 03:25:58 PM by mrunderhill1975a »

ROVERMAN

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 03:47:06 PM »
Possibly a light smidge of JB Weld?

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2013, 03:54:14 PM »
Cool....i got the case clean enough to eat out of...

Question is ..i can go one of two ways with this...remove engine abd trans together now...or completesealed bearing install with eng and trans still in the frame....

Do they have to be removed?..to complete this sealed bearing kit?...

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 03:57:19 PM »
Empty case

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 04:16:51 PM »
Better pic

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 04:19:05 PM »
Old kick pawl is chipped...good thing I got a new one...

Arizoni

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 04:30:18 PM »
If you have an electric drill and a very small drill bit you can keep the crack from continuing into the uncracked area by using the "stop drill" process.

You would need a drill bit that is about 2 mm or 5/64 inch in diameter up to maybe 3.5mm (.138 inch) max.
Carefully find the end of the crack and drill a hole thru the wall so the hole completely removes the crack and is cutting uncracked material.

Without doing this, cracks like this have exceedingly high stresses at the end so the crack will continue to grow in length.

Degreasing the area and filling the stop drilled hole with a slow hardening (extra strong)  epoxy can also be useful to keep the area from developing more cracks.

Don't do this if it means drilling thru the wall of the gearbox to the outside of the case.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 04:32:29 PM by Arizoni »
Jim
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Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 05:00:23 PM »
Thanks arizoni...the crack already goes into the radius out in towards the meat of the case...thin..but to get ahead of it..i would be drilling in the acreage...only got 1300 on the bike...never been into that I can tell...will just have to keep an eye on it...wont be racing...ha....

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2013, 05:14:56 PM »
You should be able to fit the sealed bearing with the engine and gearbox attached to the frame,  You will just need a suitable size drift (like a 1.5 inch socket) to remove the drive side main bearing.

Reinstalling the bearing would require a drift that does not foul the gear operator selector lever shown in your photo.  I would recommend splashing boiling hot water on the case just prior to installing the frozen bearing you have strategically placed in a sandwich bag in the freezer.  Don't let the wife find it in the bearing in the freezer, that just leads to trouble.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 05:26:20 PM by mrunderhill1975a »

Arizoni

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2013, 07:46:16 PM »
As far as reinstalling things like bearings if one has something like a socket that is close to the same size as the outer race to use against the bearing, a pretty simple press can be made out of a length of threaded steel stock, a couple of hexagon nuts that is the same thread size and a short piece of 1/4 inch or thicker, flat steel bar.
The threaded stock should be as large as possible but still fit thru the square drive on the socket.

Drill a hole thru the short steel bar that clears the threaded rod.

To use this, place the flat steel bar on the far side of the bearing boss with the threaded rod and a nut thru it, the boss, the bearing and the socket.
Put the other hex nut on the threaded rod so it rests against the top of the socket.

Tightening the hex nut will force the bearing into the liner without pounding on it.

If a 3/8 inch threaded rod was used with 18 ft/lbs of torque on the nut a force of over 3000 pounds will be driving the bearing in place.

If a high quality threaded rod was used so the torque could be increased to 28 foot pounds and it was oiled, the pressure it would generate would be over 5900 pounds.
Jim
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Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2013, 06:59:41 AM »
Got the new bearings in the case...had to put more heat on it and use a threaded rod, washers, nuts and a big socket to fashon the press as suggested....all went together smooth...need about 4 hands to get gear set back in....

Few times I wondered how it ever came out..
Then I noticed I was missing the distance washer for the main shaft...so got it ordered ...finally installed it last night...got the shift mechanisms all in place and the cover buttoned up...

I worked through the gears manually...and the neutral finder.. All seems to work...but may be in for some adjustment nightmares ahead since I didnt mark the position of the shifter plate befor disassembling all that madness...not that it shifted all that great before anyway...

Next is just piecing all the left side primary stuff , clutch alt chains etc....and go for a test...

Got updated clutch springs..roller clutch throwout bearing ( cant remem proper name)...

will see how it all goes...i miss riding it....

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2013, 07:51:16 PM »
Got primary case on...clutch basket in and all the clutches....

Question...the outer stop plate with the 3 bolts... that holds the springs..how far in should it be tightened?...i dont think the springs should be collapsed....left my manual at work...cant seem to find any info on it in my various pdf docs..i like paper ...

ERC

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2013, 09:23:03 PM »
If your talking about the clutch the bolts holding it should be tightened all the way.  ERC
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Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2013, 08:02:02 PM »
Yeah...something is goofed...its like all tye adjustment is out on my clutch...seems like when I tightened those bolts..there was no more travel in the springs...only thing I changed other than putting the sealed bearing kit was that I added that roller throwout bearing...I am begining to wonder if it is the proper length...or did that addition make the ball bearing obsolete?...

I will take some pics...and look again at that new part vs the old...I am on travel...will have updates fri eve or sat morning...hope to be riding over the holidays...all thats left after this adjustment is alt and topping off fluids...then the whole adjusting the clutch further and sorting any shifting issues I may have created....

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2013, 08:21:46 PM »
Go to the other side of the bike, open the small cover above the kick start shaft, you will see a lock nut on a slotted screw.  Loosen the lock nut and back the screw out a few turns, see if that gives you some play in clutch springs.  Report back here with results.

Afro Samurai

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2013, 05:55:57 PM »
Well it was an adjustment issue...got it all together...rides good...definitely shifts better...need to adjust shift lever location...

Noticed that in neutral...there is a slight buzz...my mind visualizes the kick sprag slightly rubbing the teeth tips...is that possible ?....

Also...my kick lever doesnt return to full up position unkess you do a complete kick through...cant remember if it was like that before...

Did a 50 mile ride..and overall I am quite surprised that by dumb luck the neutral fall into place perfectly...so I see no need to adjust that plate...goes through the gears perfectly...will see how long that remains the case

No more leaks other than the normal brit amount from primary cover...need to replace that big oring...

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: 4 speed inner cover removal
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2013, 08:31:34 PM »
The buzz in neutral is common, it is the kick start pawl clicking on each tooth of the gear. 

The kick lever needs to be adjusted so the spring brings it to the location you feel is most comfortable,